Thoughts on babyfeeding in the church

[Backroads]

So the Salt Lake Tribune ran an article recently. I shall not link it because I don't find that paper fit to line my hamster's cage. But I sort of watched this from the beginning to do those dreaded Facebook mom groups.

The story goes is a woman was breastfeeding at church. People complained, bishop asked her to stop, she said she wouldn't, bishop took her temple recommend away as well as that of her husband's for not commanding her better, yada yada. I don't know how much is true or exaggerated, but now there's a call or petition or something for LDS leadership to not condemn breastfeeding as sexual.
 

Now, I've breastfed at church. I've done it in the mother's lounge, though I don't always like to because it's tiny, tends towards crowding, and smells of diapers. Plus it has no speaker system. I've done it elsewhere. It's never been a problem. I am a tad rah-rah-breastfeeding and I lean toward "avert your own eyes as I'm trying my best not to flash you."

Ultimately, I don't know what really happened. While part of me is shocked at the notion the bishop took away recommends JUST because she was breastfeeding and JUST because her husband was on her side, I doubt it's so simple. I imagine a bigger hullabaloo went down that possibly did stem from this conversation.

I don't know if this is something the church should take a hard stand on. Is it a reoccuring problem? Does it support all cultures in the world-wide church? At the same time, is it a good idea, the breastfeeding being a few steps short of a strip tease, to mess with temple recommends?

 

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, Backroads said:

So the Salt Lake Tribune ran an article recently. I shall not link it because I don't find that paper fit to line my hamster's cage. But I sort of watched this from the beginning to do those dreaded Facebook mom groups.

The story goes is a woman was breastfeeding at church. People complained, bishop asked her to stop, she said she wouldn't, bishop took her temple recommend away as well as that of her husband's for not commanding her better, yada yada. I don't know how much is true or exaggerated, but now there's a call or petition or something for LDS leadership to not condemn breastfeeding as sexual.
 

Now, I've breastfed at church. I've done it in the mother's lounge, though I don't always like to because it's tiny, tends towards crowding, and smells of diapers. Plus it has no speaker system. I've done it elsewhere. It's never been a problem. I am a tad rah-rah-breastfeeding and I lean toward "avert your own eyes as I'm trying my best not to flash you."

Ultimately, I don't know what really happened. While part of me is shocked at the notion the bishop took away recommends JUST because she was breastfeeding and JUST because her husband was on her side, I doubt it's so simple. I imagine a bigger hullabaloo went down that possibly did stem from this conversation.

I don't know if this is something the church should take a hard stand on. Is it a reoccuring problem? Does it support all cultures in the world-wide church? At the same time, is it a good idea, the breastfeeding being a few steps short of a strip tease, to mess with temple recommends?

I have not read (and will not read) the SLTrib article, for the same reasons you don't link it. What a useless rag. The mere fact that the SL Trib finds a cause worthwhile is valid reason to question whether it's actually worthwhile.

I see at least two non-mutually-exclusive possibilities: The woman was being rude and a pain in the neck, and/or the bishop was being unnecessarily prudish. If the latter, then the bishop should get over it. If the former, then the woman should repent and quit embarrassing herself and acting like an idiot.

Count on the Trib to blow anything up out of proportion, especially if they can somehow smear the Church, directly or by association. Scum of the earth.

[Backroads]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

I have not read (and will not read) the SLTrib article, for the same reasons you don't link it. What a useless rag. The mere fact that the SL Trib finds a cause worthwhile is valid reason to question whether it's actually worthwhile.

 

Count on the Trib to blow anything up out of proportion, especially if they can somehow smear the Church, directly or by association. Scum of the earth.

Yeah, I was a little shocked to see it linked to reignite the discussion--it has been lively.

From what I saw on Facebook of the gal in question, she was quite humble and advice-seeking about the matter as far as I could tell, going as far as mentioning some of the advice she got from calling an area authority and how it helped her perspective on the matter. (I have no idea what took place in the interview, just stating that she said she was humbled by talking to the area authority, which is a nice thing to read).

My bigger worry is now that there's an article, it's now A Thing the Church Did.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Backroads

[MrShorty]

If it's any better, I see that KUTV has also picked up the story.

I think Vort's answer is the best -- if the leadership is being overly prudish, then they need to get over it. If the sister in question is being unnecessarily stubborn, then she needs to back down.

The thing that I find frustrating is that the sister and the feminist groups that have picked up her cause are the ones writing and controlling the narrative. The Church has so far refused to make any statement. Perhaps because Salt Lake needs to gather some information and investigate both sides before making a statement. Patience is difficult sometimes, but I am hoping that there will be some more clarity come forward in the days ahead.

Though, as the Trib article points out, this kind of thing seems to pop up every couple of years, with similar results. Someone gets grief for breastfeeding in Church, the incident goes public, and the Church offers some kind of verbal support of motherhood, and things settle down until the next incident.

Edited July 28, 2018 by MrShorty

[Fether]

47 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

the Church offers some kind of verbal support of motherhood

This tends to be the churches response to any and all shouts at them... when will people learn that the church has a copy/paste function they use for every response. All they do is just madlib in the appropriate nouns and boom, official church response that is always polite is formed.

[person0]

Hispanic women breast-fed in front of me all the time when I was a missionary.  They just popped em out right in the open, no covering or anything.  Perhaps it was never really uncomfortable because I was 12 and 14 when my mom breast fed my little brothers at home.  Normally, as long as a mother uses one of those wrap/covering blanket things, I see no reason why she shouldn't be able to breast feed just about anywhere.

[pwrfrk]

Just do it.  You're human, your child needs fed, there's nothing sexual about it, and if those that are offended would (rightfully) keep their noses in their own business, instead of twisting their necks around to make sure everyone is behaving properly (or whatever)....

You get the idea.  I think that talking with the Bishop might help.  He has a lot of spiritual guidance on this, I'm sure.  And likely a fair amount from his wife as well.

Don't worry about the lookie-lou's.  They have their own "just rewards" waiting for them.

[Grunt]

Practice modesty and there will be no issues.

[askandanswer]

Earlier this year, when I was attending the stake Financial Self Reliance course ( great course which I thoroughly recommend) there was a sister who would arrive about 5 or 10 minutes before the start of class and start breast feeding her baby. Sometimes her husband was with her, sometimes he wasn't. The class was facilitated by our bishop and when time permitted, attended by our Stake President and they never commented on it. Usually the breastfeeding finished just before or just after the start of class, meaning that baby was quiet and contended and often asleep for the rest of the class. I don't know if breast feeding happens during sacrament meeting as we normally sit close to the front so I don't know what's happening behind me. Fortunately, our mother's room is located just across the foyer from the chapel, it is well heated, wired for sound and the chairs are very comfortable.

Its not quite the same thing, but I live in an area that a year or two ago was proud to be able to claim, whether accurately or not I don't know, to be the first legislative body to have an elected representative breast feed her baby during legislative proceedings. I'm confident that when the current New Zealand Prime Minister, who used to be an active church member, returns to work after her current maternity leave, she will also breast feed her baby while participating in  parliamentary proceedings. 

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Grunt said:

Practice modesty and there will be no issues.

The problem is defining "modesty". Many people throughout history, including today, see nothing immodest about a woman exposing her breast to feed her child. I agree with this idea, at least in principle. (The reality is that I was born and raised a 20th-century American, so my principles don't always coincide exactly with my feelings.) I would never complain, publicly or privately, about a mother exposing her breast and nipple to feed her baby, no matter how uncomfortable I might be. The only exceptions would be when it's manifestly inappropriate for a woman to feed her baby, and I'm struggling to come up with a situation where a mother might be holding her baby but it would be inappropriate to feed the baby.

[askandanswer]

I noticed an advertisment in a large shopping mall yesterday from one of our major banks. The ad showed a picture of a woman working in a shop, breastfeeding her baby with one hand while operating a cash register with her other hand, with a message something like Commonwealth Bank - ready to work with you in any situation. I thought that might have been an inappropriate place/time to breast feed a baby - using only one hand to hold the baby while standing up, working and focused on serving customers seemed to me to be exposing the baby to a risk of being dropped. 

[askandanswer]

I can't help wandering what's worse - the baby feeding on breast milk or the rest of us eating the body of Christ and drinking His blood. 

[Fether]

15 minutes ago, Vort said:

The problem is defining "modesty". Many people throughout history,

Joseph F Smith told a story of going on a hike with some friend while at school. One girl tripped and her knee became uncovered. She was so embarrassed that they had to take a considerable amount of time to convince her to rejoin the group. Modesty has indeed changed and will continue to change

[Fether]

But on topic with the OP... I don’t think any woman should breast feed at church outside of a private place.

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, Vort said:

The problem is defining "modesty". Many people throughout history, including today, see nothing immodest about a woman exposing her breast to feed her child. I agree with this idea, at least in principle. (The reality is that I was born and raised a 20th-century American, so my principles don't always coincide exactly with my feelings.) I would never complain, publicly or privately, about a mother exposing her breast and nipple to feed her baby, no matter how uncomfortable I might be. The only exceptions would be when it's manifestly inappropriate for a woman to feed her baby, and I'm struggling to come up with a situation where a mother might be holding her baby but it would be inappropriate to feed the baby.

Again, it's all about modesty.  There are women who discretely expose the flesh and focus on the task, and there are women who make it a production because they WANT to bring attention to what they are doing.  

[Guest MormonGator]

I feel a little uncomfortable when a bunch of men tell a woman when/how to feed their babies. If this was an issue, could a member of the RS tell the sister about it instead?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

11 hours ago, askandanswer said:

 I thought that might have been an inappropriate place/time to breast feed a baby - using only one hand to hold the baby while standing up, working and focused on serving customers seemed to me to be exposing the baby to a risk of being dropped. 

Only for men, LOL!  Moms multitask with babes in arms all the time.  If we didn't nothing would ever get done in our homes and lives.    

[Fether]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I feel a little uncomfortable when a bunch of men tell a woman when/how to feed their babies. 

it is the ‘where’ that is the issue. And it’s not a big issue, but isolated events.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Fether

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

it is the ‘where’ that is the issue. And it’s not a big issue, but isolated events.

At the height of the "MeToo" movement I would be extremely careful. It's just common sense. 

[Maureen]

4 hours ago, Grunt said:

Again, it's all about modesty.  There are women who discretely expose the flesh and focus on the task, and there are women who make it a production because they WANT to bring attention to what they are doing.  

Really? And you know this because you are secretly one of those women. Breastfeeding in a public location is not easy to do, especially if those around you expect you to do it so discreetly that no one knows you are doing it. Breastfeeding is essentially about making your baby happy and sometimes that happens in public settings. Men who think how you do Grunt are so ignorant about what breastfeeding is actually about.

M.

[Maureen]

LDS breastfeeding art link.

http://ldsbreastfeedingart.blogspot.com/2010/06/lds-breastfeeding-art.html?m=1

M.

[Fether]

58 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

At the height of the "MeToo" movement I would be extremely careful. It's just common sense. 

I’m confused at the connection between my comment and the MeToo movement. It seems like an obvious thing to just not breastfeed. The only people I can imagine breastfeeding at church are people who are trying to make a statement and people who don’t understand social boundaries (I don’t complain about people who don’t understand social boundaries)

Edited July 29, 2018 by Fether

[Maureen]

25 minutes ago, Fether said:

I’m confused at the connection between my comment and the MeToo movement. It seems like an obvious thing to just not breastfeed. The only people I can imagine breastfeeding at church are people who are trying to make a statement and people who don’t understand social boundaries (I don’t complain about people who don’t understand social boundaries)

Wow, you're making it sound like breastfeeding is some kind of crime. Breastfeeding is a very natural action between mother and baby. I'm flabbergasted by how you think.

M.

[Fether]

14 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Wow, you're making it sound like breastfeeding is some kind of crime. Breastfeeding is a very natural action between mother and baby. I'm flabbergasted by how you think.

M.

Intercourses and using the restroom  are natural too, but you don’t see people doing that in th chuch tabernacle.

[Maureen]

9 minutes ago, Fether said:

Intercourses and using the restroom  are natural too, but you don’t see people doing that in th chuch tabernacle.

Breastfeeding feeds and soothes a baby. You think that eating and comforting should be done in private?

M.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Maureen