NeedleinA Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, unixknight said: So I do believe that attraction is instinctive. I "believe" this to be the case also. The 7 year old regrettably(?) was myself upon viewing the Sears Catalog looking for Star Wars toys as a kid. 🙄 If it is instinctive, are we putting others in an unnecessary position at church? Feed the 1 but arouse the 20? (psst, I'm just making up numbers😉) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, NeedleinA said: I "believe" this to be the case also. The 7 year old regrettably(?) was myself upon viewing the Sears Catalog looking for Star Wars toys as a kid. 🙄 If it is instinctive, are we putting others in an unnecessary position at church? Feed the 1 but arouse the 20? (psst, I'm just making up numbers😉) Good question... though I think it's amplified by being so uncommon. I believe the male attraction to breasts is instinctive but there are cultures where women are topless all the time. I think it's no big deal there because the guys are just used to it... so maybe they still look but it's not as titillating. Edited July 30, 2018 by unixknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 Wait? There are people that still have issues with women breastfeeding? Really? My wife breastfeed all of our kids in the U.S., in the chapel during sacrament meeting. I don't recall any stares, no one made any comments to us. Honestly I don't even know if anyone knew. My wife was pretty good at it. And if someone happens to see boob during sacrament meeting, is it going to be the end of their salvation? But I can certainly understand the predicament of the bishop. You have a member that is unhappy with something taking place at church mostly because we are so wrapped up in being modest. So now the bishop can run the risk of incensing the person that has the concern or the mother that was breastfeeding. Either way feeling are most likely going to get hurt. What do you do? If the mother was doing no wrong, then you have to side with her and explain to the member that she was not doing anything wrong. In some countries it is not uncommon to see a 4 or 5 year old getting some boob action from mom. Pop it right out for all to see and give their kid a quick snack. Avoiding porn and being prudish are two very different things. a woman feeding her baby is not porn. Nothing like feeling guilty over doing nothing wrong... Backroads and seashmore 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lost Boy said: My wife was pretty good at it. This may be the hold up. Who provides the definition of "good at it". Which one of the women is "good at it" at church? I'm not sure anyone has an issue with "breastfeeding". For me it is about how it is done. My wife breastfed at church as well. Edited July 30, 2018 by NeedleinA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, NeedleinA said: This may be the hold up. Who provides the definition of "good at it". Which one of the women is "good at it" at church? I'm not sure anyone has an issue with "breastfeeding". For me it is about how it is done. My wife breastfeed at church as well. Me? I don't really care. Most of the world doesn't have the same hang up on seeing a boob and they are fine. But I understand some are a bit more prudish and to make it easy for all a little blanket goes a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: to make it easy for all a little blanket goes a long way. Bingo-o-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, unixknight said: Ah okay. Then my answer would be no, because I don't think many 7 year olds get aroused like that yet. From personal experience, I must disagree. Seven-year-olds are perfectly capable of getting aroused and orgasming, though the two may not (yet) consciously be tied to sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: up on seeing a boob Why must we infantilize breasts? "Boob"? Really? This is ridiculous. Do we also talk to our sons about their "dicky" or "pee-pee"? If we want people to act like grown-ups, perhaps it's best that we all converse like grown-ups. "Boob", indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, Vort said: From personal experience, I must disagree. Seven-year-olds are perfectly capable of getting aroused and orgasming, though the two may not (yet) consciously be tied to sex. Ok, well then I stand corrected. But wow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 3 hours ago, unixknight said: Good question... though I think it's amplified by being so uncommon. I believe the male attraction to breasts is instinctive but there are cultures where women are topless all the time. I think it's no big deal there because the guys are just used to it... so maybe they still look but it's not as titillating. Ireland just voted to allow mothers to kill their children in their wombs. Being acceptable to society doesn't make something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Grunt said: Ireland just voted to allow mothers to kill their children in their wombs. Being acceptable to society doesn't make something right. That wasn't the point I was making at all... 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 3 hours ago, NeedleinA said: If it is instinctive, are we putting others in an unnecessary position at church? Feed the 1 but arouse the 20? (psst, I'm just making up numbers😉) Didn’t Laban get his head cut off with a similar thought process??? And isn’t their a scripture that says “if thy neighbor offend their; cut her right hand off”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, NeedleinA said: This may be the hold up. Who provides the definition of "good at it". Which one of the women is "good at it" at church? I'm not sure anyone has an issue with "breastfeeding". For me it is about how it is done. My wife breastfed at church as well. No one should have an issue with either one of these examples. We need to not look at everything though our puritanical glasses. An exposed breast in not the end of the world and breast feeding is not sexual. I somehow managed to serve a mission in another country where women frequently exposed themselves to breastfeed and I managed to make it through unscathed. Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: We need to not look at everything though our puritanical glasses. What is wrong with being "puritanical"? 8 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: An exposed breast in not the end of the world No one has claimed that a naked female breast is the end of the world. I probably agree with most of your feelings about breast-feeding, but I think it's counterproductive to demonize what people say by stretching their words to absurd limits. Just_A_Guy, Midwest LDS, NeedleinA and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said: breast feeding is not sexual. For you...perhaps. The world of pornography would very much disagree with you however. If it involves the exposure of the body visually in any way, there is a market or group out there that finds it plenty sexual. That market is comprised of our sons, our fathers, our brothers and even some of us. People have been aroused by far less, and for what - to avoid the use of a cover up blanket? Does breastfeeding your baby with an exposed breast in sacrament meeting constitute some kind of special occasion where our council regarding modesty is placed on pause or temporarily suspended? I'll share one other real life example and see if we can't remotely come closer to an agreement. For about 5-6 months our ward chorister was breastfeeding her child. She did not wear a bra sufficient to hide her engorged breast or nipples while leading the music, and thus the congregation either endured, ignored or enjoyed Sister X's extra large chest for about half a year. She might as well have had an arrow pointing at them as it was discussed by many, both young and old, male and female. She was aware of this issue but felt no desire to modify the situation in the name of "motherhood". When does breastfeeding or breastfeeding related circumstances trump council like: 1. "Never lower your standards of dress. Do not use a special occasion as an excuse to be immodest. When you dress immodestly, you send a message that is contrary to your identity as a son or daughter of God. You also send the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval." 2. "Immodest clothing is any clothing that is tight, sheer, or revealing in any other manner." 3. "The fashions of the world will change, but the Lord’s standards will not change." Elder Dallin H. Oaks: Quote And young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you. ^^^ This applies to breast exposing Sisters at church regardless if they want to acknowledge this reality or not. A $20 cover up blanket or a $40 obscure maternity bra and NeedleinA has zero problems. Edited July 31, 2018 by NeedleinA zil, unixknight and Just_A_Guy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, NeedleinA said: The world of pornography would very much disagree with you however. If it involves the exposure of the body visually in any way, there is a market or group out there that finds it plenty sexual. Maybe, but it's not the fault of the breast-feeding mother that some pervert finds that act sexually appealing. I'm a guy, I like the female body too, believe me. But I know how to control myself and my thoughts. If some other guy can't control himself or his thoughts, that's on him 100%. 0% on the woman. Edited July 31, 2018 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Maybe, but it's not the fault of the breast-feeding mother that some pervert finds that act sexually appealing. I'm a guy, I like the female body too, believe me. But I know how to control myself and my thoughts. If some other guy can't control himself or his thoughts, that's on him 100%. 0% on the woman. I hate this arguement... not 100% sure why. Possibly because I can think of a few quotes from prophets that rebuttals the idea that the woman is fully innocent in a situation where she is walking around immodest and another man lusts after her. Though she is not guilty of his sin, she is guilty of being immodest... a clear commandment Vort, NeedleinA and Backroads 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Fether said: I hate this arguement... not 100% sure why. Possibly because I can think of a few quotes from prophets that rebuttals the idea that the woman is fully innocent in a situation where she is walking around immodest and another man lusts after her. Though she is not guilty of his sin, she is guilty of being immodest... a clear commandment Sorry, but I have to be honest. It is what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Maybe, but it's not the fault of the breast-feeding mother that some pervert finds it sexually appealing. If she has the means to cover herself up, follow the council to be modest but elects not to, then yes, it is her fault for contributing and: "magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you" We put nudity filters on our computers, phones, TVs only to go to church instead and see nudity there? One of the few places left(?) where we should be able to go and step away from the world. 28 minutes ago, MormonGator said: But I know how to control myself and my thoughts. Then you have reached a place where endless others have failed or have struggled with for decades. If the exceptions were the norm, they would also be the rule. There is a big enough problem that we as priesthood holders are inundated with countless lessons and never ending priesthood talks by GAs about the dangers of awakening the "pervert" in us. Edited July 31, 2018 by NeedleinA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, NeedleinA said: Then you have reached a place where endless others have failed or have struggled with for decades. I'll save a spot for you when you get there. Bring some pretzels please. I'm hungry. Those Auntie Anne pretzels you can get at the mall. I'll pay you back. No, really. I love those pretzels. ( @zil are you taking notes? Contact the CEO of Aunt Annies. I want a kiosk built in the compound. That's your goal for this week) Edited July 31, 2018 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, NeedleinA said: We put nudity filters on our computers, phones, TVs only to go to church instead and see nudity there? One of the few places left(?) where we should be able to go and step away from the world. And another arguement for all this. A wonderful catch phrase we all use is “The church is a hospital for the sick”. Breast feeding without a cover at church is like bringing a homeless man into the ICU and having him stick his hand in all their mouthes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Fether said: 39 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I'm a guy, I like the female body too, believe me. But I know how to control myself and my thoughts. If some other guy can't control himself or his thoughts, that's on him 100%. 0% on the woman. I hate this arguement... not 100% sure why. I don't really hate the argument, but I'm not of the same opinion. I think I know why. - The second great commandment is to love thy neighbor as thyself. I'm all about not making things harder on my poor fallen sinful imperfect self than necessary. One would think the exact opposite of loving thy neighbor, is to not give a flying wet crap about their potential struggles, just because we don't have them. - A baptismal covenant is to bear one another's burdens that they might be light. Struggling with hormonal carnal sensual devilish reactions is a burden. One would think the exact opposite of bearing another's burdens, is to refuse to cover up 'cause it ain't you that has the problem, it's the other guy. Now I'm pretty much down with 99% of everything I hear from MormonGator. You're ok in my book. We just can't agree on everything. Vort, Fether, zil and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrfrk Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 7 hours ago, NeedleinA said: This may be the hold up. Who provides the definition of "good at it". Which one of the women is "good at it" at church? - picture removed - - picture removed - I'm not sure anyone has an issue with "breastfeeding". For me it is about how it is done. My wife breastfed at church as well. I for one see no reason to keep attaching the same pictures everyone has already seen ten million times. As a practicing naturist I see nothing sexual about a woman breastfeeding. I see no reason for people to be offended over a purly natural event. Sure, sexual intercourse is natural as well. But a baby needs fed. No one will die if you have to wait to have sex. Reflecting on my experiences in naturism I am compelled to say that if you see a woman breastfeeding, don't watch. If it offends you, look the other direction. Maybe I find that dress you're wearing to be sexually provocative. Should I tell the bishop? Should I publicly chastise you? Maybe that blouse you're wearing makes me want to puke. What should I do then? This is not the Church of Maureen or the Chapel of Vort (names used for example only). You're not the only person there. Your Bishop will say something if he feels there is a need. Trust him and his judgment. Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Here are my thoughts on breastfeeding at church: Its not something I would do............. but then again, I lack the necessary equipment Midwest LDS, Backroads, pwrfrk and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: But I know how to control myself and my thoughts Its easy when you have some few of them to control Midwest LDS, Vort, Backroads and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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