STILL FLAWED!!

[dellme]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Maybe your neck of the woods can't fulfill laws.  I don't see this.  In my neck of the woods Church membership is expanding so fast that we are the only country outside of Utah that is about to get 2 Temples within 20 miles of each other.  We don't have ladies that get up in SS and berates her Stake Presidency over homosexual marriage.  Divorce is illegal here, let alone SS marriages...

You misunderstood my usage of "rigid laws".  Less rigidity doesn't mean less strict.  They don't correlate.

The Church means - the Church as a whole, not each individual within the Church.  When the Church teaches homosexual marriage is a great thing, then the Church has "devolved".  The Church is BETTER. 

Rigid vs. strict.  You are parsing words, that's fine, I don't care to get into it, we can agree to disagree.

I understand in your neck of the woods Church membership is expanding.  That's fantastic, it really is.  But that does not correlate with the overall percentage growth. The Church's growth is the lowest it's been since the early 1900s. Granted it appears to be growing much faster than it really it. 1.8% growth of 16 million is a greater quantity than 8% of 1 million, but it is still much, much slower growth.

And while the Church doesn't directly teach homosexual marriage is a great thing-there are certainly men in leadership positions (or former leadership positions-mostly at the Bishop level) who definitely advocate for it (and very little is done to them). Don't worry, the war is coming.

I definitely think the new program is needed and is better for our times.  My main point being that just b/c it is better for our times doesn't mean we as a people or Church are better-those are two totally different things. And to say that we are a better people vs 15 years ago and we are so much more righteous and b/c of that God gave us this program, it is really pride and hubris talking, it really is.

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, dellme said:

Rigid vs. strict.  You are parsing words, that's fine, I don't care to get into it, we can agree to disagree.

I understand in your neck of the woods Church membership is expanding.  That's fantastic, it really is.  But that does not correlate with the overall percentage growth. The Church's growth is the lowest it's been since the early 1900s. Granted it appears to be growing much faster than it really it. 1.8% growth of 16 million is a greater quantity than 8% of 1 million, but it is still much, much slower growth.

And while the Church doesn't directly teach homosexual marriage is a great thing-there are certainly men in leadership positions (or former leadership positions-mostly at the Bishop level) who definitely advocate for it (and very little is done to them). Don't worry, the war is coming.

I definitely think the new program is needed and is better for our times.  My main point being that just b/c it is better for our times doesn't mean we as a people or Church are better-those are two totally different things. And to say that we are a better people vs 15 years ago and we are so much more righteous and b/c of that God gave us this program, it is really pride and hubris talking, it really is.

Meh.  I think you got some chip over homosexuality.  But, that's just the vibe I get from your posts.

[dellme]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Meh.  I think you got some chip over homosexuality.  But, that's just the vibe I get from your posts.

No, I don't, but I used that as a counter-point to your idea that the Church is "better" and that as a people we are "better" than 15 years ago.

Another example, we are a "better" people when individuals don't trust the Bishop to interview their teenage child?

They changed Bishop's interviews so parents can be in the interview with their child.  Except that statistically speaking, sexual abuse in the Church is no worse now than 20 years ago, what has changed?  Parents don't trust the Bishop. I hardly count that as a "better" people when you can't even trust the Bishop.

The Church changed the way they do things with interviews, great.  It wasn't done b/c we are such a special people that we are ready for a "higher" law, it was done b/c forces within the Church (and/or society at large) necessitated that it be done.  The exact same thing with HT/VT. The exact same thing with Priesthood Session. "Higher law", or "better" people or more "enlightened" people or more righteous people has nothing to do with it.

Edited May 22, 2018 by dellme

[Anddenex]

On 5/21/2018 at 12:11 AM, priesthoodpower said:

The "tweak" in Ministering should be one in where us as individual members report back an interaction we had with ANY of the ward members (male/female/young/old) during the month. And it shouldnt be limited to our ward only, include the stake and maybe even any LDS member. We are a worldwide church connected through the internet, why cant we be an influence and example to all. 

When the subject of ministering was mentioned in GC my first thoughts is that the system would be similar to this, then when more information was given I realized the following:

1) If people only ministered to "all" with no assignment many members would fall through the cracks (as mentioned by others already)

2) If you think the concept of "Ministering" as is being taught by the brethren and moving forward is only to those you are assigned to, then we are indeed missing the mark.

3) I recognize the similarities between "Home Teaching" and "Ministering," but if you are having a hard time distinguishing between the focal change as to what is most important, then I would encourage that you pray fervently to have your mind and heart softened to see the overall big picture that is being taught.

Here is one principle: The Lord is not waiting for the world to get more wicked to come. The Lord is waiting for us to become a Zion people before he comes. This is one constant principle that is being clearly made known in training. There are others.

[wenglund]

10 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

I am part of the 82% of familys in my stake that dont like HTers coming over to my house, nor me going over to others homes (for one of many reasons).

 

 

I suppose there is some comfort derived from knowing that you are supposedly among the vast majority of members who believe the gospel is all about doing only what you like. 

Quote

You are part of the 18% (or what ever it is in your stake) that fulfill the HT calling and see no problems with the program.

No. I am just someone who is hesitant to steady the ark, and who humbly trusts in God and his use of imperfect people and programs, believing that through obedience, and a willingness to do good even in unpleasant circumstances, we all will be the better for it.

Quote

Have you ever come to think that younger familys in various parts of the world cant afford a 1700 sq foot house..have a family of 5 living in a 900 sq ft 2bd/1bath apt that is so intimate that having visitors over has become a foreign idea. You probably have a 2000 sq ft home with two large family rooms perfect for hosting and entertaining guests.

While I can probably give you a run for your money in the Woes Olympics, that isn't my style.

However,  I can tell you that my first convert baptism on my mission was a family of 6, who lived in a two room shack that was less than 200 sq ft, with wooden pallets as flooring (parts of which were stained with spilled milk and flies crawling all over it), and a small tattered couch and four wobbly kitchen chairs. Yet, somehow there was enough room in the main area for them to eagerly invite two terribly naive and anxious elders into their home to receive the blessings of the gospel.

Granted, even as humble as their circumstances were, it was likely a step above the birthplace of the Savior, wherein shepherd and wise men alike gathered along with the lowing cattle.

Far be it from me, though, to deny you your excuses for circumventing the second great commandment, and to point the finger of blame elsewhere. Because, obviously, 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[bytebear]

My mother was on a general board in the 70s, with the express mission to reach out to people who had fallen through the cracks.  She helped implement prison ministries, find people on the rolls who hadn't been to church in a while, or who had moved.  The minister program I feel, needs to be about reaching out to people who aren't recognized by the members on any given Sunday.  The bishop probably doesn't even know all of the members on the rolls, let alone the members who have moved into an area but are so inactive that they won't have their records forwarded. 

And I do think we need to incorporate our socializing with inactives and non-members in mind.  We seem to have lots of church activities that would be great for non-members to attend, but no one ever hears about them. 

• Trunk or Treat is pretty popular here, but only active ward members know about it.
• Bar-b-ques.
• Church grounds clean up day (which could be coordinated with other churches, and we all get together and clean up each others yards).
• Firesides. Seems I only hear about the ones where someone famous is involved, which is fine, but shouldn't we have uplifting and inspiring events, even if they aren't directly church related?
• Relief Society quilting and crafting.  Sorry if this sounds anti-feminist, but this was huge when I was a kid, and I think it's a great way to socialize.  Even as a small kid, it was fun to get together with the other kids who also were stuck hanging out with mom.
• Church basketball
• Roadshows
• Scouting (although we'll see what that evolves into).
• Stake dances

Every church has a cultural center, and the older ones had a full stage, meant to put on uplifting and entertaining programs, but not just for the ward members.  The early church didn't have ward buildings like that. They had tabernacles, which was kind of like a super stake center, but as we have grown, we now have individual chapels, that act as a multipurpose building.  The cultural hall was the best part of church when I was a kid.  It was the social center of church life.   I think we need to bring that back and expand it.  Every non-member should know that the Mormons have it going on!  And they should know they are welcome to our functions.  I feel, especially in less LDS centric areas, this just isn't done.   I want our churches to be community hives of activity, for both members and non-members alike.   There are many people who don't want to attend church on Sunday but are longing for community outreach and not getting it.

Edited May 22, 2018 by bytebear

[Connie]

I prefer the way it is. I think it helps to combat the normal isolation and cliquishness you get when groups of people get together. You have those members who really isolate themselves, the members who are very friendly with everyone, and the members who stay within their own little clique and never branch out as just a regular kind of “way things are.” I think that would be exacerbated if people are left to themselves. Having an assignment is a stretch for both the person assigned and the person they are assigned to. It causes people to get out of their comfort zone and to interact with someone they wouldn’t normally and find the good in that person. It means putting yourself out there, being vulnerable, and letting people see the good in you. It’s very humbling.

That’s not always an easy thing. Believe me; I get it. I am what I like to refer to as an introverted introvert. I had the wonderful opportunity of being partnered with my mother for several years. She has the same quiet, introverted disposition that I do. I learned so much by getting to watch how she ministered. It really is the little things that go the longest way, and it was never fake though I'm sure there were some who thought so. It tends to be a big part of human nature that we make the most ungenerous assumptions about people we don't know very well rather than extending the benefit of the doubt.

[Vort]

Responding only to the thread title, and pointing a finger at no one in particular:

I don't see the utility of pointing out perceived flaws in this newly implemented program. If the flaws are not actually there, then you're guilty of not sustaining your leaders and tearing down the work of the Lord for no good reason. And if the flaws actually are there, then...you're guilty of not sustaining your leaders and tearing down the work of the Lord for no good reason.

I personally believe what our leaders have said about ministering vs. home teaching. This is a chance for us (as a Church and body of Christ) to rise up and do much better than we have done in the past. We as a people failed to implement home teaching as we ought to have done. Let's repent and get on board with ministering. It isn't just home teaching in new clothes; it's a program that tries to accomplish the same ends, but hopefully with a fresh new perspective and a foundation of sincere caring and -- dare I say it? -- ministering, rather than checkbox-filling.

[Grunt]

56 minutes ago, Vort said:

Responding only to the thread title, and pointing a finger at no one in particular:

I don't see the utility of pointing out perceived flaws in this newly implemented program. If the flaws are not actually there, then you're guilty of not sustaining your leaders and tearing down the work of the Lord for no good reason. And if the flaws actually are there, then...you're guilty of not sustaining your leaders and tearing down the work of the Lord for no good reason.

I personally believe what our leaders have said about ministering vs. home teaching. This is a chance for us (as a Church and body of Christ) to rise up and do much better than we have done in the past. We as a people failed to implement home teaching as we ought to have done. Let's repent and get on board with ministering. It isn't just home teaching in new clothes; it's a program that tries to accomplish the same ends, but hopefully with a fresh new perspective and a foundation of sincere caring and -- dare I say it? -- ministering, rather than checkbox-filling.

Some days I really love you.  

[zil]

25 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Some days I really love you.  

TMI!  TMI!!

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, zil said:

TMI!  TMI!!

I’m posting pics.  

[zil]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

I’m posting pics.  

We need a "screaming in terror" reaction icon!

[person0]

7 minutes ago, zil said:

We need a "screaming in terror" reaction icon!

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, person0 said:

15 minutes ago, zil said:

We need a "screaming in terror" reaction icon!

[person0]

47 minutes ago, Vort said:

53 minutes ago, person0 said:

1 hour ago, zil said:

We need a "screaming in terror" reaction icon!



Edited May 23, 2018 by person0
Better cultural icon

[Vort]

24 minutes ago, person0 said:

1 hour ago, Vort said:

1 hour ago, person0 said:

1 hour ago, zil said:

We need a "screaming in terror" reaction icon!



[omegaseamaster75]

On 5/20/2018 at 11:11 PM, priesthoodpower said:

(disclaimer: title is kind of a click bait)

No matter what way you slice and dice it, it is still an ASSIGNMENT! ..now its an ASSIGNMENT with out a check box.

 

Don't be naive, they will still check a box when they sit you down for your quarterly meeting and ask how many people you ministered to.

[zil]

35 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Don't be naive, they will still check a box when they sit you down for your quarterly meeting and ask how many people you ministered to.

I predict it will not be a checkbox at all, but a radio button indicating the month in which they interviewed you.  Whether they ask how many people you ministered to will be up to the interviewer, but that's not what they're supposed to ask you.

[person0]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

1 hour ago, person0 said:

2 hours ago, Vort said:

2 hours ago, person0 said:

2 hours ago, zil said:

We need a "screaming in terror" reaction icon!





[Anddenex]

1 hour ago, person0 said:

Doctor Who to rule them all

[mirkwood]

Oh cool we turned into a horror thread!!

 

I'll be back...

[mirkwood]

[wenglund]

On 5/22/2018 at 2:37 AM, priesthoodpower said:

 Im using a fake name for the specific reason to open up and be REAL without the fear of retaliation from members that may know me. If I did use my real name I would be like you, civil and proper, not ruffling any feathers and not discussing the things that we dont like to hear about within our Religion and its imperfection of the saints.

Look up my screen name on this forum and you will learn that my wife was having emotional affairs with men at the gym, my father-in-law is a pedophile, my father is a womanizer, brother is a criminal, sister a drug addict, I was addicted to porn and masterbated for 20 years. Yeah lets have all my neighbors and ward members know the finer details of my life.

In revealing all this information anonymously I have received exactly what I was praying for...much comfort and good advice to get me through some tough times.

I wasn't the one who had issues with alleged fakeness. It was you. I am perfectly fine with people posting anonymously, just as I am fine with people initially pretending to be friendly to other Ward members until the genuine Christlike love develops. There are good reasons for both.

My issue with you wasn't your use of a fake name, nor do I wish to make it my business to familiarize myself with your sordid past. Rather, my intent was to point out your inconsistency in matters of fakeness, and that bravery is not the domain of the anonymous. I would have thought this obvious given what I said, but evidently even the seemingly obvious can be misunderstood in cyberspace.

And, while I believe you are mistaken in your view of the ministering program as flawed, I understand that members of the church are at different stages of spiritual heath than others, and they have varied levels of comfort and discomfort with certain Church programs. My participation on this thread isn't to condemn people for not jumping at the chance of ministering and being ministered to, but rather it is to challenge your condemnation of the Church's program I am of the mind that whether a member ministers or not, as long as they are striving to be a better person each day, then that is great--trusting that somewhere along the line ministering will become a part of becoming a better person each day.

All the best to you.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

 

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower