Still_Small_Voice

Interesting Article: Flee the wrath that is to come on the U.S.A.

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Posted on September 24th 2019

Habakkuk was disgusted by the unrighteousness of his nation (Habakkuk 1:2-4).  God told Habakkuk that He felt the same way, so His plan was to bring suffering to Judah (Habakkuk 1:5-11).  This plan would bring Judah back to reality and back to dependence on God. The plan was to bring Babylonian armies to demolish and conquer Judah. Habakkuk was horrified by this plan because Habakkuk felt that God owed something better to Judah (Habakkuk 1:12-17).  God answered his confusion in Habakkuk chapter 2. God’s only encouragement was to say that the Babylonians would also suffer for their injustice.

Last week I couldn’t even pray because I was angry at God for not preventing America from descending ever farther into unrighteousness. So I asked myself why I felt entitled to have America remain righteous. I never felt entitled that another country be righteous when I lived there.

I thought of the often cited 2 Chronicles 7:14, “If My people, who are called by My name, humble themselves…I will …heal their land.” This was a promise given to Israel, a nation in which 100% of the people (at the time) were His people. In the USA, only 10% to 30% are born again.  So not all US residents are His people. If 100% of Israel repented, of course it would be healed.  But if between 10% and 30% of a nation repent, the majority of the nation can still keep abortion legal.

Islam conquered 4 out of the 5 historic apostolic centers of Christianity.  None of those four centers have returned to Christianity since then. There is no guarantee that the USA will retain Christian morality or values.  Those apostolic centers had more reason to expect God’s intervention than the US does.  

Sometimes suffering is the way that God purifies a nation, leading it to repentance.  If it doesn’t lead a nation to repentance, His judgment at least glorifies His own sense of holiness and honor.

Read more at:  https://redstatesecession.org/escape-gods-judgment-of-the-usa/

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I was saddened to learn that of the 200 countries in the world the United States is one of only seven countries that allows abortion after twenty weeks of pregnancy.  The majority of the United States has also become a quite accepting of wicked sexual perversions.

Consequences and or judgments will follow when the majority of a nation accepts and chooses sin.

Edited by Still_Small_Voice

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I get queasy at the the idea of a political secession, and suppose I will have to take some time with that blog to see what, if anything, the author is actually advocating.

But, yes; I agree with the excerpts you posted about the world United States being “too much with us” as believers.

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They advocate on that forum for a peaceful break away of conservative States from the District of Columbia corruption and swamp to reform the Government under the Constitution.  Our current government is ignoring the Constitution far too much now in my opinion.  I personally do not see any other way other than breaking away but the LORD might prepare another way for liberty of the saints and His church to be preserved in the future.

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6 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

Posted on September 24th 2019

Habakkuk was disgusted by the unrighteousness of his nation (Habakkuk 1:2-4).  God told Habakkuk that He felt the same way, so His plan was to bring suffering to Judah (Habakkuk 1:5-11).  This plan would bring Judah back to reality and back to dependence on God. The plan was to bring Babylonian armies to demolish and conquer Judah. Habakkuk was horrified by this plan because Habakkuk felt that God owed something better to Judah (Habakkuk 1:12-17).  God answered his confusion in Habakkuk chapter 2. God’s only encouragement was to say that the Babylonians would also suffer for their injustice.

Last week I couldn’t even pray because I was angry at God for not preventing America from descending ever farther into unrighteousness. So I asked myself why I felt entitled to have America remain righteous. I never felt entitled that another country be righteous when I lived there.

I thought of the often cited 2 Chronicles 7:14, “If My people, who are called by My name, humble themselves…I will …heal their land.” This was a promise given to Israel, a nation in which 100% of the people (at the time) were His people. In the USA, only 10% to 30% are born again.  So not all US residents are His people. If 100% of Israel repented, of course it would be healed.  But if between 10% and 30% of a nation repent, the majority of the nation can still keep abortion legal.

Islam conquered 4 out of the 5 historic apostolic centers of Christianity.  None of those four centers have returned to Christianity since then. There is no guarantee that the USA will retain Christian morality or values.  Those apostolic centers had more reason to expect God’s intervention than the US does.  

Sometimes suffering is the way that God purifies a nation, leading it to repentance.  If it doesn’t lead a nation to repentance, His judgment at least glorifies His own sense of holiness and honor.

Read more at:  https://redstatesecession.org/escape-gods-judgment-of-the-usa/

Abortion can be seen as terrible, and though it is occurring, I find that there are many other things that condemn us far worse and are far more widespread as far as our sins in the West are occurring.  Even as a nation, the U.S. is involved in widespread disobedience on a massive scale.

That said, though it can be seen as a sin, there are multitudes of sin in the US and Europe currently, some which have a much greater prevalence in the West, even in the US.  Some of these are far worse in how they could be seen to condemn the West in it's behaviors as they are so widespread as to be commonplace.

1.  The Law of Chastity.  There is a HIGH percentage of divorce these days in the US.  In the New Testament the Lord condemns intimacy outside the bonds of marriage and especially points out that unless one divorces due to their partner committing adultery (or immorality along those lines such as fornication or OTHER sins comparable...something that the LGBT crowd does not realize that verse is also probably referencing as the Lord was WELL aware of that when he referenced immorality) they may be causing themselves or their partner to commit adultery in the future.  Divorce is rampant.

Even worse is fornication, something that IS condemned in the Bible.  It is estimated today that over 95% of All Americans and Europeans have intimate relations before marriage.  This would include many (if not most) Christians in that percentage. 

If we use the Biblical context of symbolism regarding the Lord's People and Him in marriage, as well as the sacredness of marriage, we have a great problem in that people do not even respect marriage itself, much less the symbolism between the Lord and his people.  In this, a great number of people are involved with these sins and most are not even ashamed of it, but instead openly mock those who would try to obey the Lord's commandments in the sacredness of marriage the acts that are held to be only done within it. 

Instead of holding these things sacred, we glorify the breaking of it in film and entertainment, and the west holds those who try to be obedient to it in disdain.  It is truly where many say evil is good and good evil among society today.

Adultery and Fornication are rampant in our nation breaking the 7th (6th in some teachings) commandment.

 

2.  Idolatry and taking the Lord's name in vain.  When we think of Idolatry most of the time we think of golden idols or an idol that is worshiped instead of the Lord.  It can include many other things.  Putting a King above the Lord in who you follow for example.  Prophets in the Bible were tested of old in this way, such as when Daniel had to choose whether to obey the commandments of the Lord or that of the King and his advisors.  Most of us today do not have the threat of Lions eating us or being tossed into a fire but many commit idolatry anyways.  They worship politicians (for example, put the ideas of a President or King above that of the Lord) and conflux politics with religion.  They worship sports and put sports above that of religion which in some cases can lead to questions of whether they are following yet another commandment (which I'll touch below).  They worship Entertainers, actors, or other items putting their value above that which they put the items of the Lord.  Very few actually put the Lord first in their lives and we will find their living rooms and bedrooms decorated with all the paraphernalia of that which they actually worship.

Idolatry is rampant in the US and Europe, breaking the 1st and 2nd commandments.

 

3.  In conjunction with the second item above, many do not keep the Sabbath day holy.  Instead of actual rest they spend themselves on sports, outings, and even work.  Worse, they force others to break the Sabbath by supporting businesses being open on the sabbath and forcing those employees to work, even if those employees wish to remain home and rest on the Sabbath instead.  In many areas it is as if there is no Sabbath day at all, every place is open.  As a Christian nation the Sabbath used to be held in holiness and Business that were unessential were closed.  Now, people might go to church but then a great majority will go and support businesses that are open on the Sabbath and having others work, even if they are not specifically at work themselves.  Going to a restaurant after Church or going clothes shopping for fun, doing things that cannot even be somewhat attributed to a necessary need are being acted upon.

Not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy breaking the 4th (3rd in some Teachings) commandment.

 

4.  You watch movies today and listen to film.  You constantly hear cursing, but one of the worst is how often you hear them take the Lord's name in vain.  A few years ago (actually, now that I think about it, it was actually in the 90s so I suppose it's been decades now) I was watching a Disney film.  You would think films made by Disney would be relatively safe.  In it, I suddenly heard them take the Lord's name in vain.  I was surprised.  This is so commonplace today it is even seen as appropriate for films we show our children.  Even worse, we have those who go full speed at breaking it, claiming they are the Lord's servants and then acting in the opposite way he would have them do.  In all ways, though they say they are his servants, they use him to promote themselves instead and get gain at the cost of others.

Using the Lord's name in vain is rampant in our society today, breaking the 3rd (in some teachings, the 2nd) commandment

 

5.  Not as rampant as those above it, but there are many who are cursing their parents and doing all sorts of disservice and disrespect to their forbears.  They do not care about their parents and in many instances openly mock them and their elders. 

Their is a great (even if it is far lesser than those above) spread of those who disrespect and dishonor their parents breaking the 5th (in some teachings the 4th) commandment.

 

These items above are not even the Higher Laws that were taught by the Lord.  These are the very basic commandments given by Moses and yet there is widespread breaking of them without much consideration of what is being done.  We haven't even touched the Greater commandments the Lord gave, but just these basic commandments show great trouble in our Nation and Europe.

When we consider the basic ideas that the Lord gave in the New Testament we will find very few are actually adhering to the Lord.

1.  Love the Lord with all your heart, might, mind, and strength.  In conjunction with the commandments above, if they cannot even follow the basic ideas of having one God and not taking his name in vain or keeping his day holy, they have a far way to go in keeping the higher ideal the Lord taught here.

2.  Love they Neighbor as thyself.  A prime example some will not agree with, but I see it as one.  If you could save your neighbor from death...would you?  How about if all it took was to not force them to see you (I suppose some could say wear a mask and social distance as Elder Renlund and President Nelson have taught for over a year, but I don't think their words hold as much substance among some as they do me) if they did not want you to come around them or to be forced into meetings or other areas.  This would hold especially true for very old folk today in the pandemic.  Not all are like this, and they are welcome to be visited if that is what they wish (in my book) but there are those that wished to isolate until the pandemic was over who had health problems or were old and very susceptible to the virus.

Instead of listening to their elders (so I suppose this could relay into the items above as well of honoring one's mother and father) children may have decided to go and visit anyways or try to force them to go to activities.  Others openly mocked these people instead of loving them and hoping that they would stay safe.  I see an awful many christians who have exhibited no sympathy or love for their neighbors who are trying to stay safe in whatever way they can over the past year.  If the actions of the many of whom we thought were the most devout christians are any indication, they are not acting very christian like recently. 

However, it can be seen much further in how many act.  I think one of the things President Nelson (the prophet of our church) has taught and tried to emphasize is that we should love our fellow man and our neighbors.  I see the things he has tried to bring up ignored on a daily basis (and we don't even have to take things the twelve have tried to say during this pandemic, we are talking about basic things such as helping them feel welcome to the church or recognizing that they are also children of our Father and his great love for them as well.  That we should not mock them or treat them unkindly...etc...etc...etc).

In that light, very few can be seen as actually following the Lord these days, even those who profess they do.  Of course, many would say those sins I listed at first, breaking the basic commandments are of GREATER concern and are widespread enough to condemn this nation.  When we include the ideas of the New Testament, very few in this nation seem to actually be following the Lord.

I may be among those who are also in great unrighteousness, though I try I am not going to exclude myself and say I am better than my fellows, but I do recognize that we, as a nation and a world are in a bad spot in even attempting to follow the Lord right now.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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3 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

In all my studies over the years of church leaders on the topic of this country, never once has secession been suggested.  Not once.

Well, there was the fact that Brigham Young led the Saints completely out of the United States of America and into Mexican territory. That should factor in there somewhere.

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3 hours ago, mirkwood said:

In all my studies over the years of church leaders on the topic of this country, never once has secession been suggested.  Not once.

Of all my studies of the last days, secession was never required because those in power would openly and blatantly abandon (I say disavow) the Constitution.

When that happens, the USA will no longer exist.

The Elders of Israel will then (figuratively at least) hold up the Constitution as an ensign to the nations for all to come to if they value freedom and justice.

What happens in between is not discussed as far as I know.  But if we look at the BoM as a type and shadow, we would break up into "tribes".  OOfcourse, if one believes in the Boys From the Mountains prophecy, a big war must occur first.

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In the scriptures we often see the Lord commanding his people to flee.  If he gives this command he has prepared a place for them to go.  The saints simply need to be faithful and obedient.

In rarer instances the Lord commands his people to fight. If he gives this command it will come with a promise that he will fight our battles.  Thus the saints simply need to be faithful and obedient.

No matter how it goes every prophet ever has been trying to prepare us for it.  The only real question we should be asking is are we being faithful and obedient?

 

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On 3/1/2021 at 1:01 AM, Still_Small_Voice said:

Posted on September 24th 2019

Habakkuk was disgusted by the unrighteousness of his nation (Habakkuk 1:2-4).  God told Habakkuk that He felt the same way, so His plan was to bring suffering to Judah (Habakkuk 1:5-11).  This plan would bring Judah back to reality and back to dependence on God. The plan was to bring Babylonian armies to demolish and conquer Judah. Habakkuk was horrified by this plan because Habakkuk felt that God owed something better to Judah (Habakkuk 1:12-17).  God answered his confusion in Habakkuk chapter 2. God’s only encouragement was to say that the Babylonians would also suffer for their injustice.

Last week I couldn’t even pray because I was angry at God for not preventing America from descending ever farther into unrighteousness. So I asked myself why I felt entitled to have America remain righteous. I never felt entitled that another country be righteous when I lived there.

I thought of the often cited 2 Chronicles 7:14, “If My people, who are called by My name, humble themselves…I will …heal their land.” This was a promise given to Israel, a nation in which 100% of the people (at the time) were His people. In the USA, only 10% to 30% are born again.  So not all US residents are His people. If 100% of Israel repented, of course it would be healed.  But if between 10% and 30% of a nation repent, the majority of the nation can still keep abortion legal.

Islam conquered 4 out of the 5 historic apostolic centers of Christianity.  None of those four centers have returned to Christianity since then. There is no guarantee that the USA will retain Christian morality or values.  Those apostolic centers had more reason to expect God’s intervention than the US does.  

Sometimes suffering is the way that God purifies a nation, leading it to repentance.  If it doesn’t lead a nation to repentance, His judgment at least glorifies His own sense of holiness and honor.

Read more at:  https://redstatesecession.org/escape-gods-judgment-of-the-usa/

For the record...I do believe that your prayers and your morning for America is about to be answered and we are about to enter the greatest decade in the history of the USA where the Holy Spirit is poured out on the whole world................ but the outreach to all nations will be led by America..... and to a large extent by you Latter day Saints!

A lot has been shown to people who would be termed Pentecostal but what was shown to them is relevant for all Latter day Saints much as a dream and an interpretation given to Midianites was relevant to the Judge Gideon.  

 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/judg/7?lang=eng

 

 

13 And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a adream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the bhost of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that cthe tent lay along.

14 And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.

15  And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the Lord hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian.

16 And he divided the three hundred men into three companies, and he put a trumpet in every man’s hand, with empty pitchers, and lamps within the pitchers.

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On 3/2/2021 at 6:29 AM, estradling75 said:

In the scriptures we often see the Lord commanding his people to flee.  If he gives this command he has prepared a place for them to go.  The saints simply need to be faithful and obedient.

In rarer instances the Lord commands his people to fight. If he gives this command it will come with a promise that he will fight our battles.  Thus the saints simply need to be faithful and obedient.

No matter how it goes every prophet ever has been trying to prepare us for it.  The only real question we should be asking is are we being faithful and obedient?

 

I thinking about this when I read Doctrine & Covenants section 45 recently.  Perhaps there will be several places of refuge the Saints and other moral and Christian people can flee to that the LORD will protect them at in the future.

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On 4/3/2021 at 10:12 PM, Still_Small_Voice said:

Perhaps there will be several places of refuge the Saints and other moral and Christian people can flee to that the LORD will protect them at in the future.

The stakes of Zion will essentially be embassy cities.

Quote

And that the gathering together upon the land of Zion, and upon her stakes, may be for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth.

D&C 115:6

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I would make a few points:

1. The ancient concept of righteous was not so much to live a pure life without sin as it is to covenant with G-d and rely upon Him.  Likewise wickedness is not so much what the unG-dly are involved in as it is the righteous breaking their "everlasting covenant".  The punishments that G-d pores out upon the unG-dly nations is not as serious as the punishments G-d requires at the hand of those that covenant with Him and then break that covenant.  I am of the notion that the problems of the last days are not so much what comes from those that do not "Know" (covenant) with G-d as it is those that make sacred covenants - and do not "Keep" them.

2. Sometimes I think the Saints do not understand the peace of G-d.  In mortality the Saints of G-d are never "safe".  The concept of peace and safety - I believe - applies mostly to a willingness to die (endure to the end) and rely upon G-d (faith) in the resurrection.  I believe it it possible that many (myself included) will suffer death during the tribulations of the Last-days.  I have thought it best to view the Last-days on a big screen from heaven - but I also realize that Jesus was willing to suffer much more than any of us will - righteousness is not a prevention of suffering but the power to endure suffering.  For those that Love G-d -- it is safer to suffer death than to forget our covenants and rely on the arm of flesh for safety.

3.  It is my understanding that eventually there will be a succession of the Saints from all the governing nations and laws currently on the earth and that Jesus Christ will finely reign as King (Supreme Suzerain - proctor and protector).  @JohnsonJones made reference to keeping the Sabbath holy.  I believe the purpose of keeping the Sabbath day holy is nothing more than preparing ourselves and our families for the coming of Christ - which includes being ready for the tribulations of the Saints.

4. It is my impression that we ought to worry less about the world and the sins of the un-G-dly and more about our own covenants and shining the light of Christ through our continuance's.   Our job is in essence (I believe) to be an example of keeping covenants and a call to "the righteous" to return to covenant with G-d.  Anyone can be a critic and complain about what others are doing.  What the world needs most is a good example.  

I apologize to the forum of my transgressions and failures and thank so many of you for your fine examples - not just the Saints but also others like @prisonchaplain.  I thank you for your contributions and supports - especially during my weaknesses.

 

The Traveler

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