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Anddenex

A Response to President Nelson's Address at BYU

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From what I recall, there was scandal with the Salt Lake Olympic Committee.  Something like getting caught bribing folks to get the Olympics to come to SL.  Romney was brought in to restore integrity to the process, which he did (I think), and everything settled down.

I remember I was working in Denver at the time the olympics were coming to SLC.  I remember talking on the phone to my dad in Utah one lunch hour.  Saying something like "The olympics is the best thing to ever happen to the Mormons.  It gives us the chance to prove to the whole world that we're not crazy."  I heard a snicker from a cube over, from a co-worker who thought organized religion was crazy, and LDS folk doubly-so.  We had a lot of good discussions at that job.  

I remember before the SLC winter olympics, the LDS folk were all suspicious of outsiders and were half in denial about 1/2 of SLC not being LDS.  Utah and LDS were indistinguishable.  After the olympics, I remember new energy around 2 Nephi "And it shall come to pass in the last days, when the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow unto it.".  Suddenly, we're not wary of the people we meet at the Salt Lake International Airport any more.  

I forget how Utah folks ended up remembering the Olympics, but I remember it as not a small bringer of change as the LDS culture grew to appreciate that we were a worldwide church, not a Utah church doing well in the world.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Saying something like "The olympics is the best thing to ever happen to the Mormons.  It gives us the chance to prove to the whole world that we're not crazy."

Your dad vocalized exactly the stereotype I held. My response (not to your dad personally, but to the whole idea) is, "Who cares what the 'whole world' thinks? So they think we're crazy. So what?"

If I'm a Utahn in the 1990s, I'm thinking that I live in a delicate little slice of paradise. I'll speak up loud and long against bringing the Olympic Games into my piece of heaven. The last thing I want is to advertise it around to everyone, bringing people in, crowding the place up and diluting the uniquely LDS flavor of the place, inflating real estate prices, and basically Californicating the whole state.

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

No matter what caused Utah to become less sheltered and more worldly-the fact is that it happened/is happening and you can't put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. 

Sure you can.  All it takes is a god to come visit the earth and burn to a crisp any infidel who refuses to toe the line.  

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

Your dad vocalized exactly the stereotype I held. My response (not to your dad personally, but to the whole idea) is, "Who cares what the 'whole world' thinks? So they think we're crazy. So what?"

If I'm a Utahn in the 1990s, I'm thinking that I live in a delicate little slice of paradise. I'll speak up loud and long against bringing the Olympic Games into my piece of heaven. The last thing I want is to advertise it around to everyone, bringing people in, crowding the place up and diluting the uniquely LDS flavor of the place, inflating real estate prices, and basically Californicating the whole state.

It’s an interesting view, but don’t know if I agree or disagree. On one hand you could see this as an opportunity to let our light shine. On the other; we are showing the swine of the world where all the pearls are.

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If the Utah olympics put into motion events that would lead to one soul coming to Christ, but also brought in on the corruption of Utah. Would it have been worth it?

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8 minutes ago, Fether said:

On one hand you could see this as an opportunity to let our light shine.

The intent of the Olympic Games is certainly not to further LDS missionary work. I do not believe God needs the Olympic Games to accomplish his purposes. I do believe that we, like the ancient Jerusalem, are a city on a hill, whose light cannot and should not be hidden. But I don't believe that means we are supposed to go looking for PR opportunities to expose ourselves to the rest of the world.

Again, if the Church's leadership was pushing for the Olympic Games, then I support them. Otherwise, I think it was a mistake, one that Utahns are now paying for and will continue to pay for generations to come. Let people think we're polygamist Mennonites. Whatever. No skin off our noses. Our missionaries are out there, and Christ's sheep hear his voice. They are the only ones whose good favor we seek to curry. The opinions of the rest mostly don't matter.

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3 minutes ago, Fether said:

If the Utah olympics put into motion events that would lead to one soul coming to Christ, but also brought in on the corruption of Utah. Would it have been worth it?

How many souls would said corruption end up leading away from Christ?

I don't think we can really use a quid pro quo mentality and formulate an equation based on conversion rates that will tell us what to do. I think God sees a vastly greater picture than do we, and I think the Spirit understands subtleties that escape us. So as I've said, if the Church leadership was for it, then I accept that. But otherwise, I think it was a mistake. When I make my own personal paradise in the mountains or on an island or whatever, the only people I'll let know about it are those I want living there with me. To everyone else, I'll be happy to let them believe it's hell on earth.

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2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Sure you can.  All it takes is a god to come visit the earth and burn to a crisp any infidel who refuses to toe the line.  

lol. Well, I'm still hoping that as many infidels as possible see the light before that happens. 

Edited by MormonGator

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Back to the original topic of this post. Would Salt Lake City be one of the most welcoming place for the LGBTs if it weren't for the Olympics bringing in so many alternative thinkers. In other words, if Utah hadn't hosted the Olympics and still wasn't on the map, or at the very least still confused with Iowa or Ohio by many in the eastern states, would there be as many LGBTs there now? I know there were plenty before, too, because many people I worked with at the hospitals came to Utah well before the Olympics for the skiing and hiking. I just wonder if the Olympics opened the door to more liberals who now, in 2019 champion the LGBT agenda. Not quite California or the Pacific Notrthwest yet, but getting there. 

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42 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Back to the original topic of this post. Would Salt Lake City be one of the most welcoming place for the LGBTs if it weren't for the Olympics bringing in so many alternative thinkers. In other words, if Utah hadn't hosted the Olympics and still wasn't on the map, or at the very least still confused with Iowa or Ohio by many in the eastern states, would there be as many LGBTs there now? I know there were plenty before, too, because many people I worked with at the hospitals came to Utah well before the Olympics for the skiing and hiking. I just wonder if the Olympics opened the door to more liberals who now, in 2019 champion the LGBT agenda. Not quite California or the Pacific Notrthwest yet, but getting there. 

I think CA terribly high cost of living had more to do with that than anything else.

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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

lol. Well, I'm still hoping that as many infidels as possible see the light before that happens. 

Me too. Imagine how 4 billion+ People spontaneously combusting all at once would effect global warming.

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My two cents on this topic

In 2016 there were nearly 43,000 deaths by suicide

4 out of 5 suicides are men. Out of those 43,000 who committed suicide, 34,400 were men

https://afsp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016-National-Facts-Figures.pdf

Roughly 2% of the male population in the United identify as gay or bisexual https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/williams-in-the-news/how-many-people-are-gay/

That means, out of those 34,400 men who committed suicide, 2% identified as gay or bisexual. Roughly 700 men

Every year, roughly 26,000 men who engage in homosexual behavior contract AIDS, which will kill them. https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/overview/data-and-trends/statistics

Men who actively give into their homosexual feelings die by disease at more than 37 times the rate of gay men who die by suicide.

 

Edited by rgreer77

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19 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Please note that none of these articles reference the SLC winter Olympics.  Utah was headed for a disaster until Romney took over and turned everything around.  The Salt Lake Olympics created a profit and became the exception.  I am sure if someone dug deep enough they could find some negative aspect of the Olympics in SLC - but having been here at the time I do not remember a any.  One of the reason that the Olympics was such a success was the culture of the saints here and the large number of volunteers – especially at the management level.   Also there were a lot of existing resources that were utilized at minimal maintenance costs – such as the University of Utah football stadium.   In fact, instead of using the Olympics as an economic bonanza the ski resorts made available resources at no or little costs for various venues – construction and other costs were paid for from Olympic funds but the world class ski resorts donated resources as an investment rather than an initial payout.

Romney set an interesting hosting precedence that seems to be ignored by other hosting the Olympics for an $$$$$.

I would be interested in any knowledge anyone has with the SLC winter Olympics that could be properly labeled as a failure.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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11 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I would be interested in any knowledge anyone has with the SLC winter Olympics that could be properly labeled as a failure.

The concept that is being tossed around is that the Olympics put SLC on everyone’s radar where before hand, no one really knew about it. After being the world stage of the great athletic event, it began popping to people’s mind as a good place to live. Utah began attracting people from outside the Latter-day Saint community and is now becoming a center of wickedness.

I would be interested in seeing the population growth statistics on Utah from pre olympics to post olympics.

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14 hours ago, carlimac said:

Back to the original topic of this post. Would Salt Lake City be one of the most welcoming place for the LGBTs if it weren't for the Olympics bringing in so many alternative thinkers. In other words, if Utah hadn't hosted the Olympics and still wasn't on the map, or at the very least still confused with Iowa or Ohio by many in the eastern states, would there be as many LGBTs there now? I know there were plenty before, too, because many people I worked with at the hospitals came to Utah well before the Olympics for the skiing and hiking. I just wonder if the Olympics opened the door to more liberals who now, in 2019 champion the LGBT agenda. Not quite California or the Pacific Notrthwest yet, but getting there. 

I am invested in the ski industry and I also am invested in providing for visitors coming to Utah.  I am aware that there are LGBT individuals that initially visited Utah and have ended up staying.  However, Utah is known as a place for serious lovers of the outdoors.  Colorado is known as that place to go for a good time after outdoor activities.  I have made it clear to my guests that drinking will only be allowed in moderation but smoking, vaping or illegal drugs will not be tolerated.   I have only once in over 12 years had to act to remove a guest.

I believe we can be open and welcoming to everybody and still be clear about lines that respectfully will not be challenged.  For example - I believe what a person does in private (within the law) is for them to keep private.  If someone makes private things public - then they cannot complain about whatever the response is (within the law).  No one is bullied about their private life - while it is private.

 

The Traveler 

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3 minutes ago, Fether said:

The concept that is being tossed around is that the Olympics put SLC on everyone’s radar where before hand, no one really knew about it. After being the world stage of the great athletic event, it began popping to people’s mind as a good place to live. Utah began attracting people from outside the Latter-day Saint community and is now becoming a center of wickedness.

I would be interested in seeing the population growth statistics on Utah from pre olympics to post olympics.

I am not sure this is accurate.  50 years ago while serving in the military I discovered that Salt Lake City is a favorite place for military personal to travel through while on leave.  Yah - I was naive enough then to ask - Why?  And if anyone does not know the most popular activity of the general military on leave I will explain it - trying not to violate forum rules. 

 

The Traveler

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30 minutes ago, Fether said:

The concept that is being tossed around is that the Olympics put SLC on everyone’s radar where before hand, no one really knew about it. After being the world stage of the great athletic event, it began popping to people’s mind as a good place to live. Utah began attracting people from outside the Latter-day Saint community and is now becoming a center of wickedness.

I would be interested in seeing the population growth statistics on Utah from pre olympics to post olympics.

Year  Pop % Change
2020 3,282,115 1.88%
2019 3,221,610 1.91%
2018 3,161,105 1.87%
2017 3,103,118 1.99%
2016 3,042,613 2.02%
2015 2,982,497 1.54%
2014 2,937,399 1.36%
2013 2,897,927 1.56%
2012 2,853,467 1.39%
2011 2,814,216 1.40%
2010 2,775,334 2.20%
2000 2,233,169 2.63%
1990 1,722,850 1.66%
1980 1,461,037 3.27%
1970 1,059,273 1.75%
1960 890,627 2.60%
1950 688,862 2.27%
1940 550,310 0.81%
1930 507,847 1.23%
1920 449,396 1.87%
1910 373,351 3.04%
1900 276,749 2.76%
1890 210,779 3.89%
1880 143,963 5.25%
1870 86,336 7.92%
1860 40,273 13.47%
1850 11,380 0.00%

 

Hope this helps.

 

The Traveler

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That last column looks like it's percentage change per annum, not per increment (decades up until 2011). It would be nice to see the annual (as opposed to the average annual) change during the 2000-2010 period.

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On 9/24/2019 at 5:46 PM, Vort said:

As a non-Utahn, I could never understand why those in Utah were all so eager for the Olympics. Even my own relatives who lived there seemed excited at the prospect. I was shaking my head in disbelief. Looks like they got what they wanted. So is Utah better off for it? Maybe if your measure for "better off" is the quality of top-end ski resorts. Otherwise, I think not.

I was just starting my mission when the Olympics started.  The topic did get us in a few more doors and we had a few more conversations than we otherwise would have.  

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1 minute ago, dprh said:

I was just starting my mission when the Olympics started.  The topic did get us in a few more doors and we had a few more conversations than we otherwise would have.  

And perhaps that's the point.

Here are some random musings. We have made much ado about the Church membership outside the US exceeding 50% of the Church's total membership. But I'm starting to wonder if the Church's future in leadership lies largely outside the US, as well. God gave Utah to the Saints as a refuge in their darkest hour, and they in turn made the desert blossom as the rose. But true Zion is not merely a location; it's a state of spirit. Utah culture has certainly had its unique aspects, for good and for otherwise. I can only assume that whatever is virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy in that culture can and will be replicated in stakes around the world. As for the rest, that doesn't matter.

The Lord taught that a seed of corn must die before it can produce its bounty. Perhaps the insular nature of the Utah community was part of a seed of grain that had to die in order to make bigger, more important things happen. The overall beneficial effect to the Church of the 2002 Olympic Games looks pretty darn small to me. But as we know, by small things are great things brought to pass.

The essence of "liberal thought" (real liberality, not the stupidly misnamed American leftist version, so often called "progressive" without a hint of irony) is that things might be better than they are, if only we would seek for that. The essence of ""conservative thought" is that we have a good thing going here in many ways, and that only a fool would throw out the blessings we have received. The older I get, the more I feel myself pulled toward the conservative ideology. Perhaps the Spirit is leading the Lord's kingdom toward the true (not Democrap) liberal ideal. The two schools of thought need not be in conflict. In fact, it is most certain that God is both conservative and liberal, in the truthful and divine meanings of those terms. But it will require adherents of both schools to humble themselves.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

The Lord taught that a seed of corn must die before it can produce its bounty. Perhaps the insular nature of the Utah community was part of a seed of grain that had to die in order to make bigger, more important things happen. The overall beneficial effect to the Church of the 2002 Olympic Games looks pretty darn small to me. But as we know, by small things are great things brought to pass.

Very interesting. I have never looked at Utah this way before.

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The problem with this therapist's approach is she can only be right in her belief if the healing power of the atonement is not real or is seriously exaggerated. In fact to say the Church's approach to helping people with same-sex attraction is actually making the problem worse is essentially saying the atonement of Jesus Christ is harmful to people. Clearly this is a case of "when they are learned they think they are wise and hearken not unto the counsels of God but set it aside supposing they know of themselves. Wherefore their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them (and their patients) not."

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