bytor2112

Mark of the Beast??

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Perhaps only speculation on exactly what the mark of the beast will actually look like is futile (for us at least).

John says straight up: "This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666." So if you are that guy, you know who you are and are holding out on us! ;-)

Like PC said, it sounds like a visible tattoo. Used to weed out dissenters? (possibly in the name of national security?)

I doubt it is wise to write off the whole book of Revelation as pure "spiritual encouragement" or symbolism/propaganda. If that were true, then we may as well forget about the part where Jesus opens a can o' whoop-ass on Satan, conquers death forever and wipes away all our tears. That said, why bother to try and fit past historical events into the Book and say they are the fulfillment? Usually those attempts look like a square peg in a round hole!

For example: yes the Roman empire mandated that everyone worship the emperor once a year, and each person was given a certificate good for one year saying, "Domitian Rocks!" And of course, those Christians who took issue with worshiping the emperor we fed to the lions. But nowhere did the Roman government put visible marks on the "loyal" ones! And if we say that we exhibit the mark of the beast whenever we think bad thoughts or sin with our right hand, then we're toast because those that receive the mark don't turn out so well.

I think the fulfillment of most prophecy is only clear after the fact. I doubt that when the Anti-Christ finally institutes it that many Christians living then will be surprised to find out who he really is...

but then again...

Obama for Anti-Christ, '08!!! yeah baby! whoo-hoo!!

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And I don't remember any commandment saying: Thou shalt not speculate?

Argh! Why don't you try reading it sometime! Thou shalt not speculate is found in The Book of Opinions. It's that special book of the bible that contains everything you know to be in the bible, but can't locate because it's not in any other book of the bible.

Thou shalt not speculate is right between two other important verses, Thou shalt not eat cockroaches and thou shalt not send a text message while driving.

:D

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Isn't Obama the anti-Christ. Read the news and there's no doubt it, the rhetoric sure makes him sound like he's the anti-Christ.

Then there is this video from McCain on Youtube:

Hahah, good one!

Wait... Just so I know I'm on the same page, you -were- kidding, right? 'Cause there are nutbars on the Internet who just might believe that.

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That video was a crack-up!

If you've ever read the Left Behind series, then you probably get a kick out of the similarities between the fictional anti-Christ "Nicolae Carpathia" and Mr. Obama. They both can "do no wrong."

random side note: have you seen the video of Paris Hilton's energy plan?

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Well.. its this false prophet and the antichrist. They have an android with them and put some technical device on everybody.. Well.. maybe.. But this mark, we dont know what it is, why speculate and argue about it to much when we have so few references about what it could be. Except for giants and nephilim. There are a lot of evidences. Keep track on the right side and i think this will appear in daylight to us when it happens. It will be the world that will be in darkness then. Until then. do some research on other things that are more likely to be solved and understood.

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Sometimes Traveler, speculation is all we can do. And I don't remember any commandment saying: Thou shalt not speculate? We still see through a "glass darkly", nothing wrong is wondering what the future holds.

The Book of Revelation has special limitations - especially for speculation: Revelation 22:18 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book. If any man shall add to these things, G-d shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

If you can explain to me how anyone can speculate about something in the Book of Revelation without adding something to it – I would be most happy to entertain such an idea.

I am a great fan of speculation and believe speculation is a prime engine of science but to the Book of Revelation – I think is should stand in its context. If someone does not understand the Book of Revelation – It is my opinion that it be left alone and that we move on to things we can and do understand.

The Traveler

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If we 'treasure up' those items we consider important, if wrong, the Spirit will help to correct it by means we can understand. A good example, I desire to know what the previous fathers knew about our universe and earth. It came by line-upon-line over the years to cumulate now of “what was, what is, what shall be”. As my old world conceived learning was put to rest, my understanding is broadened by replacing man’s theories and speculation with one of truth and confirmation. The problem you will face, many in the church cannot even understand the basics truths that are given in Genesis, Book of Moses, or the Book of Abraham. We face those who will mingle truths with media fantasy. What was given to John we can also receive the same truths...

We are commanded to learn all we can in this probation, as to our talents and known abilities can achieve. Even the canonized works, we are too read, ponder, and formulate what we suspect is the correct answer. Then we ask whether it be true or not.

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The Book of Revelation has special limitations - especially for speculation: Revelation 22:18 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book. If any man shall add to these things, G-d shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

If you can explain to me how anyone can speculate about something in the Book of Revelation without adding something to it – I would be most happy to entertain such an idea.

I am a great fan of speculation and believe speculation is a prime engine of science but to the Book of Revelation – I think is should stand in its context. If someone does not understand the Book of Revelation – It is my opinion that it be left alone and that we move on to things we can and do understand.

First, l appreciate the irony of your use of this passage, since it is often used (incorrectly) as a prooftext against the BoM. Second, discussing how prophecy might be fulfilled is not a violation of John's command here. Adding text to his prophecy, or canonizing versions of his prophecy that add or subtract--that would be a violation worthy of the curses. Otherwise, you condemn any teaching, any commentary, even any fictional writings (i.e. Left Behind). God has gifted some as teachers. We do well to learn from them, but we do not consider their instruction to be canon.

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Isn't Obama the anti-Christ. Read the news and there's no doubt it, the rhetoric sure makes him sound like he's the anti-Christ.

Then there is this video from McCain on Youtube:

Where are the moderators on this one?

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I doubt any significant national leader since the 1st Century A.D. has gone unsuspected of being 'the Anti-Christ' by someone somewhere.

Since the formation of the political state of Israel in the mid 20th Century, and now the arrival of what we call globalism, suspicion is at an all-time high.

Many judge the strength of the United States by its unity, but we must take comfort in our diversity and remember the lessons offered by other nations unified to mischief motivated by widespread fear and suspicion among which are those as poignant as Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.

The notion of a character of supreme authority holding the globe under open malignancies of anti-christian horror becomes a compelling force on those motivated by such fears. It was the fear of the 'Jewish Conspiracy' the led so many to brutality against innocents in Europe and the dread of the 'Capitalist Conspiracy' that caused masses to run towards Communism.

Most poignant of all was the extermination of the babes of Bethlehem and the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth upon the cross by misinformed and fearful men who sought to evaporate a perceived rising tide of change of political power.

2 Timothy 1:7: 'For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.'

-a-train

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2008 at 7:01 AM, bytor2112 said:

I remember when all of those books....Left Behind Series were very popular ...

Of course, that series was fiction. And, from a literary standpoint the writing was, well, non-literary. Nevertheless, the Bible teacher, Tim LaHaye, and the writer, Jerry Jenkins, did something pretty incredible. The produced a highly popular near-future, Christian end times novel series. Their interpretation was, in theological terms, "premillennial, pre-tribulation rapture, literalist." Many Evangelicals fit the first two descriptions, and would lay claim to be literalists. However, LaHaye and Jenkins took the happenings described in Revelation as literally as possible. As such, the story is quite fascinating. Honestly, if you want to know how most Evangelicals believe the end times will be, a read of the Left Behind series--even just the first novel--will give you a pretty good tasting. For an even lazier effort, watch the movie--not the one produced a few years ago with Nicholas Cage--the one from the 1990s that went straight to video. The production values are weak, but it is much more faithful to the novel. That said, if anyone has questions, I do subscribe to premillennial, pre-tribulation rapture understanding of the end times . . .

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2008 at 7:29 AM, hordak said:

I've alway thought it was symbolic like everything else in the chapter.

People are constantly wright books or coming up with a new theory on the mark of the beast, ssn,credit cards,micro chips etc. but i don't buy that. ...

I suspect the mark of the Beast will be something literal and physical. On the other hand, I agree that the conspiracy theorists mostly get it wrong. The mark will be a badge of honor for most--and an open defiance of the Creator. People will take it because they intend to oppose God. In my dabbling with end-times fiction writing, I tend to present this by saying that government authorities and popular culture will come to view and declare that the one Creator God is real, but that he is immoral--a cosmic tyrant. Taking the mark will be a citizen's way of declaring independence from that deity.

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2008 at 8:16 AM, hordak said:

Yeah I used to get pamphlets from such a group.Can't remember the name.According to them Catholics are the "whore of babelon" they talked about the EU and Hurricane Katrina etc. Interesting reading but some of it is far fetched IMO.

This is not common Evangelical teaching. I have my suspicion about which denomination those kinds of pamphlets come from, but don't want to make false public accusations. I can tell you that most Christian bookstores carry Catholic items and the majority of Protestants (and probably Evangelicals) view Catholics as mistaken on some issues, but would say the sincere faithful are probably saved.

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