NeedleinA

Apostle or GA in trouble??

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Just got off the phone with my son on his mission out in Utah 5 minutes ago. 
He said something has just happened with a GA or Apostle. I felt like he was trying to say something bad(?). I didn't get the impression is was something positive as he said it is hurting things out there right now. 

He was very hush about it as his companion and other missionaries were nearby.

Anyone have any idea what he could be referring to?

Edited by NeedleinA

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There was a minor kerfluffle earlier this week because it turned out that family members of Elder Uchtdorf had donated to the Biden and other democrat campaigns using a family account in Elder Uchtdorf’s name.  Maybe that’s what your son was referring to?

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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26 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

There was a minor kerfluffle earlier this week because it turned out that family members of Elder Uchtdorf had donated to the Biden and other democrat campaigns using a family account in Elder Uchtdorf’s name.  Maybe that’s what your son was referring to?

That could very well be it. 
My son does mention fairly frequently that he sees heavy political divides out in Utah, so that would jive with that idea. 

Just glad it wasn't a 'I'm leaving the church' news type thing. Thanks JAG

Edited by NeedleinA

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3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

There was a minor kerfluffle earlier this week because it turned out that family members of Elder Uchtdorf had donated to the Biden and other democrat campaigns using a family account in Elder Uchtdorf’s name.  Maybe that’s what your son was referring to?

Wait.  A person from Germany was closer to liberal ideology than conservative ideology?  Quelle suprise.

Edited by Carborendum

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Wait.  A person from Germany was closer to liberal ideology than conservative ideology?  Quelle suprise.

Well, you see, if he’d donated to the GOP there would be a bunch of “think pieces” in local media wondering whether this had anything to do with Uchtdorf’s father’s relationship with the Nazi party . . .

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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So curiosity got the better of me, part of the article from Desert News:

Quote

The church issued a policy in 2011 against donations by senior, full-time church leaders. It states:

“General Authorities and general officers of the church and their spouses and other ecclesiastical leaders serving full-time should not personally participate in political campaigns, including promoting candidates, fundraising, speaking in behalf of or otherwise endorsing candidates and making financial contributions,”

The FEC’s website reports 11 donations over a four-and-a-half-month span for a total of $2,086.67 to three candidates..."


Makes total sense that General Authorities do not give any political financial contributions, to avoid such a thing as this.

My son described how the work is being hindered over political issues. I just reminded him that his testimony is independent of the actions of other members. I also reminded him that in the last days a sifting is taking place that will weed people out, ever over the smallest of reasons.

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FWIW, I don't see Dieter Uchtdorf, an apostle and former member of the First Presidency, disobeying a policy about political contributions. The most likely scenario in my mind is that Sister Uchtdorf gave the contributions, carelessly taking them from a joint account instead of first transferring the money to another account and then donating it. I think it would be wise if the First Presidency specified that no one in the household (meaning the wives of the apostles) give political contributions, either, but that is not the present policy as I understand it.

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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

I thought linking to porn sites wasn't allowed?

It about kills me anytime I link to a Salt Lake Tribulation article.  

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From what I read earlier this week, it it may have been a family member that made the donation in the family’s name but the default name was Elder Uchtdorf’s. Something to that effect.

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So...

No Laws were broken.

No Church Rules were broken.

It had an appearance of Rule breaking, when it wasn't.   That means the Rules need refinement / clearer guidance given.

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19 minutes ago, pam said:

It about kills me anytime I link to a Salt Lake Tribulation article.  

Here is the Desert News link instead with about the same information:
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/12/22326401/elder-dieter-uchtdorf-clarifies-family-campaign-donations-during-elections

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1 hour ago, pam said:

Wow:

Quote

The rule “seems a relic of a time when couples shared the finances,” the Bountiful resident said, “and not a very good reflection on the idea that women can and should make their own financial decisions including, in this case, supporting a candidate or cause they find important.”

Relic?

Something as big as politics and candidates should always be a joint decision.  It appears that someone wants some pigs to be more equal than others.

I'm really curious.  How many people here don't have joint banking accounts?  How many married couples here don't "share finances"?

Edited by Carborendum

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45 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

How many people here don't have joint banking accounts?  How many married couples here don't "share finances"?

IMO: both big red flags. One foot in the marriage and one foot out.
"If I need an exit strategy out of this marriage, at least our finances aren't intermingled", type of an attitude comes with separate accounts etc.

Edited by NeedleinA

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1 minute ago, NeedleinA said:

IMO: both big red flags. One foot in the marriage and one foot out.
"If I need an exit strategy out of this marriage, at least our finances aren't intermingled".

I feel the same. To be fair, I know couples who keep separate finances and who seem to get along well doing so.

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1 minute ago, Vort said:

I feel the same. To be fair, I know couples who keep separate finances and who seem to get along well doing so.

I wonder if they have separate beds too? 😉

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39 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Wow:

Relic?

Something as big as politics and candidates should always be a joint decision.  It appears that someone wants some pigs to be more equal than others.

I'm really curious.  How many people here don't have joint banking accounts?  How many married couples here don't "share finances"?

Me and my spouse have various different accounts.  Some are shared, and we each have our own private spending account.  We share "finances" as you would, as she is the primary budgeter in the home, but we each get an allowance that we can spend as we want to or as we wish. 

It has been easier over the years to each have at least a little bit of money each month where we can spend with our own choices and personal decisions than having to refer to the other before spending the money first.

In the case of Elder Uchtdorf, I don't know if this is what is being referred to or not.  I suppose with some very conservative leaning members they may be throwing a fit, but it is not something that is going to get him in trouble as far as I know.  He didn't actually donate himself as far as I know.

There are regulations that were put out that ask that certain Positions in the church refrain from making such public donations.  This is because the Church is striving to be politically neutral.  Favoring one side or the other can be a hinderance to the Church, especially in matters of missionary work and working with various governments to further the missions of the church.

His wife, as a free agent of her own, and having her own rights and freedoms in the United States as well as Germany, and who is considered an independent person and individual in her own right was the one who was donating as far as I have heard.  The Church is not in the business of dictating that family members must adhere to the same rules as those who are either employees or leadership in the church.  She was doing it under an account though that was, for some reason, still under an account which also had Elder Uchtdorf's name attached.  However, it was her donating to the party.

This does not necessarily mean that Elder Uchtdorf voted or supported that party.

Traditionally, in many elections, though me and my spouse discuss it, we will vote for different candidates from different parties.  It is common for one of us to vote for a Republican and another for a Democrat, or other such occurrences.  We are both individuals with minds and our own opinions, and the ability to express it as we desire according to the freedoms currently granted to us in the nations which we reside.

That his wife donated should be perfectly fine, though the way it was done should be performed in a different manner in the future.  I'm sure he has gotten and earful and heard enough on this matter already, especially from certain irate members.

That said, I'm not sure how this could be him in trouble at all.  He is not in trouble as far as I know.  Not sure how or why anyone would interpret it in that manner.

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1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

IMO: both big red flags. One foot in the marriage and one foot out.
"If I need an exit strategy out of this marriage, at least our finances aren't intermingled", type of an attitude comes with separate accounts etc.

Sometimes when I'm guilty of some minor offense, my wife will threaten to sue me for everything I have.  I simply respond:  Go ahead and take everything in my bank account.

She says, "OK.  That's done.  So, you want some dinner?" 

"You buying?"

"Yeah, sure.  But we'll need to use your card.  I can't find mine."

"Well, as long as it's your money."

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1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

I wonder if they have separate beds too? 😉

I know a couple who felt like they weren't getting a good night's sleep in the same bed, so they got separate beds. A year or two later, they bought a king bed for the two of them, because their marriage was suffering from the separate beds. To each his own.

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

I know a couple who felt like they weren't getting a good night's sleep in the same bed, so they got separate beds. A year or two later, they bought a king bed for the two of them, because their marriage was suffering from the separate beds. To each his own.

By the time I came around, my paternal grandparents slept in separate beds.  That kind of explains why my father was an only child.  And they stayed together until my grandfather died.

I don't know how that worked out -- on a number of levels.

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39 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

By the time I came around, my paternal grandparents slept in separate beds.  That kind of explains why my father was an only child.  And they stayed together until my grandfather died.

I don't know how that worked out -- on a number of levels.

We've had a King or California King our entire marriage, it has been a blessing.
Worst part about going on a vacation is getting stuck on a full or queen mattress together. It makes for two unhappy people in the morning.

I get why some people get separate beds... space/movement, snoring, tv on late, etc. I believe there are workarounds for each. Separate beds are one thing... separate rooms, however, is a realm that I'm not sure many non-elderly marriages can survive.

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2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Wow:

Quote

The rule “seems a relic of a time when couples shared the finances,” the Bountiful resident [Emily Jensen of Dialogue] said, “and not a very good reflection on the idea that women can and should make their own financial decisions including, in this case, supporting a candidate or cause they find important.”

Relic?

Something as big as politics and candidates should always be a joint decision.  It appears that someone wants some pigs to be more equal than others.

I'm really curious.  How many people here don't have joint banking accounts?  How many married couples here don't "share finances"?

I saw that quote too and rolled my eyes pretty hard. This happened because the "progmo's apostle" uses a joint account. Sounds to me like the policy addresses a current reality and not some outdated "relic". Sister Jensen, if this policy is for "a time when couples shared the finances," then the policy is for today - with these leaders who share finances as a couple.

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11 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

We've had a King or California King our entire marriage, it has been a blessing.
Worst part about going on a vacation is getting stuck on a full or queen mattress together. It makes for two unhappy people in the morning.

I get why some people get separate beds... space/movement, snoring, tv on late, etc. I believe there are workarounds for each. Separate beds are one thing... separate rooms, however, is a realm that I'm not sure many non-elderly marriages can survive.

We slept on a double bed when we first married. We graduated to a queen, which seemed pretty  huge. Then at some point we got a king. I got lost in the real estate. I actually regret getting a king. My wife has trouble sleeping with me now if we're not in our king, and that ain't how it should be.

I remember some Reader's Digest-type anecdote about an older couple being asked about their separate beds. The husband responded, "I throw a shoe over to her bed, and she either throws it back or brings it back."

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When I first got married I was living in a studio apartment with a twin bed.  We got married and after a week of 2 of us trying to sleep in that twin, we got a bigger apartment with a much bigger bed. 

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