2 hour church ? why so happy

[estowife]

So I am born & raised LDS & continue to be active, married in the temple (still married though not happily) & raise a family in the gospel. I always felt that religion is not my thing, not remotely interested in it, don't enjoy it & If I wasn't born into it, certainly wouldn't go looking for it...

So naturally to me the 2 hour church announcement is great news, sitting through 3 hours (or more) of church on a sunday has to be the worst 3 hours of my week!

But I am curious.... every response I have seen on various social media platforms have all been similarly pleased, excited & celebratory, nobody is disappointed to be losing an hour of church.

So I would like to know why everybody is so pleased, did people secretly hate 3 hours of church, was it just as horrendous for everybody else as it felt for me,

just curious as to why everyone is high five-ing & celebrating etc, what are your reasons

Thanks

[CV75]

3 hours ago, estowife said:

So I am born & raised LDS & continue to be active, married in the temple (still married though not happily) & raise a family in the gospel. I always felt that religion is not my thing, not remotely interested in it, don't enjoy it & If I wasn't born into it, certainly wouldn't go looking for it...

So naturally to me the 2 hour church announcement is great news, sitting through 3 hours (or more) of church on a sunday has to be the worst 3 hours of my week!

But I am curious.... every response I have seen on various social media platforms have all been similarly pleased, excited & celebratory, nobody is disappointed to be losing an hour of church.

So I would like to know why everybody is so pleased, did people secretly hate 3 hours of church, was it just as horrendous for everybody else as it felt for me,

just curious as to why everyone is high five-ing & celebrating etc, what are your reasons

Thanks

I'm sure there are many, many reasons individuals are happy with the changes. I actually know some who are a bit disappointed! Whatever their reasons for either, the explanations given for the changes are hopefully enough to help them all find happiness in realizing the intended purposes.

[The Folk Prophet]

Count me in as at least one on the disappointed list.

However, feeling disappointed in a prophet's announcement immediately puts one in a problematic position. I consider it important for me to put aside the disappointment and look for the good in it. I trust this is the Lord's will, and the Lord does good and right to bring us eternal joy. So I intentionally join the happy camp despite my natural disappointment. I can't say I'm fully there yet. But I will be.

Edited October 7, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[Colirio]

In watching the announcement and talk given, I am excited about the idea because I see it as spiritual progression.  

 

It's not really about the logistics of how many hours are spent at a meetinghouse. It's about strengthening the families by having a more Christ-centered home. 

 

If the the membership goes home after two hours and does nothing further to the gospel teaching in their home, then they will falter spiritually. If, on the other hand, the members go home and apply the new program that was outlined, then they will be blessed in greater measure than they previously were. 

 

New revelation which will strengthen families for the coming days is thrilling to me! 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, estowife said:

So I am born & raised LDS & continue to be active, married in the temple (still married though not happily) & raise a family in the gospel. I always felt that religion is not my thing, not remotely interested in it, don't enjoy it & If I wasn't born into it, certainly wouldn't go looking for it...

So naturally to me the 2 hour church announcement is great news, sitting through 3 hours (or more) of church on a sunday has to be the worst 3 hours of my week!

But I am curious.... every response I have seen on various social media platforms have all been similarly pleased, excited & celebratory, nobody is disappointed to be losing an hour of church.

So I would like to know why everybody is so pleased, did people secretly hate 3 hours of church, was it just as horrendous for everybody else as it felt for me,

just curious as to why everyone is high five-ing & celebrating etc, what are your reasons

Thanks

I'm neither.  My position prior to the announcement was that there were good arguments for keeping it as it was, shortening it, or even lengthening it.  I thought they were good arguments on all sides.

But I realized that man's logic and reason alone are not how the Lord guides his church.  And I was ready for whatever changes or lack thereof there might be.  What was presented seemed like a pretty good plan to me.

The result, however, will be a mixed bag.  We know that people already do not read the scriptures and pray regularly on their own.  On the other hand, we know many that do.  The same diligence (or lack of it) will extend into the new program.  If you're not doing FHE, you won't do the home study, and you will lose out.  If you are already doing FHE regularly, then you will continue and include this program in that practice.

It would seem that those already practicing it are already studying and doing everything at home anyway.  So, the only effect is that you have one less hour at church in order to do all the same things.  But those who were not already practicing it will now have one less hour of instruction that may have benefited them for their lack of personal study.

In the end, the Lord knows what he's doing.  So, I reckon He's got something in mind to offset any perceived negatives of the proposal.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

The three hour block was just too long for some of us. Especially those of us who, for whatever reason, don't really fit in with their ward. I'm very glad they sacked an hour from Sunday services. 
 

[MarginOfError]

Most of the complaints I've heard regarding three hour services originate from having terrible Sunday School classes. I have been fortunate enough to have great Sunday School teachers, and will rather miss the three hour block. But I've experienced some truly painful Sunday school lessons, so I can understand why some are content to see it go away.

The other large contingency of complainants comes from Primary teachers. Let's be honest--40 minutes of lesson for kids 3 - 8 is too long. Granted, very little of that time ends up being lesson time, so a lot of it is child care. This new format will reduce that child care time and probably make being a Primary teacher a lot less burdensome.

Administratively, this will help my ward a lot. We can talk find enough people to fill our teaching needs with the very low bar of having a pulse. This new format will reduce the number of lessons to be prepared to less than half of our current schedule. That means we may be able to provide all of the lessons to adults on two thirds the teaching staff and break some of our Primary classes into better sizes. 

[The Folk Prophet]

42 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If you're not doing FHE, you won't do the home study, and you will lose out. 

I hope this is not true, as the primary point of the change, it seems to me, is to get this sort of change to happen. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I hope this is not true, as the primary point of the change, it seems to me, is to get this sort of change to happen. 

We all hope.  But it would appear to be reasonable to believe this is so.  I could be wrong.

[The Folk Prophet]

23 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Most of the complaints I've heard regarding three hour services originate from having terrible Sunday School classes. I have been fortunate enough to have great Sunday School teachers, and will rather miss the three hour block. But I've experienced some truly painful Sunday school lessons, so I can understand why some are content to see it go away.

I consider this complaint invalid. Do these people, who aren't getting involved, making interesting comments themselves, etc. really think they're going to be successful at making home study interesting?

26 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

The other large contingency of complainants comes from Primary teachers. Let's be honest--40 minutes of lesson for kids 3 - 8 is too long. Granted, very little of that time ends up being lesson time, so a lot of it is child care. This new format will reduce that child care time and probably make being a Primary teacher a lot less burdensome.

This is an interesting point and probably a part of the direction. 

27 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Administratively, this will help my ward a lot. We can talk find enough people to fill our teaching needs with the very low bar of having a pulse. This new format will reduce the number of lessons to be prepared to less than half of our current schedule. That means we may be able to provide all of the lessons to adults on two thirds the teaching staff and break some of our Primary classes into better sizes. 

I think there will be wards it helps administratively and wards for which it makes things much more difficult. Some wards struggle badly to find callings for everyone who needs/wants one already. 

Of course this may make it easier to split those wards  (having more building space), so that will be interesting. 

[Anddenex]

Everyone would be considered an absolute statement, which often end up being wrong. I am one that as a little disappointed myself; however, my disappointment is irrelevant as I will happily follow what has been decided.

Elder Bednar's talk gives additional insight regarding the three hour block. Church attendance at ward building has been shortened, but we still have three or more hours of church if we are following the actual guidance given.

Here is a quote from Elder Bednar's talk, "The Sunday meeting schedule was not simply shortened, rather we have now increased opportunities and responsibilities as individuals and families to use our time for enhancing the Sabbath as a delight at home and at church."

Our church time, so to speak, has actually been extended. Our requirement to be at church has shortened, or better said our worship time on the Sabbath has been extended to the home, and we are being encouraged to make the Sabbath what it has always been intended for -- worship at home and at church.

This will be an opportunity for all of us to become truly converted, or to enhance our testimony for those who are truly converted.

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

We all hope.  But it would appear to be reasonable to believe this is so.  I could be wrong.

Perhaps. With the new home focused curriculum and other home focus efforts, perhaps not. 

[NeuroTypical]

I have encountered some young folks who are sad that there is less church.  But everyone else I've talked to is happy.

Something I haven't seen mentioned - this probably impacts the church's building planning and stake organization process.   Easier to house 3 wards in one building now with room to navigate around each other. 

Old: 9-12, 12-3, 3-6

New: 9-11, 12-2, 3-5

Edited October 7, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Fether]

45 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm neither.  My position prior to the announcement was that there were good arguments for keeping it as it was, shortening it, or even lengthening it.  I thought they were good arguments on all sides.

But I realized that man's logic and reason alone are not how the Lord guides his church.  And I was ready for whatever changes or lack thereof there might be.  What was presented seemed like a pretty good plan to me.

The result, however, will be a mixed bag.  We know that people already do not read the scriptures and pray regularly on their own.  On the other hand, we know many that do.  The same diligence (or lack of it) will extend into the new program.  If you're not doing FHE, you won't do the home study, and you will lose out.  If you are already doing FHE regularly, then you will continue and include this program in that practice.

It would seem that those already practicing it are already studying and doing everything at home anyway.  So, the only effect is that you have one less hour at church in order to do all the same things.  But those who were not already practicing it will now have one less hour of instruction that may have benefited them for their lack of personal study.

In the end, the Lord knows what he's doing.  So, I reckon He's got something in mind to offset any perceived negatives of the proposal.

I had the exact same thought.

For those that actually do what is suppose to happen there will be some really cool blessings, but for those that don’t do the home study... they are better off doing the 3 hour block that they were already attending.

Maybe this is me being pessimistic (actually this definitely is), but I see this being very successful through the honeymoon stage, but a decade from now I can see this turning into Something like home teaching or FHE, a church inspired home program that the Saints and devils alike jokingly talk about how bad we are at it.

[CV75]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

I have encountered some young folks who are sad that there is less church.  But everyone else I've talked to is happy.

Something I haven't seen mentioned - this probably impacts the church's building planning and stake organization process.   Easier to house 3 wards in one building now with room to navigate around each other. 

Old: 9-12, 12-3, 3-6

New: 9-11, 12-2, 3-5

If the families permit, this might be an opportunity for the youth to get together after church in someone's home for a Sabbath-related activity.

[Anddenex]

56 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The result, however, will be a mixed bag.  We know that people already do not read the scriptures and pray regularly on their own.  On the other hand, we know many that do.  The same diligence (or lack of it) will extend into the new program.  If you're not doing FHE, you won't do the home study, and you will lose out.  If you are already doing FHE regularly, then you will continue and include this program in that practice.

It would seem that those already practicing it are already studying and doing everything at home anyway.  So, the only effect is that you have one less hour at church in order to do all the same things.  But those who were not already practicing it will now have one less hour of instruction that may have benefited them for their lack of personal study.

In the end, the Lord knows what he's doing.  So, I reckon He's got something in mind to offset any perceived negatives of the proposal.

I think you have a true point here, and it is the same with ministering. Those in our ward who are ministering are the ones who were honorable home teachers. Since the switch I have two assigned ministers who have never reached out to me or my family. At least with home teachers I had someone reaching out to me occasionally. The whole concept of "a more genuine love and concern" is not hitting the hears of some members.

I think the same for this also; although, this is what should have been occurring all along there are some who will now only have one less hour of church and do nothing with the rest of the time. I believe we are seeing the ten virgins scenario and the wheat and the tares come full fold.

I also hope we will no longer hear, "The church was supposed to teach my children...." This was never to be the case. True teaching happens in the home. Supported teaching at church. We are now progressing toward this even further, which is why Elder Bednar's talk was extremely insightful -- my opinion.

[CV75]

4 minutes ago, Fether said:

I had the exact same thought.

For those that actually do what is suppose to happen there will be some really cool blessings, but for those that don’t do the home study... they are better off doing the 3 hour block that they were already attending.

Maybe this is me being pessimistic (actually this definitely is), but I see this being very successful through the honeymoon stage, but a decade from now I can see this turning into Something like home teaching or FHE, a church inspired home program that the Saints and devils alike jokingly talk about how bad we are at it.

I see the new schedule and curriculum addressing the challenges faced by saints in all kinds of conditions in all part of the world.

For example, having half the 2nd and 3rd hour classes in the month may not yield any less absorption of gospel doctrine for the passive learner, but will likely increase it for those who take on more initiative in the home.

I think the relatively short-lived introduction of councils into the third hour, which isn't included in the new meeting format (except for maybe 5th Sundays), gave people enough of a taste to apply it in their homes and for leaders to use it in assigning problem-solving groups.

[zil]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Old: 9-12, 12-3, 3-6

New: 9-11, 12-2, 3-5 

Huh?

Old: 9-12, 11-2, 1-4

New: 9-11, 10:30-12:30, 12-2

[Jersey Boy]

5 hours ago, estowife said:

So I am born & raised LDS & continue to be active, married in the temple (still married though not happily) & raise a family in the gospel. I always felt that religion is not my thing, not remotely interested in it, don't enjoy it & If I wasn't born into it, certainly wouldn't go looking for it...

So naturally to me the 2 hour church announcement is great news, sitting through 3 hours (or more) of church on a sunday has to be the worst 3 hours of my week!

But I am curious.... every response I have seen on various social media platforms have all been similarly pleased, excited & celebratory, nobody is disappointed to be losing an hour of church.

So I would like to know why everybody is so pleased, did people secretly hate 3 hours of church, was it just as horrendous for everybody else as it felt for me,

just curious as to why everyone is high five-ing & celebrating etc, what are your reasons

Thanks

I don’t know know if I’m correct in my assessment, but when I learned of the many members who seem to be thrilled Sunday Church services will soon occupy on less hour, the first though that came to my mind is most of these people are likely the type who will not take seriously the prophetic call to implement consistent, quality Church activities in the home.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Jersey Boy

[Anddenex]

9 minutes ago, CV75 said:

If the families permit, this might be an opportunity for the youth to get together after church in someone's home for a Sabbath-related activity.

This is a great idea actually, especially in light of Duty to God and Personal Progress.

[NeuroTypical]

5 minutes ago, zil said:

Huh?

Old: 9-12, 11-2, 1-4

New: 9-11, 10:30-12:30, 12-2

The other ward always smells worse, behaves worse, and messes up the library.  And doesn't put the chairs away.  Probably better if we just stop seeing each other.

[SilentOne]

16 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I also hope we will no longer hear, "The church was supposed to teach my children...."

My mom bought a 2019 Primary manual recently and as I was looking through it last night, I noticed that the topic for week 1 is something along the lines of, "I Am Responsible for My Own Learning."

20 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Old: 9-12, 12-3, 3-6

New: 9-11, 12-2, 3-5

13 minutes ago, zil said:

Huh?

Old: 9-12, 11-2, 1-4

New: 9-11, 10:30-12:30, 12-2

 

I saw a version of zil's schedule outlined in the book, as well as 9-11, 11:30-1:30, 2-4

[The Folk Prophet]

55 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I have encountered some young folks who are sad that there is less church.  But everyone else I've talked to is happy.

Something I haven't seen mentioned - this probably impacts the church's building planning and stake organization process.   Easier to house 3 wards in one building now with room to navigate around each other. 

Old: 9-12, 12-3, 3-6

New: 9-11, 12-2, 3-5

New could easily be 9-11, 10:30-12:30, 11-1, 12:30-2:30 (edit: I see @zil beat me to it).

Edited October 7, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

50 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I think you have a true point here, and it is the same with ministering. Those in our ward who are ministering are the ones who were honorable home teachers. Since the switch I have two assigned ministers who have never reached out to me or my family. At least with home teachers I had someone reaching out to me occasionally. The whole concept of "a more genuine love and concern" is not hitting the hears of some members.

I think the same for this also; although, this is what should have been occurring all along there are some who will now only have one less hour of church and do nothing with the rest of the time. I believe we are seeing the ten virgins scenario and the wheat and the tares come full fold.

I also hope we will no longer hear, "The church was supposed to teach my children...." This was never to be the case. True teaching happens in the home. Supported teaching at church. We are now progressing toward this even further, which is why Elder Bednar's talk was extremely insightful -- my opinion.

But, of course, what drives someone to minister? Changing a program? No. Testimony. What brings testimony? Study, ponder, and prayer.

Point being, the home study intent is to drive more study, ponder, and prayer, which should, in theory, lead to better ministering.

[The Folk Prophet]

44 minutes ago, Jersey Boy said:

I don’t know know if I’m correct in my assessment, but when I learned of the many members who seem to be thrilled Sunday Church services will soon occupy on less hour, the first though that came to my mind is most of these people are likely the type who will not take seriously the prophetic call to implement consistent, quality Church activities in the home.

Conversely, some of these may be the exact folk for who the change was made, in that the change in focus and drive might shake them from complacency.