Would you date or marry a woman who had an abortion?

[Guest]

12 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Exact thing happened to me. I found out about 16 yrs into our marriage. Never once crossed my mind to ask. 
If you need me to expand I will, but know that we are still happily married years later with 4 kids of our own and she is a wonderful Primary Pres. right now.

If you're willing to, I'm curious enough to ask you to go ahead and expand all you want.

[anatess2]

11 hours ago, marge said:

My son will more than likely marry someone from our church, who would be a virgin like him,

 

9 hours ago, Vort said:

I never asked my wife if she had had an abortion. She was a 20-year-old virgin when we got engaged. 

 

Soo.... did you ask, "Are you a virgin?"

[lostinwater]

26 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I (think I) understand (I’m  a little unclear as to whether @marge‘s position is that it’s none of a spouse’s business, or merely that you shouldn’t have to ask because the partner’s character should make it beyond question that they’d ever have historically done such a thing.  But I’m sure she can clarify).

 But my response to your question would be:  heck yeah, a woman needs to know if her fiancé has killed anyone; even in wartime.  It’s not something that needs to come up on a first date, of course; but it’s something that should be discussed before the wedding.  I am frankly appalled that anyone would seriously think “yeah, I killed some people; but my spouse doesn’t have a right to know about that, because I deem the killings justified and my judgment should be good enough that the little woman doesn’t need to worry her pretty little head about it . . .”

 Marriage is hard enough without bringing baggage like this into it; and people should at least know what they’re getting into. 

Thank-you.

Sounds like you'd be fine having this question asked of you - even in the context of determining your safety around children.  And that's fine!  From what i've seen, a lot of other people wouldn't and would respond accordingly.  Some questions are 'loaded' - especially depending on the nature of the relationship they are being asked in, and under what pretext the person asking wishes to know the answer.  Anyways, that's all i was trying to say.  

[NeedleinA]

5 hours ago, Lost Boy said:

When you found out, was it a bit of a blow? If it was, how did you deal with it? 

Yes it was a blow, but not like you might think.
Here was a secret that my wife had been holding onto for about 20yrs by time she shared it with me. She was absolutely fearful to share it with me, she could barely gets the words out. She was in tears, hands over her face half the time and I knew the burden of holding that for so long was an enormous weight on her. So... what do you say to that? What do you say to anyone who clearly has carried a tremendous bag of guilt and shame for so long? I didn't know what to say to her. Almost instantly (almost makes me want to cry now typing it out) an absolutely, overwhelming, down the deepest parts of your bones rush of love poured into me on her behalf. I honestly felt like I was completely encompassed in the purest of pure love. I felt what I can only describe as a literal heavenly hand on my shoulder letting me know that she was loved and forgiven by our Father in Heaven and I was to do the same.

So... I told her how sorry I was that she had held onto this all these years, that I loved her, that we would be fine. We haven't spoken of it since - it is done.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by NeedleinA

[Vort]

51 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 

 

Soo.... did you ask, "Are you a virgin?"

I don't remember, but I doubt it. Pretty sure we had already talked about chastity-related issues sufficiently that I knew quite well where we both were coming from.

[anatess2]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

I don't remember, but I doubt it. Pretty sure we had already talked about chastity-related issues sufficiently that I knew quite well where we both were coming from.

Interestingly... I ask my sons this periodically.  Public school, ya know.  "Have you done sex, drugs, alcohol, bullying, and anything I need to know about?".  My sons say, "Answer still the same.  No."  Sometimes, they whip back, "Don't you trust me?" and I tell them, "Every single time the parents are interviewed about a kid who killed someone or killed himself, they always say... but Johnny was such a good boy, I never thought he'd be capable of this!"  And they'd say, "yeah, yeah... if we're capable of that, we'd be capable of lying to you too."  And I'd whip back, "I'll know if you're lying.  You ate my placenta." 

It's just become tradition and they always laugh at the placenta.

Edited November 7, 2018 by anatess2

[NeedleinA]

10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

If you're willing to, I'm curious enough to ask you to go ahead and expand all you want.

Sure Carb.
Over the years I've slowly and stubbornly learned that individuals honestly all come from different backgrounds and upbringings. I've had to learn that the standards, morals, values and expectations that I was taught may have been almost completely void in their lives prior to learning about the gospel. I've had to learn that the love, protection and blessings I received growing up may have been completely void their lives also. For too long in my life, I erroneously tried to hold others up to how 'I' was raised.

While I was a squeakin deacon, had FHE, went to church - my wife was being sexually abused by her alcoholic father.
While I had Church leaders who helped teach me right form wrong, she had no such outside support.
While I was on my mission, my wife was married briefly to someone who abused her in a variety of ways. It was from this marriage, as she was trying to flee it that the abortion took place.

I guess what I'm saying is I've learned that I can't hold others to my standard - for some, the introduction to the gospel may be the first ray of light/love/direction they ever have experienced in their life. I 'now' find it extremely hard to ever judge pre-baptism /pre-gospel actions.

Had my wife told me things in our younger years, I know I wouldn't have been mature enough to have dealt with them. I was too ridged in my views, too narrow in my experiences.

Edited November 8, 2018 by NeedleinA

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Vort said:

I don't remember, but I doubt it. Pretty sure we had already talked about chastity-related issues sufficiently that I knew quite well where we both were coming from.

That was the same for us.  We had a discussion about many things where certain questions didn't really need to be asked.  We already knew.  But the important thing is that we had the conversation.  This feeds into my "red flag" thing.  Because we had the conversation where no red flags popped up, then we didn't need to go further.

But if there were some red flags that popped up, then there would be further questions.  Then it would continue until we were all content with the disclosure.  So, by this methodology, the question "Did you have an abortion" wouldn't come up until you're a couple levels into the conversation full of red flags.

[estradling75]

For me I am less concerned about where someone has been then where they are currently headed.

That being said your spouse is more then just some random stranger you are commanded to Love.  Your spouse is your partner, your help meet, the person you should trust to have your back and for you to have theirs..  Therefore a higher level of due diligence and discrimination (yes discrimination can be a good thing) is required/recommend before taking that step.

Your spouse's baggage/history becomes your baggage/history.  You need to make sure you can bear such weight.  (All the shaming of strangers telling you you should... does not magically increase your capacity)  Which means you need to get a good feel for that that history is and your ability to deal with it.

Having said that sometimes our spouse might keep secret... that is a sad possibility.  The answer to this is still due diligence and prayer.  One should not get married until they know it is the path the Lord wants them to take and/or the person in question becomes a "No matter what" person.  (aka No matter what is in their past or future they are the one you want).  When you have either one (preferably both) of those then you move forward... because what ever they might reveal down the road you have already answered the hard question and are comitted to working through it.

[anatess2]

30 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Had my wife told me things in our younger years, I know I wouldn't have been mature enough to have dealt with them. I was too ridged in my views, too narrow in my experiences.

Of course you know yourself better than anyone but somehow I doubt you wouldn't be mature enough to deal with them.  I think it more likely that this would be your "maturing" moment... the one where you were not mature before that, but then you got... (something with fire.  sorry, my English is failing me)... and you walk into your marriage that much more confident.

[Lost Boy]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

Sure Carb.
Over the years I've slowly and stubbornly learned that individuals honestly all come from different backgrounds and upbringings. I've had to learn that the standards, morals, values and expectations that I was taught may have been almost completely void in their lives prior to learning about the gospel. I've had to learn that the love, protection and blessings I received growing up may have been completely void their lives. For too long in my life, I erroneously tried to hold others up to how 'I' was raised.

While I was a squeakin deacon, had FHE, went to church - my wife was being sexually abused by her alcoholic father.
While I had Church leaders who helped teach me right form wrong, she had no such outside support.
While I was on my mission, my wife was married briefly to someone who abused her in a variety of ways. It was from this marriage, as she was trying to flee it that the abortion took place.

I guess what I'm saying is I've learned that I can't hold others to my standard - for some, the introduction to the gospel may be the first ray of light/love/direction they ever have experienced in their life. I 'now' find it extremely hard to ever judge pre-baptism /pre-gospel actions.

Had my wife told me things in our younger years, I know I wouldn't have been mature enough to have dealt with them. I was too ridged in my views, too narrow in my experiences.

I am much like you in that the older I get the more I realize that we all have our own demons that we have to contend with and it is not fair in the least for us to judge others based on our experiences. 

10 years ago, I was so much more judgemental.  I definitely couldn't see the beam in my own eye. 

I know I would be scared to death if I were a young woman pregnant, no husband and massive fog clouding my future with very little hope. 

Cudos to you for being understanding. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lost Boy said:

I know I would be scared to death if I were a young woman ...

I'd be scared too if someone who called himself "Lost Boy" were a young woman.

[LadyGunnar]

I think that if you have a problem, any problem with a future mate, then you have the right to end it. It doesn't matter what the problem is.  

Dating is the time to find out if they are the one. Questions should be asked and answered then. I had deal breakers. I had a list of them. I would assume most people do.

 

I would want to know if my spouse had something to do with abortion. 

[marge]

7 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 

 

Soo.... did you ask, "Are you a virgin?"

No 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, marge said:

No 

So how would you know the person is a virgin?  

[Grunt]

Dating is a job interview.  You'd better be asking the important questions.

[marge]

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, you have.  And I thank you.  I think you've made that position clear.  And I actually agree with you when I see it from where you're coming from.  But is that all you wanted?  You wanted to be clear on YOUR position?

Part of participating in an open forum is to also understand OTHER people's point of view.  Are you not interested in understanding others?

I've read OTHERS opinions on it, I can understand their point of view, I think its very judgemental but I understand it. I've stated my opinion on the subject, I really don't know what else you want from me on the subject, nor am I willing to give any more than I already have.

[marge]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

Dating is a job interview.  You'd better be asking the important questions.

Good thing I've been happily married for 22 years then and I don't have to date anymore 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, marge said:

I've read OTHERS opinions on it, I can understand their point of view, I think its very judgemental but I understand it. I've stated my opinion on the subject, I really don't know what else you want from me on the subject, nor am I willing to give any more than I already have.

I'm just trying to understand you here...

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, marge said:

I've read OTHERS opinions on it, I can understand their point of view, I think its very judgemental but I understand it.

Apparently you don't. In what sense is it "judgmental" to ask someone if she has had an abortion? It might be boorish, invasive, in poor taste, nosy, or obnoxious. But how is it "judgmental" to ask such a question?

[marge]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

I'm just trying to understand you here...

Good luck with that, after 22 years my husband says he still doesn't understand me (or any woman for that matter) 🤣🤣

But seriously I've stated my opinion on the subject, I've answered the questions I am willing to answer, I'm not going to answer personal questions on an open forum about my husbands virginity when I married him, I find that very intrusive and inappropriate.

I think I'm done with this subject.

God bless you all

[anatess2]

23 minutes ago, marge said:

Good luck with that, after 22 years my husband says he still doesn't understand me (or any woman for that matter) 🤣🤣

But seriously I've stated my opinion on the subject, I've answered the questions I am willing to answer, I'm not going to answer personal questions on an open forum about my husbands virginity when I married him, I find that very intrusive and inappropriate.

I think I'm done with this subject.

God bless you all

I didn't ask you that question.  I asked the question how your son is going to know his future wife is a virgin or anything else you think is an important trait for a wife before the wedding.  

I'm just trying to understand what your non-offensive method is.

Edited November 7, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, marge said:

I really don't know what else you want from me on the subject,

Usually in a back-and-forth conversation, we often say things like,"Ok, you have a point there." or "I'm not quite with you on that one."

[marge]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I didn't ask you that question.  I asked the question how your son is going to know his future wife is a virgin or anything else you think is an important trait for a wife before the wedding.  

I'm just trying to understand what your non-offensive method is.

you said to me 

Soo.... did you ask, "Are you a virgin?"  to which I responded 'No'

I assumed you were asking me a direct question since you didn't mention my son in it at all, in any case I've already explained to you that pre-marital counselling done by my church is the place to discuss and work out anything that needs to be discussed or worked out before marriage.

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, marge said:

you said to me 

Soo.... did you ask, "Are you a virgin?"  to which I responded 'No'

I assumed you were asking me a direct question since you didn't mention my son in it at all, in any case I've already explained to you that pre-marital counselling done by my church is the place to discuss and work out anything that needs to be discussed or worked out before marriage.

No, I directly quoted Vort on that question (tongue in cheek but relevant).  I quoted you because you said you taught your son such that you expect him to marry a virgin which is why he won't have to ask the abortion question which is what led to Vort's statement.  So the question in context applies to your teaching to your son too.

I'm noticing that you are getting offended by our questions... which leaves me scratching my head how I'm going to understand you.

Edited November 7, 2018 by anatess2