Comical manufactured outrage at BYU

[prisonchaplain]

In the 1980s liberals and secularists were deathly afraid that Judeo-Christian morality would be forced down their throats by the scary Moral Majority and Christian Coalition. The reality was that most of us believed in free will/agency, and accepted that morality could be embraced or rejected. We heeded the calls for tolerance and plurality. Now we have a Christian high school in Seattle (King's) and a Catholic one in a suburb (Kennedy, Burien, WA) be lambasted by local media for "anti-gay" policies (i.e. millennia of church teaching that is suddenly shocking). So...welcome to the fight for religious liberty. Somehow, I do not expect the secular fundamentalists to be nearly so tolerant and pluralistic as we were.

 

 

[Vort]

31 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

(She also went from her BigMac, to protesting a greek food truck for murdering pigs.)

Ah, yes, I remember you telling us about her. 24/7 laughs.

[prisonchaplain]

I just read a Tribune article about the change and then change at BYU. The reporter interviewed a good number of students claiming to be gay or bisexual. The overall effect is thoroughly confusing--probably marking me as a true boomer. So the Church has maintained traditional Christian sexual mores throughout its existence, right? The Law of Chastity seems particularly relevant--yet, it calls for a rigorous, yet mainstream Christian standard. The Church has never indicated it was 'inclusive,' or open to reinterpreting scriptures based on modern cultural understandings. AND...BYU is the Church's flagship university. Members who are accepted and do reasonably well win not only a degree from a prestigious school, but a network of church-affiliated alumni who rightfully favor BYU-grads--especially the 98%+ who are church members. THEN, for these LGBTQ students to cry foul and pretend that a downplaying of gay PDA as an honor code offense is some kind of turn around on the whole matter of Heavenly Father's intended sexual order for His followers...well it seems disingenuous. Wait, the title of this string is "manufactured outrage..."  Okay, I get it. Never mind.

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I just read a Tribune article about the change and then change at BYU. The reporter interviewed a good number of students claiming to be gay or bisexual. The overall effect is thoroughly confusing--probably marking me as a true boomer.

More likely, this is the Tribune Effect™. If you ever read any article in the SL Tribune about BYU, there is an approximately 100.000% chance it will be negatively slanted.

5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

So the Church has maintained traditional Christian sexual mores throughout its existence, right? The Law of Chastity seems particularly relevant--yet, it calls for a rigorous, yet mainstream Christian standard. The Church has never indicated it was 'inclusive,' or open to reinterpreting scriptures based on modern cultural understandings. [...] THEN, for these LGBTQ students to cry foul and pretend that a downplaying of gay PDA as an honor code offense is some kind of turn around on the whole matter of Heavenly Father's intended sexual order for His followers...well it seems disingenuous.

You are both more intelligent and more honest than most SLTrib readers. Many of that ilk like to bring up plural marriage (polygamy, specifically a type of polygyny) to show that Mormons used to follow nontraditional sexual mores, so how hypocritical of us to condemn other nontraditional sexual mores. Yes, of course, because the two are directly comparable, along with necrophilia and bestiality.

[prisonchaplain]

Except, of course, that the biblical record is sprinkled with references to plural marriage. Much rigorous theological discussion surrounds whether God blesses vs. tolerates vs. disapproves of those arrangements, but they were common--and prophets and kings, whom God ordained, engaged in them.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Would students be sanctioned/punished for protesting against things like the Iraq War? Just curious, nothing more. 

One addition to @Scott’s excellent answer:  if they do something illegal, whether on- or off-campus, they may be subject to HCO action.  One of the leaders of the BYU anti-war movement chained himself to a federal building, got arrested, got a letter from HCO asking him to come in and explain himself, and thereafter withdrew from BYU rather than stay and defend himself before the HCO.  

Edited March 5, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[Fether]

45 minutes ago, Vort said:

there is an approximately 100.000% chance it will be negatively slanted.

I appreciate the arithmetic precision

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

4 hours ago, Vort said:

there is an approximately 100.000% chance it will be negatively slanted.

I appreciate the arithmetic precision

Only an approximation, mind you. ±0.0005%.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Vort

[Guest Scott]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

BYU allowing protests against Church doctrine? Nope, I don't get it.

The article says that it wan an impromptu protest.  I assume that means it wasn't approved.  

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, Scott said:

2 hours ago, Vort said:

BYU allowing protests against Church doctrine? Nope, I don't get it.

The article says that it wan an impromptu protest.  I assume that means it wasn't approved. 

In which case I dearly hope the participants are held to account for their actions.

[Colirio]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

The article says that it wan an impromptu protest.  I assume that means it wasn't approved.  

Ah yes... 

 

I have witnessed several bus loads of “impromptu” protesters who show up coincidentally right as the news media does. 
 

They generally all (media and protester) vacate the area about 15 minutes afterwards. 
 

(Disclaimer: I didn’t read the article and I likewise DO believe there are legitimate, impromptu protests. On occasion. On RARE occasion. Rarely, on rare occasions.) 

[Just_A_Guy]

It is being reported on Twitter that there was another protest today and that a group of conservative counter-protestors was asked by BYU admin to leave.  The LGBTQ protestors, complete with signs including one that said “Q15, I’ll see you in Hell”, were allowed to stay.

I am thinking BYU is in the throes of nothing less than an attempted coup, and we’ll be seeing mass firings in the near future. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

complete with signs including one that said “Q15, I’ll see you in Hell”

That's repulsive beyond words. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Q15, I’ll see you in Hell”

President Joseph Smith described God's abode, the celestial kingdom, using the words "eternal burnings". President Brigham Young used the same words to describe the influence of the Holy Ghost. John's Revelation says that the wicked of the earth will pray the mountains and rocks to fall on them and hide them from "the wrath of the Lamb". So for such people, this state of things would indeed be a hell beyond their reckoning. I fear they speak the literal truth, presaging their own damnation.

[Anddenex]

I find the Book of Mormon all the more prophetic at times like these. The Great and Spacious building, the Mother of Harlots, and the Great and Abominable Church all represent at least two things similar:

1) The pride of the world

2) The vain ambitions and pride of the world

It is no coincidence that this particular movement is called "Pride." A pride that will one day have no foundation and the fall thereof will be great.

My older brother who is a strong supporter of this movement still has a level head in this regard. Despite his strong support he will still say, "If you know you are a certain way, and you know the Honor Code is not supportive, find another school to attend and allow someone who has the same mind and heart to attend the university."

But like with Satan, when they don't receive what they feel is right/truth - they will gnash their teeth. This war, this mentality, has been going on for a long time. The natural man is an enemy to God and anything that belongs to it.

[Vort]

41 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

It is no coincidence that this particular movement is called "Pride."

Truer words have seldom been spoken.

[Fether]

4 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It is being reported on Twitter that there was another protest today and that a group of conservative counter-protestors was asked by BYU admin to leave.  The LGBTQ protestors, complete with signs including one that said “Q15, I’ll see you in Hell”, were allowed to stay.

I am thinking BYU is in the throes of nothing less than an attempted coup, and we’ll be seeing mass firings in the near future. 

Where is this reporting?

[NeedleinA]

12 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

* Romantic behavior that doesn't get heterosexual student couples in trouble, will get homosexual student couples in trouble.

This might do the trick.
Q&A with the director of BYU's Honor Code Office said:

Quote

Can members of our campus community who identify as LGBTQ or SSA be disciplined for going on a date, holding hands and kissing?
Elder Johnson in his letter counsels, “Same-sex romantic behavior cannot lead to eternal marriage and is therefore not compatible with the principles included in the Honor Code.” Therefore, any same-sex romantic behavior is a violation of the principles of the Honor Code.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by NeedleinA

[Guest MormonGator]

Didn't BYU recently allow same sex ballroom dancing or something? 

[Just_A_Guy]

31 minutes ago, Fether said:

Where is this reporting?

I’m not Twitter-literate enough to link to specific tweets, but here’s a profile with some interesting recent posts:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Matthew_7_14

[Guest Godless]

27 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m not Twitter-literate enough to link to specific tweets, but here’s a profile with some interesting recent posts:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Matthew_7_14

Deznat gets a lot of heat on "Mormon Twitter" (partially because their hashtag is sometimes hi-jacked by alt-right types), but they're generally on the right side of the doctrine. If there's one thing I agree with them on, it's that people who refuse to make their lifestyles compatible with the Church should find another church, because the Church is highly unlikely to ever make itself compatible with their lifestyles.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Twitter-literate

Twitterate?

[JohnsonJones]

On Public Displays of Affection...I think at times even those who are dating the opposite Gender go too far these days, even with members of the Church.

I know I'm old, but it used to be that French Kissing was NOT something that was approved of.  Make out sessions were not something you sought after. 

These days it seems there are many in the church who think these things are just fine on a first date or soon after they start seeing someone.  Perhaps putting a reduction of such things at BYU among ALL the students could be a decent thing which would not just target a certain group, but be applicable to all students.

Obviously, dating and perhaps holding hands and a short kiss between a boy and a girl would be allowed if done in search for an eternal companion, but beyond that, many things done today probably could be toned down a little in my opinion.

Too many 'accidents' seem to happen with a few who take it farther in the PDA department.

[carlimac]

One of my 40ish LDS acquaintances posted on Instagram,  “I stand with the LGBTQs at BYU”.  What does that mean? Do you sanction everything they do? Do you think they are totally helpless to control that aspect of their lives so they should have the freedom to be “authentic” at BYU?   Another friend with a gay son feels the same. 

So how do you reconcile that with church doctrine and frankly, with nature.

I myself also stand with LGBTQ at BYU. I stand with their confusion, loneliness, the rejection they may feel from family, friends and maybe even church leaders. I stand with them as they face whatever made them that way. Abuse, dysfunctional relationships? In some cases they may have been born that way. I remember a baby with ambiguous genitalia at the hospital I worked at. Hopefully the surgeons that fixed the problem got it right but back then it was more of a crap shoot. I stand with the underdog and anyone who feels different from the majority. I feel compassion. I want to hug them and soften their pain.

But we all have to decide where that line is when we’re standing lest they get they idea that standing WITH them means standing FOR them and condoning all that they want. Some parental emotions and midlife wokeness take people way farther over that line than is good for them or the kids they are standing with. It can be a pretty fuzzy line and can cause even more hurt and confusion!
 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by carlimac

[anatess2]

13 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m not Twitter-literate enough to link to specific tweets, but here’s a profile with some interesting recent posts:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Matthew_7_14

Here ya go: