Why should I be a Mormon?

[2ndRateMind]

So, in another thread, now taken down by the moderators, I gave two reasons why I should not be a Mormon.

Reason #1. I like diversity. I like differences of opinion. It seems to me it saves us from 'group think', the phenomenon where no one notices a mistake, because everyone is making the same mistake.

Reason #2. Even within the Christian tradition, I am sure all Anglicans would prefer we were all Anglican, all Catholics that we were all Catholic, all Jehovah's witnesses that we were all Jehovah's witnesses, all Quakers that we were all Quaker, etc. How to choose among them all? So, for the moment, until persuaded otherwise, I am quite content to remain a simple Christian, who loves God, and His world, and His children, without partiality, bias or favourites.

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited May 13, 2018 by 2ndRateMind

[Fether]

5 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, in another thread, now taken down by the moderators, I gave two reasons why I should not be a Mormon.

Reason #1. I like diversity. I like differences of opinion. It seems to me it saves us from 'group think', the phenomenon where no one notices a mistake, because everyone is making the same mistake.

Reason #2. Even within the Christian tradition, I am sure all Anglicans would prefer we were all Anglican, all Catholics that we were all Catholic, all Jehovah's witnesses that we were all Jehovah's witnesses, all Quakers that we were all Quaker, etc. But, for the moment, until persuaded otherwise, I am quite content to remain a simple Christian, who loves God, and His world, and His children, without partiality, bias or favourites.

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Here, read this... https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

[Fether]

14 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

We were not trained to argue or convince, but to show and lead people to the one true gospel. One of the greatest lessons I learned on my mission that took a lot of stress away was the lesson that no matter how badly God or we want everyone to be saved, there are tons of people who just won’t because of choice

Edited May 13, 2018 by Fether

[Grunt]

10 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, in another thread, now taken down by the moderators, I gave two reasons why I should not be a Mormon.

Reason #1. I like diversity. I like differences of opinion. It seems to me it saves us from 'group think', the phenomenon where no one notices a mistake, because everyone is making the same mistake.

Reason #2. Even within the Christian tradition, I am sure all Anglicans would prefer we were all Anglican, all Catholics that we were all Catholic, all Jehovah's witnesses that we were all Jehovah's witnesses, all Quakers that we were all Quaker, etc. But, for the moment, until persuaded otherwise, I am quite content to remain a simple Christian, who loves God, and His world, and His children, without partiality, bias or favourites.

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Great questions.  

1.  LDS isn't group think.  It's Christ's restored church and following Him.  You'd be amazed at how UN-group think LDS is.  Christ's Church is guided by revelation through the Prophet and our personal lives are enhanced through pondering the Scripture and personal revelation.  Sit in on a casual doctrine conversation.  I think you'd be surprised.   

2.  By remaining a "Simple Christian" you're doing great.  We believe there is truth in most religions.  We just have the fullness of the restored gospel.  When I was a "simple Christian" I believed as you did.  Through faith, study, and prayer my knowledge of Christ and His Church grew.  
 

Sorry, though, I'm a crappy evangelist.  My chosen ministerial style is to be the best example I can.  I probably fail miserably at that, too. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Grunt

[2ndRateMind]

3 minutes ago, Fether said:

Here, read this... https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

Uh huh. That seems to me to be one heck of a lot of reading, when I am simply looking for a rational, straightforward, direct, reason.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Reason #1. I like diversity. I like differences of opinion.

LDS folks aren't clones of each other.  You do get diverse opinions on a number of subjects.  Other subjects, you'll get a unanimous response-- like "hey is it ok if I go around randomly killing people?".      

3 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Reason #2. Even within the Christian tradition, I am sure all Anglicans would prefer we were all Anglican, all Catholics that we were all Catholic, all Jehovah's witnesses that we were all Jehovah's witnesses, all Quakers that we were all Quaker, etc.

Of course. 

3 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

But, for the moment, until persuaded otherwise, I am quite content to remain a simple Christian, who loves God, and His world, and His children, without partiality, bias or favourites.

And LDS respect your right to believe what you believe-- 100% of the way.

As to the "picking favorites", LDS don't view anything that way.  Rather, for me, I am LDS because I find this to be the most True Church.  Hence, I go where Christ tells me to go.  Christ doesn't tell me the same about Anglicans (though I have attended Anglican services).

3 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Dude, you're going about this all wrong.   You don't ask MAN to persuade you.  You ask GOD to testify of Truth and listen to what He says.  

 

LDS folks can explain beliefs to you, our tell of our own experiences, but the only Truth witness you're going to find is the divine Spirit of God.  

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Christ's sheep hear his voice. Honestly investigate the Church. If it resonates with you, if you receive revelation, then you will know what to do. If you're not willing to honestly investigate, so be it.

I have zero interest in persuading you to join the Church. The wording of your challenge is silly.

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Uh huh. That seems to me to be one heck of a lot of reading, when I am simply looking for a rational, straightforward, direct, reason.

Best wishes, 2RM.

That's the problem, though.  There isn't a rational, straightforward, direct, reason unless you're looking for:  Because it's the restored Church.  Because Christ said so.  Because you want to return to Heavenly Father.  Because the Book of Mormon is true.

See?  It doesn't really work like that.  You have to put in the work. How will you know the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith is the Prophet if you've never read it or studied him?   You need to act on faith.  You need to study.  You need to pray on it.  Moroni 10:3-5 tells us this.

[Fether]

5 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Uh huh. That seems to me to be one heck of a lot of reading, when I am simply looking for a rational, straightforward, direct, reason.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Well if you want to play the game, you have to follow the rules. If this is the true church, we need to follow the rules to find it out for ourself. One rule is that one must read the Book of Mormon in order to gain a testimony

The fact you are looking for man to convince you suggests to me that religion isn’t anything more than politics.

 

[2ndRateMind]

10 minutes ago, Grunt said:

That's the problem, though.  There isn't a rational, straightforward, direct, reason unless you're looking for... 

That's OK. I guess I am asking whether there is any underlying philosophical justification for your Church, rather than a purely faith determined, religious commitment.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited May 13, 2018 by 2ndRateMind

[NeuroTypical]

IMO, the most valid reason to be Mormon, is you believe God wants you to.  Absent that understanding, you might as well not be.

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, 2ndRateMind said:

That's OK. I guess I am asking whether there is any philosophical justification for your Church, rather than a purely faith determined, religious commitment.

What should we shun God in favor of the arm of flesh (aka man's philosophies)?  

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, in another thread, now taken down by the moderators, I gave two reasons why I should not be a Mormon.

Reason #1. I like diversity. I like differences of opinion. It seems to me it saves us from 'group think', the phenomenon where no one notices a mistake, because everyone is making the same mistake.

Reason #2. Even within the Christian tradition, I am sure all Anglicans would prefer we were all Anglican, all Catholics that we were all Catholic, all Jehovah's witnesses that we were all Jehovah's witnesses, all Quakers that we were all Quaker, etc. How to choose among them all? So, for the moment, until persuaded otherwise, I am quite content to remain a simple Christian, who loves God, and His world, and His children, without partiality, bias or favourites.

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Best wishes, 2RM.

This idea of "be true to yourself" as the guiding standard of right and wrong is a very old one.  It is also a very bad one. If there are no universal truths, that isn't any different from saying there are no truths.

If there are no truths, then there is no right and wrong. Without right and wrong, there is no good or evil. That leads down the path of what psychiatrists call pathological.

Amos 3:7 says "surely the Lord will do nothing, but he revealeth his secrets unto his servants the prophets."

If God's truths are so easily accessible that any half intelligent man can just figure it out, then why prophets?  And what are these "Secrets" that Amos refers to?  If prophets back then, why not today?

[Grunt]

Just now, 2ndRateMind said:

That's OK. I guess I am asking whether there is any philosophical justification for your Church, rather than a purely faith determined, religious commitment.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Ahh.  I get it.  Well, there isn't any philosophical justification for any Church.  If you're speaking of cultural benefits, I believe there are many benefits to being LDS over other religions.  Otherwise, look at the Articles of Faith or The Family Proclamation.   The very foundation of the family as the center of the Church and component of exaltation speaks very strongly of Christ's plan for us.  It's found nowhere else that I know of.

[Fether]

21 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

That's OK. I guess I am asking whether there is any underlying philosophical justification for your Church, rather than a purely faith determined, religious commitment.

Best wishes, 2RM.

. One thing I love about the church is that we tend to have answers to questions that most other churches rely on “we aren’t meant to know”. Though that answer does have a place on certain topics, we have far more knowledge and clear cut answers to the hardest questions that most Christians just rely on “we aren’t meant to know”.

I feel like our approach to God’s commandments also tends to feel more logical than most guidance from other churches

[Just_A_Guy]

40 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Uh huh. That seems to me to be one heck of a lot of reading, when I am simply looking for a rational, straightforward, direct, reason.

Best wishes, 2RM.

If you aren’t into studying and really wrestling for answers, then you probably shouldn’t be a Mormon.  

Mormonism is all about tapping into God’s power improving yourself through study and prayer and hard work; and through that process becoming a person who is more useful to the service of others. 

If you aren’t willing to change, and prefer a religion/philosophy that will validate you as you are without expecting you to become something better—well, as Mormons we aren’t going to tell you to go away; but you probably won’t be happy with us for very long.  

Edited May 13, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Grunt]

8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

If you aren’t into studying and really wrestling for answers, then you probably shouldn’t be a Mormon.  

Mormonism is all about tapping into God’s power improving yourself through study and prayer and hard work; and through that process becoming a person who is more useful to the service of others. 

If you aren’t willing to change, and prefer a religion/philosophy that will validate you as you are without expecting you to become something better—well, as Mormons we aren’t going to tell you to go away; but you probably won’t be happy with us for very long.  

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really disagree with this statement.  I've met many Mormons who have been members much longer and aren't into studying.  When they wrestle for answers they ask questions and receive answers from those that do know.  They love the Church, love the gospel, and love the people.  Do they have the same knowledge as others?  Probably not, but they are faithful, active members of the Church who only add to our ward.  

[BeccaKirstyn]

58 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

 

Not how it works. If you're humble and prayerful, you can find answers. If you're looking to argue, be prideful, and fight "reason" with "faith", you don't have the right mindset or heart to find the answers. A broken heart and contrite spirit is the type of vessel that is perfect for revealing light and truth. Something that I don't think you at the moment have, but everyone is capable of coming to if they desire it. 

[Just_A_Guy]

18 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really disagree with this statement.  I've met many Mormons who have been members much longer and aren't into studying.  When they wrestle for answers they ask questions and receive answers from those that do know.  They love the Church, love the gospel, and love the people.  Do they have the same knowledge as others?  Probably not, but they are faithful, active members of the Church who only add to our ward.  

I agree with you somewhat—certainly most Mormons aren’t going to eat, breathe, and live the Journal of Discourses or be up on late-breaking Mormon scriptural or historical scholarship.  

On the other hand, if you’re the sort of person that says “OK, Mormons, hit me with your best shot” and then in the next breath straight-up say you can’t be bothered to take a serious look at that religion’s holy writ—methinks that level of apathy and willful ignorance is not in harmony with Mormon ideals or Mormon culture.  

[2ndRateMind]

12 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I agree with you somewhat—certainly most Mormons aren’t going to eat, breathe, and live the Journal of Discourses or be up on late-breaking Mormon scriptural or historical scholarship.  

On the other hand, if you’re the sort of person that says “OK, Mormons, hit me with your best shot” and then in the next breath straight-up say you can’t be bothered to take a serious look at that religion’s holy writ—methinks that level of apathy and willful ignorance is not in harmony with Mormon ideals or Mormon culture.  

Hmmm. If you asked me why I am a Christian, I would say simply that I have a far better quality of life loving God, His World, and His children, then ever I did as a self-centred atheist. I am merely looking for this kind of summary justification from you, for your denomination.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited May 13, 2018 by 2ndRateMind

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Hmmm. If you asked me why I am a Christian, I would say simply that I have a far better quality of life loving God, His World, and His children, then ever I did as a self-centred atheist. I am simply looking for this kind of summary justification from you, for your denomination.

If cultural / my-life benefits are what you're looking for, @Grunt got you a pretty good answer--

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

.  If you're speaking of cultural benefits, I believe there are many benefits to being LDS over other religions.  Otherwise, look at the Articles of Faith or The Family Proclamation.   The very foundation of the family as the center of the Church and component of exaltation speaks very strongly of Christ's plan for us.  It's found nowhere else that I know of.

Speaking personally, I'm not LDS for the cultural benefits or benefits to my life (though they certainly are nice).  Rather, I am here because Christ tells me to be here.  

[Grunt]

11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

If cultural / my-life benefits are what you're looking for, @Grunt got you a pretty good answer--

Speaking personally, I'm not LDS for the cultural benefits or benefits to my life (though they certainly are nice).  Rather, I am here because Christ tells me to be here.  

But to your point, I was initially moved to investigate LDS by the culture.    Focus on family.  Service.  Prepping.  Unashamed adherence to Scripture.  ALL of those things give me a MUCH better quality of life than typical Christian religions.  Mostly due to the expectation of adherence to these values and the joint effort and support toward that end.   

From that initial interest I was drawn to learn WHY those things are cultural, which led me to membership.  

[Just_A_Guy]

51 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Hmmm. If you asked me why I am a Christian, I would say simply that I have a far better quality of life loving God, His World, and His children, then ever I did as a self-centred atheist. I am merely looking for this kind of summary justification from you, for your denomination.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Your original post stated:

Quote

So, I know many of you to be familiar with, and trained in, evangelical (missionary) techniques and arguments. Now is your chance. Persuade me I am wrong to be uncommitted to any specific denomination, and yours in particular.

Then you jumped all over @Fether because he assumed you were sincere; even though you had initially said nothing about how it had to all fit into a thirty-second sound byte.  

The fact is, evangelization can’t be done without education.  Now if, I had asked why you were a Christian and you had replied to me asking why you follow your religion by saying “JAG, it’s complicated.  Here’s a New Testament.  Why don’t you start reading?”; and I had replied “pbbbbbbt, that’s WAY stop much reading for me!”—

—well, you’d be quite right to suspect me of being an insincere dilettante who had no intention of converting to your religion regardless of the quality of your arguments or the skill of your technique.  

Constructive dialogue is always great; but when it comes to evangelization (as opposed to mere dialogue):  Part of the super-secret-Mormon technique, is developing a sense for when someone’s just yanking your chain.  

Edited May 13, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[estradling75]

In the thread now removed 15 pages where spent... Using "Logic" and "Reason" arguing and debating and neither side moved the other so much as an inch.  Seems a rather weaksauce way to figure out what God would have you do.

The LDS position is that God offers a "More excellent way."  Namely ask him.  Yes study and reason are good and important parts, but if you aren't going to get on your knees and ask him, you miss having the personal relationship he offers.  And if you do not have a personal relationship with Christ can you really consider yourself a Christian?

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Hmmm. If you asked me why I am a Christian, I would say simply that I have a far better quality of life loving God, His World, and His children, then ever I did as a self-centred atheist.

I'm not sure if you see the irony here.  The irony is that you are still a self-centered atheist.  You only care about how things benefit you right here, right now.  These were your own words.  All you've done is changed your own personal rules of how to satisfy that self-centered ideology.

If you want to backtrack a bit or expound, then please do so.  But it seems that you don't care about the afterlife.  You don't care about God or what he wants or any wisdom he has to offer you for eternity -- only what wisdom he has for here and now.

You probably won't want to join this faith.  Being a Mormon requires a LOT of sacrifice.  You have to put the Lord's will before your own.  You have to care about the truth above your immediate benefits.  You need to be willing to accept the truth above all else even if it might damn you.  Accept the truth and you should absolutely become a Mormon.  But if you only care about your own benefits here and now, then being a Mormon simply isn't for you.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Guest