Trouble with 15 yr old and bishop interview

[The Folk Prophet]

I find some of her points valid.

 

Points and actions are distinctly different.

[Backroads]

Fair enough.

[The Folk Prophet]

Cancelled: girl’s camp

 

May I suggest that this may (and I emphasize "may") not be the best idea. Girl's camp can and should be a highly spiritual influence for good with a large focus on testimony building. Would it be appropriate to add in there: "Cancelled: church" as a punishment? Know what I mean?

[Guest]

Consequences for lying to the Bishop, making a digital recording of it and sharing it with friends.

1. Grounded until further notice. Will attend church, school and home. Nothing else.
2. Cancelled: all extra-curricular activities; region track meet, debate team, performances.
3. No movies or parties or activities with friends, except YM/YW.
4. Bedtime 9:00 pm. Get up at 5:00 am.
5. Family prayer and scripture study twice daily. No more skips for FHE.
6. About half her cloths confiscated; collarbone, elbows and near the ankles the boundaries.
7. No more make-up, jewelry or color streaks in hair.
8. No more coca-cola, candy or other junk foods.
9. Drivers permit on hold, no more driving.
10. The red sports car intended for her to be sold.

School will be out shortly and for the summer:

1. Summer job as life guard at a community pool not permitted.
2. Cancelled: girl’s camp, temple trip, family vacation.
3. Daily exercise on programmable treadmill with documentation of HR over 170 for 1 hr.
4. Work in garden for 4 hr. a day. Back yard to be roto-tilled by me and large garden put in.
5. Paint the inside of the house, one room each week. Kitchen- 2 weeks.
6. Additional chore list as determined by mother.
7. Practice the piano for I hr. a day after finishing other tasks.
8. Summer reading list; Ensign back issues 2012, 2013 and this year to date.
9. Memorize the pamphlet: For the Strength of Youth. Pass off portions each week.
10. ***We’re going back to 1920 with communication devices!!!

No cell phone, computer, social media. No TV, radio, telephone, etc.

Nothing that uses electricity to communicate.

 

She read the list and smiled. “You know, I have already won.” The bishop will never interview me again without a chaperone. All of my friends will either request chaperones or secretly record their interviews. Even if they don’t record then, it will always be in the back of the bishop’s mind, this conversation could be recorded. That alone is worth a summer going Amish.

 

She continued, not only has the recording been shared with friends at school, it is making its way slowly into other wards and stakes. She claims she has received dozens of messages from LDS girls from other places and most of them relate being uncomfortable with the bishop interviews and express solidarity with her. She knew she couldn’t change the whole church but she has changed the ward and done more than she expected.

 

 She pointed out that many of my consequences are also rather inconvenient for us as her parents. We are going to find out who is strong and who is weak in following them, she retorted. You love that red car more than I do, for example. It will give me delight watching you sell it.

 

 I mentioned there was a way out for her. If she had actually been molested by another person, not the bishop but anyone else, it might explain her actions. The consequences could be modified. She laughed and replied, do you want me to make something else up again? Don’t be ridiculous.  If anyone did something like that to me I would have my friends make it so not worth it. I don’t use drugs but I have friends who sell them. I could black-mail them into doing practically anything. Don’t worry dad, I’m a big girl now and I can take care of myself.

 

This morning she was up at 4:45 am, scriptures in hand, wearing a pioneer dress with a snarky smile.

 

Hmmm... just my opinion - please remember, there is no wrong parenting - everyone has their own way of dealing with things.  But, this is not what I would do with my daughter.  And your daughter's reaction is what I would expect out of that.

 

Yes, I would exact consequences but this is not what it would be.  I don't use Church things to mete out as punishment.  FHE, Family Prayer, etc is not a punishment and should not be on this list!  They should be things that the Family as a Unit will promise to do - not as a punishment of actions but as a way to bring the Family to Christ.  This should be done regardless of whether the daughter did bad things or not.  I want my children to look at Church as a GOOD thing... A positive thing.  Something they want to do!

 

This is the same for Exercise - Exercise should not be punishment.  It should be a positive thing that you encourage as a GOOD thing.

 

Track Meet, Debate Team, Performances - are all positive things.  These are character developing activities.

 

Parties, yes - those need to be taken out - same with the Car.  But, I wouldn't get rid of the Car.  I'll demand payment for it.  So, job as a lifeguard - a positive thing - with whatever she earns to be used to pay for the car that she can't drive until she gets back into the right path.

 

Yes, a strict schedule is good - From this time to this time - chores, from this time to this time, piano, etc.  But, at her age, she will be the person to do everything in the house - I'm doing this for my 12 year old this Summer, and he's not being punished - we are going through the 12-year-old initiation to teenhood that I learned from my sister-in-law.  She put her 12-year-old (who is now 22) through his initiation on the Summer before his 13th bday.  All Summer long, the 12-year-old does EVERYTHING in the house that the mother does - that is - cook, clean, laundry, plan menus, budget grocery money, and go grocery shopping, etc.  This is not punishment.  This is training.  My 22-year-old nephew still says until today, that was the best summer of his life - and he has spent Summers in traveling to different countries!  Because of this, my nephew enjoys cooking, cleaning, etc., in his own way (he hates doing it if somebody is telling him to do it but when he graduates college and goes to live on his own, he'll have a spic and span house - he already has a spic and span room and car... he learned how to clean and keep things clean and cook healthy and delicious stuff that he likes - including things we don't like).  My kid is kinda excited and dreading this Summer... he's trying to get some pointers from his cousin.

 

Punishment for a teen-ager would be - no friends over, no parties, no phones, no computer, no TV, no movies, jewelry, or color streaks.  These are the "perks" of being teen-ager.  Everything else in the list she needs to do for Training - not as Punishment.  They're all POSITIVE things.  She should do them regardless of being in trouble or not.

 

I'm sorry... I guess I don't understand your method of discipline...

[The Folk Prophet]

Hmmm... just my opinion - please remember, there is no wrong parenting - everyone has their own way of dealing with things.  But, this is not what I would do with my daughter.  And your daughter's reaction is what I would expect out of that.

 

Yes, I would exact consequences but this is not what it would be.  I don't use Church things to mete out as punishment.  FHE, Family Prayer, etc is not a punishment and should not be on this list!  They should be things that the Family as a Unit will promise to do - not as a punishment of actions but as a way to bring the Family to Christ.

 

This is the same for Exercise - Exercise should not be punishment.  It should be a positive thing that you encourage as a GOOD thing.

 

Track Meet, Debate Team, Performances - are all positive things.  These are character developing activities.

 

Parties, yes - those need to be taken out - same with the Car.  But, I wouldn't get rid of the Car.  I'll demand payment for it.  So, job as a lifeguard - a positive thing - with whatever she earns to be used to pay for the car that she can't drive until she gets back into the right path.

 

Yes, a strict schedule is good - From this time to this time - chores, from this time to this time, piano, etc.  But, at her age, she will be the person to do everything in the house - I'm doing this for my 12 year old this Summer, and he's not being punished - we are going through the 12-year-old initiation to teenhood that I learned from my sister-in-law.  She put her 12-year-old (who is now 22) through his initiation on the Summer before his 13th bday.  All Summer long, the 12-year-old does EVERYTHING in the house that the mother does - that is - cook, clean, laundry, plan menus, budget grocery money, and go grocery shopping, etc.  This is not punishment.  This is training.  My 22-year-old nephew still says until today, that was the best summer of his life - and he has spent Summers in traveling to different countries!  My kid is kinda excited and dreading this Summer... he's trying to get some pointers from his cousin.

 

Punishment for a teen-ager would be - no friends over, no parties, no phones, no computer, no TV, no movies.  These are the "perks" of being teen-ager.  Everything else in the list she needs to do for Training - not as Punishment.  They're all POSITIVE things.  She should do them regardless of being in trouble or not.

 

I'm sorry... I guess I don't understand your method of discipline...

 

To be fair, I'm not sure the entire list was meant as a punishment, but rather a laying down of the law, including punishments. But I agree with your thoughts.

 

I think a more important issue is that punishment of this nature is unlikely to fix the problem. I'm not expert on raising teenagers, but it seems to me that this approach may increase the rebellious attitude, rather than help it to improve, which I believe is part of your point. If having FHE is viewed as a punishment in response to misbehavior it's hardly likely to teach a love of FHE.

[Guest]

To be fair, I'm not sure the entire list was meant as a punishment, but rather a laying down of the law, including punishments. But I agree with your thoughts.

 

I think a more important issue is that punishment of this nature is unlikely to fix the problem. I'm not expert on raising teenagers, but it seems to me that this approach may increase the rebellious attitude, rather than help it to improve, which I believe is part of your point. If having FHE is viewed as a punishment in response to misbehavior it's hardly likely to teach a love of FHE.

 

Okay, I was a rebellious teenager.  They call me the Black Sheep.

 

I know from experience, I don't respond to fire.  I welcome it.  Because, that was why I rebelled!  I wanted to get a rise out of my parents!  The madder they got, the more inclined I was to repeat it.  The more torture they heap on me, the more I can bad mouth them to my friends and get sympathy!

 

From my rebellious phase, I remember dinstinctly 2 events that got me:

1.)  I was always instigating fights between the siblings.  My purpose was to get my siblings in trouble.  One of my siblings was the "Joseph" in our Family.  He was always doing the right things and my parents adored him.  It was hard for me to get him in trouble because I can't tempt him to do things.  But, one day, we got into a fight and my mom heard it.  I ran to my mom in tears spinning this yarn about how my brother did this and that.  My brother stayed silent.  So, my mom took 3 sticks out of a stick broom and whacked my brother on the arm with it 3 times.  It produced 9 red, angry welts.  I was smiling behind my mom's back.  After my mom was done lecturing my brother, my brother looked at me calmly and showed me the red welts and said, "This is what you did.  Remember this.".  And he walked off.

 

I never tried to get him in trouble ever again... and sure enough, I still remember it until today.

 

2.)  I was in some fight with my dad - he banned me from doing something - gosh, I can't even remember what it was anymore.  He would yell at me, I would yell at hime back, he would smack me with his belt and make me kneel infront of the altar with my hands outstretched to the side with Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer on an outstretched palm and Aesop's Fables and Hans Christian Andersen on the other while I recite the rosary... I would kneel down with my head up and a defiant look reciting the rosary very slowly... so my dad would smack me again.  This went on for a while until I went and got my hair cut.  My dad has always loved my long hair.  He did not want me to cut it - it ran down almost to my butt.  So, I went and got a friend to take me to the salon and I had it cut like the girl in Roxette... I thought I looked ugly, but I was excited to show my dad... I walked in the house and my dad looked at my hair, shook his head and went about his business.

 

Fight ended right there.  It took a loooooooonnnggg time to grow that hair back.

 

But, even at my hottest phase of rebellion... I never really went beyond the point-of-no-return with the boundaries.  I tested it, stretched it to the max, railed at it... but I knew why they were there and knew my parents are looking out for me.  They set the boundaries and took the time to explain why they are there.  Every dinnertime, we are not allowed to run off until my dad has finished his "lecture".  We would talk about anything and everything - the lecture usually starts with a rundown of our accomplishments of the day and then the bad things we did and then my dad would go into what's in the newspaper... The interesting thing is - my dad told us that if we don't sit still after eating, we could get appendicitis - he even took the anatomy drawing from the medical book and showed us how the food is going through the intestines and when we run around the intestine would shake therefore letting food particles get wedged in the appendix!  Yeah, I believed that thing until I graduated from college...

 

[Tricia87]

Am I the only one who finds this story a bit over the top as it goes on? Seems someone's getting played and maybe not the bishop

[yjacket]

One of the things I have learned as a parent is consistency (and I am no model for it, but I do my best and it is hard).  Children have a way of just intuitively knowing (and testing) "does Dad really mean what he says?".  It is extremely important to know when to be hard as a rock and on what things.  i.e. I don't micro-manage the kids, but when I do tell them to do something, I mean it. 

 

I agree 100% with the training vs. punishment comments.  Training are things that are done, just because they build character.  When I was about 15 my dad had me dig a ditch 2 feet deep 6 inches wide for about 100 yards, not as punishment but as a character building.  (Ah those were the days, swinging a pick-ax, listening to the radio . . . it was somewhere around then that I decided I was going to college so I wouldn't have to do manual labor for the rest of my life).  FHE, going to church, chores, etc are all things that should just be done regardless of what the child does.

 

The more punishment does not always equal better punishment.  One time (I was again prob. 14 or so), I lied to my dad.  I expected to get a beating, he simply looked at me and told me how terribly disappointed he was in me and how he wasn't sure when he would be able to trust me . . . my heart was crushed on the floor.

 

It is obvious that you care very much about your daughter and you are worried for her.  Sometimes no matter what we do as parents it doesn't work out.  That is where faith in the Atonement comes in, that we will do our best and that it will work out.

 

John Rosemond . . . I'm serious he is awesome.  His parenting techniques have saved me.

 

One thing I've learned in life is that everyone acts in what they believe to be in their own best interest.  Your daughters perceives her actions as in her best interest, for whatever reason, be it to get attention, to cause others to worry about her, etc.

 

The key is to find out what makes her tick, what really gets through and then when you find it and enforce the discipline on it, she will probably howl and scream and pitch a fit.  That is when you are tested to not give in.

 

In any discipline, the child has to feel the pain not the parent.  If it is the parent feeling the pain, taking ownership of it then it is the wrong way.  It is the child's problem, they need to feel the pain and then they need to fix it.

[Bini]

I responded cos I wanted to touch on a couple thoughts but I had no doubts from the get-go this was bogus. I actually saw a similar post on FB... Might be a circulating phony story amongst some disgruntled members... Or just a troll having fun :)

[classylady]

I responded cos I wanted to touch on a couple thoughts but I had no doubts from the get-go this was bogus. I actually saw a similar post on FB... Might be a circulating phony story amongst some disgruntled members... Or just a troll having fun :)

 

Agreed.  Bogus.

[AngelMarvel]

Right from the start I figured it was not legit... but, I really was interested in how people would respond to something like this. I think even when these posts are bogus... it gives us all a chance to read and learn. There are a lot of good comments in this thread and I appreciate those that stepped up and gave their input.

[Palerider]

If this is all true....my next suggestion would be if I were a Bishop.....time for some Family Counciling ...too many issues at work here. Need to start with LDS Social Services

[Wingnut]

She read the list and smiled. “You know, I have already won.”

 

This gives me serious pause.  The fact that an obviously rebellious and instigating teenage girl had virtually no reaction to such a stringent list of consequences tells me that she's not done yet.  And that she doesn't care.  That does not bode well for her in the future.  And honestly, one more incident like this, and I think I'd make her prove the last statement:

 

 

Don’t be ridiculous.  If anyone did something like that to me I would have my friends make it so not worth it. I don’t use drugs but I have friends who sell them. I could black-mail them into doing practically anything. Don’t worry dad, I’m a big girl now and I can take care of myself.

 

 

Am I the only one who finds this story a bit over the top as it goes on? Seems someone's getting played and maybe not the bishop

 

The OP was shocking to me, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.  The follow-up posts have had me more suspicious, though.  I just did a Google search of mormon bishop teenage girl recording interview and after four pages, couldn't find anything.  Most hits referred to record-keeping, and those that referring to this topic did so vaguely ("someday some teen boy/girl is going to record the interview...").

[Guest]

Troll or not... these things can happen.  Many teen-agers rebel in many different ways that is just as terrible as this.

 

And this is why it is very important to parent early.  You don't want the kids to get to this point and be totally beyond your control without you having had a chance to instill some morals in them.  My husband rebelled when he was 16.  He got kicked out of the house even.  Left the church and everything.  But, even through all that, he retained his testimony of the church and went back to what he knew was moral and left behind all the stupidity when he finally grew up.

[Bini]

Of course, there's no proof OP is a troll, but I think we're being taken on a ride :) Like I said, had that feeling from the get-go but felt strongly enough to respond concerning bishops interviewing underage kids on certain sensitive issues.

[pam]

Yet we don't know if the OP is not legit so let's assume that it is and move on.

[Just_A_Guy]

Shepard:

 

I'm sorry to say that you've not handled this situation productively at all--even if this girl is just a scheming manipulator (and heaven help you all if she's actually right and the bishop really is a pedophile).

 

Family therapy, my friend.  ASAP.

[estradling75]

Did you know that 12 states require all parties to consent to the recording of a conversion? Without such consent such a recording breaks the law an opens up the person to legal action

[Irishcolleen]

I hope the situation IS fake.  If it isn't there is a family and a ward with major issues.  Unfortunately there are people who like to play off of perceived "peculiarities" of the LDS and try to cause trouble.  It is terrible because it gets in the way of honest communication and learning. I have grown from animosity to love towards Mormons in my months here.  Not that I'd ever convert- I just have a greater understanding and appreciation for them as individuals and I can't wait for my hubby to find a job in Utah.

[applepansy]

Applepansy; Scary.

She is not primarily a liar, but uses deception to achieve another agenda. Perhaps worse in some ways. What would you have done differently with your son?

 

I would have gotten help sooner.  I would have been clearer about expectations and consequences and hopefully without as much anger and hurt.  Actually I would do anything at all.  Nobody believed me though.  It wasn't until he started stealing from grandparents that they started to believe we had a problem and even then my inlaws didn't understand.  Thankfully my parents did..  He died in a car accident in 1999.

 

Looking back I'm not sure I could have done anything to change my son.  We did all we knew how to do and we did try everything we could find.  He had to choose to change.  We don't get to take someone's agency away.  All we could do is teach correct principles, put in place appropriate consequences and PRAY!   I think people like my son are given to us as a test.  The test:  Are you going to be Christ-like regardless of how badly someone acts?  Since my son died I've had the opportunity to talk to other parents who struggle with a child's choices.  I've also gotten close with a neighbor who has behaved badly his whole life.  My husband was him home teacher and one of the few people who could get in the house.  It took years.  Someone said at his funeral "If 'neighbor's name' hadn't shot at you at least once you weren't a friend."  We learned a lot when he got sick about his family (strong LDS) and about how he acted when he was young (difficult for his parents).  He was another person I think was here as a test.

 

I don't know what to tell you about how to deal with your daughter other than to be blatantly honest, consistent with boundaries and consequences, and PRAY.  Oh... and keep her name on the temple prayer roll.  When my son was in his early teens I would start feeling uneasy about him.  I'd put his name on the prayer roll and within 24 hours I would find out what was going on.  I started telling him I'd put his name on the prayer roll.  After a few times of watching me find out so quickly what he was up to, he would just tell me.  Me: Scott, I put your name on the prayer roll today.  Scott: Big sigh... then well Mom you're gong to find out so .... and he would proceed to tell me what he'd done.  

 

He had faith in God.  He was quick to ask for a priesthood blessing when he was sick.  Even when he'd been gone for 6 months and we get a call from the hospital that he's in the ER.  The first thing he's ask for when we got there was a blessing.  

 

I wish you all the best with your daughter.  I pray that she doesn't hurt too many people before she learns she's only hurting herself.

[applepansy]

Continued..

 

Sunday afternoon everyone was quiet, walking on eggshells. I recalled reading somewhere that you can never win arguments with teenagers. The words of the bishop sank deeply into my mind. I prayerfully made a list of consequences of her actions. I met with her in the family room alone in the evening. I explained simply and calmly that her behavior in connection with the recording of the bishop was wrong and as her father I was going to impose consequences. I handed the list to her. Here it is:

Consequences for lying to the Bishop, making a digital recording of it and sharing it with friends.

1. Grounded until further notice. Will attend church, school and home. Nothing else.
2. Cancelled: all extra-curricular activities; region track meet, debate team, performances.
3. No movies or parties or activities with friends, except YM/YW.
4. Bedtime 9:00 pm. Get up at 5:00 am.
5. Family prayer and scripture study twice daily. No more skips for FHE.
6. About half her cloths confiscated; collarbone, elbows and near the ankles the boundaries.
7. No more make-up, jewelry or color streaks in hair.
8. No more coca-cola, candy or other junk foods.
9. Drivers permit on hold, no more driving.
10. The red sports car intended for her to be sold.

School will be out shortly and for the summer:

1. Summer job as life guard at a community pool not permitted.
2. Cancelled: girl’s camp, temple trip, family vacation.
3. Daily exercise on programmable treadmill with documentation of HR over 170 for 1 hr.
4. Work in garden for 4 hr. a day. Back yard to be roto-tilled by me and large garden put in.
5. Paint the inside of the house, one room each week. Kitchen- 2 weeks.
6. Additional chore list as determined by mother.
7. Practice the piano for I hr. a day after finishing other tasks.
8. Summer reading list; Ensign back issues 2012, 2013 and this year to date.
9. Memorize the pamphlet: For the Strength of Youth. Pass off portions each week.
10. ***We’re going back to 1920 with communication devices!!!

No cell phone, computer, social media. No TV, radio, telephone, etc.

Nothing that uses electricity to communicate.

 

She read the list and smiled. “You know, I have already won.” The bishop will never interview me again without a chaperone. All of my friends will either request chaperones or secretly record their interviews. Even if they don’t record then, it will always be in the back of the bishop’s mind, this conversation could be recorded. That alone is worth a summer going Amish.

 

She continued, not only has the recording been shared with friends at school, it is making its way slowly into other wards and stakes. She claims she has received dozens of messages from LDS girls from other places and most of them relate being uncomfortable with the bishop interviews and express solidarity with her. She knew she couldn’t change the whole church but she has changed the ward and done more than she expected.

 

 She pointed out that many of my consequences are also rather inconvenient for us as her parents. We are going to find out who is strong and who is weak in following them, she retorted. You love that red car more than I do, for example. It will give me delight watching you sell it.

 

 I mentioned there was a way out for her. If she had actually been molested by another person, not the bishop but anyone else, it might explain her actions. The consequences could be modified. She laughed and replied, do you want me to make something else up again? Don’t be ridiculous.  If anyone did something like that to me I would have my friends make it so not worth it. I don’t use drugs but I have friends who sell them. I could black-mail them into doing practically anything. Don’t worry dad, I’m a big girl now and I can take care of myself.

 

This morning she was up at 4:45 am, scriptures in hand, wearing a pioneer dress with a snarky smile.

I like your list.  Regardless of the inconvenience stick to the consequences.  She doesn't understand yet that all parenting is inconvenient.

 

But... I'm troubled by her response in bold.  She hasn't learned yet and she might not ever learn.  What does she think will happen when another Bishop is called?  What if the person called is a person she respects?  What if that person is her grandfather or her father?  Some day... Maybe... I pray . ... she will learn.

 

I hope when you sell the car she starts to understand that you love her more than any earthly possession.

[applepansy]

I hope the situation IS fake.  If it isn't there is a family and a ward with major issues.  Unfortunately there are people who like to play off of perceived "peculiarities" of the LDS and try to cause trouble.  It is terrible because it gets in the way of honest communication and learning. I have grown from animosity to love towards Mormons in my months here.  Not that I'd ever convert- I just have a greater understanding and appreciation for them as individuals and I can't wait for my hubby to find a job in Utah.

 

As much as I might hope that this story is fake.  I've lived with a teenager who was determined to destroy our family and any other adult who got in the way of what he wanted.

 

The story is entirely plausible to me.  

[Leah]

I responded cos I wanted to touch on a couple thoughts but I had no doubts from the get-go this was bogus. I actually saw a similar post on FB... Might be a circulating phony story amongst some disgruntled members... Or just a troll having fun :)

My radar went off when I read the OP. It's currently the "in" thing amongst certain groups to attack the practice of bishops' interviews - and therefore the church - via the internet.

[prisonchaplain]

Outsider pondering string...

 

1.  What is appropriate in LDS interviews concering the LOC?  How many follow-up questions would be appropriate for a spiritual counselor to get a full understanding of what needs to happen?

 

2.  What is the status of the bishop as a counselor?  For example, pastors are not licensed counselors or psychologists.  We often will have one or more courses in short-term pastoral counseling.  Bishops usually would not have even that.  So, it is understood going in that they offer spiritual advise based upon the leading of the Holy Spirit, and upon their life experience.  That's it.  They should be held to the common standards of bishops, not to the professional standards of therapists or counselors or psychologists.

 

3.  As disturbing as some of the questioning may have been, I doubt that a law enforcement investigation will go far.  Spiritual leaders have some protection and privacy expectations during confessionals.  Granted, this is not a Catholic rite.  Nevertheless, it is an established practice in your church.

 

4.  If the interview and temple activity are optional for this age group, and the daughter is angered by it and opposed to it, why press the issue?  Attendance at church should be mandatory, but not spiritual work that assumes willingness and devotion.

 

5.  Recording the interview and posting it was a horrific violation against the bishop--whether he was creepy or not.  Yet, the daughter, according to the narrative, feels justified.  The consequences should be enforced, even if they were not all necessarily what some would recommend.  A decision was made.  None of the restrictions were abusive.  The girl is a teen.  If she determines that it was worth then, for her, it was.

 

6.  If there is a feeling among the parents that the bishop was out of line, then talk with him one more time.  Then, in accordance with church protocol, report it up the line, and let the counsel of many shed light.

[Palerider]

Outsider pondering string...

 

1.  What is appropriate in LDS interviews concering the LOC?  How many follow-up questions would be appropriate for a spiritual counselor to get a full understanding of what needs to happen?

 

2.  What is the status of the bishop as a counselor?  For example, pastors are not licensed counselors or psychologists.  We often will have one or more courses in short-term pastoral counseling.  Bishops usually would not have even that.  So, it is understood going in that they offer spiritual advise based upon the leading of the Holy Spirit, and upon their life experience.  That's it.  They should be held to the common standards of bishops, not to the professional standards of therapists or counselors or psychologists.

 

3.  As disturbing as some of the questioning may have been, I doubt that a law enforcement investigation will go far.  Spiritual leaders have some protection and privacy expectations during confessionals.  Granted, this is not a Catholic rite.  Nevertheless, it is an established practice in your church.

 

4.  If the interview and temple activity are optional for this age group, and the daughter is angered by it and opposed to it, why press the issue?  Attendance at church should be mandatory, but not spiritual work that assumes willingness and devotion.

 

5.  Recording the interview and posting it was a horrific violation against the bishop--whether he was creepy or not.  Yet, the daughter, according to the narrative, feels justified.  The consequences should be enforced, even if they were not all necessarily what some would recommend.  A decision was made.  None of the restrictions were abusive.  The girl is a teen.  If she determines that it was worth then, for her, it was.

 

6.  If there is a feeling among the parents that the bishop was out of line, then talk with him one more time.  Then, in accordance with church protocol, report it up the line, and let the counsel of many shed light.

Councilors are not allowed to talk worthiness issues with anyone. They are suppose to stop interview and get the Bishop involved. If you interview a youth or Sister the door should always be unlocked and with a youth the door could be cracked open. You always want someone sitting outside the door while interviewing a youth or sister.

Bishops attend what's called Bishops training and there should learn about interviewing and etc. Sometimes the church physiologist will come around and answer questions during this time. You can also call them anytime on phone and they will help you with situations. I have a brother who is not a member of church but is a physiologist and I would bounce things off him for his opinion.

I had a member who was not active in church for many years. She came back into full activity and eventually approached me and said we need to talk. She stated to me that she did lots of things that were not right and needed to get them off her chest. I said where do we start. She said I have done it all from A- Z. I did not ask any questions in regards to what she just said. I did ask how are you living your life now? She stated I am doing good and it feels great to be back. I said we love you and welcome back ....now let's move forward and assured her that Heavenly Father was pleased and happy with her.

If a youth told me they had broken the law of charity I would ask....how bad did you break it? Meaning were you petting or did you go much further. I don't want to know details I want to know how serious or what lines were crossed. I would also ask if the other person was a member of our church or someone else. Once I have that info I would talk with youth about what was going to happen next to correct situation etc..

I would be very upset to find out it was all recorded without my knowledge or consent.