Tattoos

[mikbone]

Man this is one of those esoteric topics.  Here goes.

As a surgeon I have seen some ugly and outrageous tats.  We even have a ratio that we use to pigeon-hole patients into categories.  

Tattoo to Tooth Ratio.  Anything above one is real bad.

I love to see Polynesians cultural tattoos in the temple though.

My personal preference is for a clean canvas.

Personally, I don't think tattoos will be a thing in the spirit world.  

How about orthopedic hardware? Breast augmentation? Cosmetic surgery? Dental implants? These are all way more aggressive body modifications than ink…

I can’t imagine God requiring someone to live for an eternity with a Stryker total knee plastic and stainless steel implant.  Nonsense.

And dust to dust.  Unless great care is taken to preserve a body, it will return to the elements.  All antediluvian bodies will have to be regenerated.  I don’t see why modern day mortals would have to keep the matter that currently resides within our bodies.  Oreos, Cheetos, GMO foods, medications, lead poisoning, micro plastics, etc…

I’ll pass.

 

Jesus Christ’s wounds are a whole different matter though.  They seem to be part of his identity.  Not sure if they are part of an ordinance or if they are his preference.

I suspect that our Heavenly Father has similar markings though.

[zil2]

Scriptures make it pretty clear that resurrected bodies will be perfect - if you were missing a limb, it will be back, for example.  Nearsighted?  Not any longer.  I seem to recall Brigham Young suggested, though, that one will still have to overcome problems like being over weight.  I'm not sure I buy that, but who knows.  My dad thought that we would learn how to be immortal - that it wouldn't be a condition so much as a way of life.

I've always thought that when the Savior's work was done, he would be able to lose the marks of the crucifixion, but what do I know.  (Actually, I assume he can lose them at will, but that's me...)

[Vort]

16 minutes ago, zil2 said:

I've always thought that when the Savior's work was done, he would be able to lose the marks of the crucifixion, but what do I know.  (Actually, I assume he can lose them at will, but that's me...)

I think the Savior's work is never done. I don't know at this point whether this is a meaningful insight or just a game with words.

[zil2]

14 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think the Savior's work is never done. I don't know at this point whether this is a meaningful insight or just a game with words.

Good point.  I meant after the Millennium, after all from this earth are resurrected and sent to whatever kingdom they will inherit - that portion of his work.

[Anddenex]

Tattoos are evidence that the natural man is alive and well in all of us. I have only heard of one good reason where a tattoo (culture isn't one of them) seemed reasonable. In college I met a lady who had a lot of surgeries, due to genetics. Her body was riddled with scars. In order to cover up those scars a tattoo was created out of them.

What is it with human nature that we tend to disregard counsel so easily, and find every and any reason to make our choice to appear as the outlier that someday God will accept and that we won't need to repent of -- despite the clear audible counsel?

Edited September 5, 2023 by Anddenex

[zil2]

8 hours ago, Anddenex said:

I have only heard of one good reason where a tattoo (culture isn't one of them) seemed reasonable.

You accidentally stabbed yourself with your extra-fine nibbed fountain pen that happened to be inked with Noodler's Heart of Darkness?

[prisonchaplain]

I was curious about the church's actual stance on tattooing. It appears similar to that found in many Christian churches: perhaps not officially banned, but strongly and repeatedly discouraged. Through a visit to the church's website, I first found an article that referenced treating our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit--an instruction with even more meaning for LDS than for most Christians (though it's the most common reason many of us give for not drinking alcohol). The site also had an article by Dr. Barton (M.D.) that doubled down on the discouragement, comparing tattooing to breaking the WoW. Sometimes unspoken rules are stronger than official ones. I suspect that more LDS break the WoW than sport tattoos, in part because there's no permanent evidence of the former. The foolish notion that we can repent and be forgiven of our sins, therefore sinning is not so bad, is more tempting when there's no permanently visible marks.

[SilentOne]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:33 PM, Anddenex said:

I have only heard of one good reason where a tattoo (culture isn't one of them) seemed reasonable.

My grandmother was tattooed with her blood type as a child. Maybe a teen; maybe a bit younger. Apparently it was done mainly in Lake County, Indiana, and Cache and Rich counties in Utah during the early 1950s.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/sharp-needles-for-the-cold-war-yes-some-kids-got-tattooed-with-their-blood-type/2017/08/19/67e088c4-82b3-11e7-902a-2a9f2d808496_story.html

Edited September 6, 2023 by SilentOne

[prisonchaplain]

I'm not necessarily advocating this, but there is The A.C.T.--The Alliance of Christian Tattooers. I imagine that their argument is that the biblical prohibition against tattooing was part of the ritualistic law (similar to laws about not blending cloth types or kosher regulations), and is not part of the moral law, so Christians are not bound by it. Most Evangelicals likely agree with this reasoning, but in practice are not comfortable with tattooing. We still associate it with rebellion and being counterculture, even though it's considered mainstream these days. I guess I'm a product of my advanced middle age. 

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, prisonchaplain said:

A.C.T.--The Alliance of Christian Tattooers. I imagine that their argument 

The guy who does most of my work is an Evangelical Christian. He takes his faith so seriously that he turns down all tattoos with profanity or blasphemy. 

[Vort]

Is tattooing prohibited by divine commandment? Not as far as I know.

Is tattooing offensive in the sight of God? I don't know; you'd have to ask God.

Is decorative tattooing generally a good idea? I think it is not. External "vanity" body modifications—that is, artificial changes designed to draw attention (the literal definition of immodesty) or artificially enhance the perception of sexually related characteristics (e.g. breast augmentation in an otherwise healthy breast, buttocks augmentation, lip augmentation, liposuction, etc.) that do nothing to boost physical health or functionality—seem to me a sort of violation or pollution of the body God has given us stewardship over. Perhaps "pollution" is too strong a word, but something along those lines.

That said, I would not criticize anyone, including a fellow Saint, for doing such a thing. It's not my affair. If I were tasked with determining a person's moral worthiness, there are much bigger fish to fry than whether they had a lip job* or got a tattoo.

*What is with the silicone lip inflation fad? Not sure I've ever seen anything more nonsensical, and I'm pretty sure I have not seen any "vanity surgery" that so reliably leaves the patient disfigured. It's an amazing thing to me that such is even legal, though if doctors are allowed to castrate or otherwise sexually mutilate children, I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to make a consenting adult look like a duck/human hybrid experiment gone catastrophically wrong.

[Jamie123]

I have never been a great fan of tattoos, but I have been watching Al Caraway on YouTube and I can't help but be impressed by her. She is covered with tattoos and yet is totally on fire for the LDS faith, despite the fact that her fellow Utahans have treated her like dirt - mostly over the tattoos, but also because she's from New York*.

* As was Joseph Smith!

Edited September 16, 2023 by Jamie123

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

despite the fact that her fellow Utahans have treated her like dirt

I’m not saying she’s inauthentic and she certainly doesn’t deserve to be treated poorly. I have no doubt what she says is probably true. 
 

However, if you think she’s not in it for the fame (at least partially) and the “cool, hip instagram” lifestyle, you are extremely naive. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by LDSGator

[Jamie123]

39 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I’m not saying she’s inauthentic and she certainly doesn’t deserve to be treated poorly. I have no doubt what she says is probably true. 
 

However, if you think she’s not in it for the fame (at least partially) and the “cool, hip instagram” lifestyle, you are extremely naive. 

Oh well - I like to think the best of people.

Except of course BMW drivers.

Had one today - came up right behind my tail, beeped his horn, overtook me, undertook the car in the right lane front of me (which is illegal in the uk). At the next traffic lights we were neck and neck again. (I was now in the lane to turn right.) It really got him to his destination a lot faster, didn't it?

Actually, now I think of it, it may have been an Alfa Romeo, but they're almost as bad.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Jamie123

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Oh well - I like to think the best of people.

No worries. I do as well, and I understand where you are coming from. 

8 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Except of course BMW drivers.

For me it’s Prius drivers. 

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

I have never been a great fan of tattoos, but I have been watching Al Caraway on YouTube and I can't help but be impressed by her. She is covered with tattoos and yet is totally on fire for the LDS faith, despite the fact that her fellow Utahans have treated her like dirt - mostly over the tattoos, but also because she's from New York*.

* As was Joseph Smith!

My parents were on a cruise with her last month. Said she's delightful.

[mrmarklin]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:08 PM, Jamie123 said:

Oh well - I like to think the best of people.

Except of course BMW drivers.

Had one today - came up right behind my tail, beeped his horn, overtook me, undertook the car in the right lane front of me (which is illegal in the uk). At the next traffic lights we were neck and neck again. (I was now in the lane to turn right.) It really got him to his destination a lot faster, didn't it?

Actually, now I think of it, it may have been an Alfa Romeo, but they're almost as bad.

I resemble that remark!!!!

 

On another note, I was recently in the UK and noticed many more tattoos than we seem to have here in the US.  I'm in California and we have plenty, but the UK (London) seemed to have more.

[Jamie123]

16 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I resemble that remark!!!!

 

On another note, I was recently in the UK and noticed many more tattoos than we seem to have here in the US.  I'm in California and we have plenty, but the UK (London) seemed to have more.

The only tattoo I like is this one:

 

[prisonchaplain]

Aw, come on @Jamie123, are you telling me you don't like THIS Tattoo:

[Traveler]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:31 AM, mikbone said:

Man this is one of those esoteric topics.  Here goes.

As a surgeon I have seen some ugly and outrageous tats.  We even have a ratio that we use to pigeon-hole patients into categories.  

Tattoo to Tooth Ratio.  Anything above one is real bad.

I love to see Polynesians cultural tattoos in the temple though.

My personal preference is for a clean canvas.

Personally, I don't think tattoos will be a thing in the spirit world.  

How about orthopedic hardware? Breast augmentation? Cosmetic surgery? Dental implants? These are all way more aggressive body modifications than ink…

I can’t imagine God requiring someone to live for an eternity with a Stryker total knee plastic and stainless steel implant.  Nonsense.

And dust to dust.  Unless great care is taken to preserve a body, it will return to the elements.  All antediluvian bodies will have to be regenerated.  I don’t see why modern day mortals would have to keep the matter that currently resides within our bodies.  Oreos, Cheetos, GMO foods, medications, lead poisoning, micro plastics, etc…

I’ll pass.

 

Jesus Christ’s wounds are a whole different matter though.  They seem to be part of his identity.  Not sure if they are part of an ordinance or if they are his preference.

I suspect that our Heavenly Father has similar markings though.

It seems to me that tattoos are a kind of scar – so I have a few.  The most dramatic of my scars or tattoos are the results of cycling.  I have a really cool looking scar from my chain sprocket on my leg.  Also, on my leg and arm (right side) I have scars from a hard fall in a cycling competition (about 2 years ago).   I think they used a wire brush (at the hospital) to scrape out the asphalt from my skin and flesh.  The scar looks like I had tiger markings tattooed on my arm and leg.  I also have 3 teeth implants because of missing or lost teeth.

For some odd reason my wife completely lost her eyebrows and thought to get eyebrow tattoos so she would not look weird when she did not put on makeup.  The tattoos lasted for a few years and then out of the blue my wife suddenly developed an allergy for the ink.  The dermatologist informed her that it is not uncommon for someone to develop allergies for the ink of tattoos later in life when aging.   Something to make tattoos more fun in your sunset years?  This process left her with some scars that she covers up with makeup. 

My scars do not bother me, but my wife finds no joy in hers – perhaps a difference between guys that think they are tough and girls that do not like to make a tough impression so much.  I think that living an active lifestyle brings a high probability for scaring.

I can understand and sympathize with someone’s scars from accidents or being mistreated by others – but my impression is that those that scar themselves deliberately as some kind of body art – is that they are not comfortable in their own skin.

 

The Traveler

Edited September 22, 2023 by Traveler

[Jamie123]

9 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Aw, come on @Jamie123, are you telling me you don't like THIS Tattoo:

Well it has to be better than this one!

I mean honestly...who would want that horrible thing on permanent display on their skin? It gives me the willies!

Here's another tattoo that gives me the willies:

It might sound upbeat to anyone who's not read Nineteen Eighty Four.

(I don't know what the numerals are. Important dates maybe - though what happened in the year 99?

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

(I don't know what the numerals are. Important dates maybe - though what happened in the year 99?

I believe they ran out of space, so they thought it would take fewer characters to write 99 than 1999.  They saved three whole letters.

I couldn't find anything significant about those dates.  I looked at news and solar eclipses.  And then I figured, it's meaningless.

[prisonchaplain]

It could be the feared Y2K bug. Ironically, computers used 99 rather than 1999 because memory was limited and expensive back in the day. The fear was that nuclear weapons computers, air traffic control, energy power grids etc. would all go haywire at midnight 1/1/00.

[EH12NG]

I don't have any tattoos myself and never will but I am uneasy about passing comment on other peoples bodies/choices. Has a whiff of the mean girls about it. 
 

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

It could be the feared Y2K bug. Ironically, computers used 99 rather than 1999 because memory was limited and expensive back in the day. The fear was that nuclear weapons computers, air traffic control, energy power grids etc. would all go haywire at midnight 1/1/00.

July 28th, 1999?