The War in Israel may be at it's end.

[Carborendum]

10 hours ago, Traveler said:

You will have to explain this.  All the countries that border Iran have closed their borders to limit those leaving Iran.  The same for Gaza.  I do not know much about Yemen, but I have not heard of anyone currently risking their life to go there.  Syria and Lebanon are more stable than they have been for a decade and I have not heard of anyone trying to go there with some exceptions of a few citizens that left that are try get back.

 

The Traveler

"go there" does not mean that people get on boats and planes to enter into that geographic region.

It means: "Jump to the conclusion that it is a fulfillment of end-times prophecy."

[LDSGator]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

"go there" does not mean that people get on boats and planes to enter into that geographic region.

It means: "Jump to the conclusion that it is a fulfillment of end-times prophecy."

Thanks.

[Traveler]

So, my question for @Carborendum and @LDSGator– is anything currently going on a fulfillment of end of times prophesy?  Any more than at any other time?

I would submit that the gathering of Jews in Israel (Zionism) and the opposition to that gathering is a prime and significant fulfillment of a great many prophecies concerning the end of times.

Here is a thought concerning the last conflict (Armageddon).  It has to do with a burning that would go on for a number of years.  I had speculated that such a burning was an indication of nuclear armaments being utilized in battle – is it possible this is incorrect - rather that the burning is the result of nuclear facilities being blown up and/or destroyed?

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

First off, I apologize for not being clear with my original comment. On me 100%
 

Could it be prophecy? Sure. 

But, Christians (and I’m one of them) need to be extremely careful to label things as “prophetic”. Our credibility is at stake here. 

[Carborendum]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

... is anything currently going on a fulfillment of end of times prophesy?  Any more than at any other time?

I wonder if we're looking too much at a microscopic level.  As Americans, we're used to wars starting suddenly and then ending in a few years. 

• Shot heard 'round the world
• Chesapeake and Delaware
• Ft Sumter
• The Lusitania
• Pearl Harbor
• 38th Parallel
• Gulf of Tonkin
• 9-11

What if it is all just one very long war?  What if the battlefield of societies and planets is bigger than the few plots of land and a few politicians that we tend to think about?

What if all the end times prophecies are ...being... fulfilled.  But the complete fulfillment of the prophecy is to come to fruition over the course of centuries?  Maybe we still have another century or two before Christ comes again. 

1. The Jews have gathered in the land of Israel.  It happened before I was born. But it did not happen for over 1500 years.

2. I believe that the lowered fertility rates we've seen in recent decades is very much a part of the "death" (death, disease, famine, and war).

• Sterilizing children and adults.
• Abortion
• Birth control pills and abortion pills are now being suspected of contaminating the water supply in developed nations, to the point that we have more miscarriages and infertility.

3. From Ezekiel:

• Iran is literally Persia.
• Gog and Magog seem like Lebanon and Hezbollah.
• Gomer and Togarmah are modern Anatolia & Turkey.
• Sheba, and Dedan fit well with Lybia and Ethiopia (which are also mentioned elsewhere).
• Meshech and Tubal are also a part of modern Turkey.

4. The Constitution shall hang by a thread.

Does anyone really believe we have another century as the nation we've grown up in?   I'd like to think we do.  But probabilities???  We'll see.

Is it strange that while we focus on the Jews returning to their homeland, that we didn't notice how many Muslims were chased out of the boundaries of the Ottoman Empire since Columbus.  The first sign of decline for the Ottomans was that Spain chased out the Ottomans in the same year that Columbus set sail.  Does that sound coincidental to anyone else? 

The thing is that it has been going on for quite some time, right under our noses.  The Lord's timetable is much longer than ours.  We expect it to happen all in a few years like so many wars we've known. 

What if the fulfillment of end times prophecies has already begun centuries ago, and we still have a couple centuries for it to complete?  Sounds like a burning to me.

Edited June 19 by Carborendum

[Traveler]

On 6/19/2025 at 1:15 PM, Carborendum said:

I wonder if we're looking too much at a microscopic level.  As Americans, we're used to wars starting suddenly and then ending in a few years. 

• Shot heard 'round the world
• Chesapeake and Delaware
• Ft Sumter
• The Lusitania
• Pearl Harbor
• 38th Parallel
• Gulf of Tonkin
• 9-11

What if it is all just one very long war?  What if the battlefield of societies and planets is bigger than the few plots of land and a few politicians that we tend to think about?

What if all the end times prophecies are ...being... fulfilled.  But the complete fulfillment of the prophecy is to come to fruition over the course of centuries?  Maybe we still have another century or two before Christ comes again. 

1. The Jews have gathered in the land of Israel.  It happened before I was born. But it did not happen for over 1500 years.

2. I believe that the lowered fertility rates we've seen in recent decades is very much a part of the "death" (death, disease, famine, and war).

• Sterilizing children and adults.
• Abortion
• Birth control pills and abortion pills are now being suspected of contaminating the water supply in developed nations, to the point that we have more miscarriages and infertility.

3. From Ezekiel:

• Iran is literally Persia.
• Gog and Magog seem like Lebanon and Hezbollah.
• Gomer and Togarmah are modern Anatolia & Turkey.
• Sheba, and Dedan fit well with Lybia and Ethiopia (which are also mentioned elsewhere).
• Meshech and Tubal are also a part of modern Turkey.

4. The Constitution shall hang by a thread.

Does anyone really believe we have another century as the nation we've grown up in?   I'd like to think we do.  But probabilities???  We'll see.

Is it strange that while we focus on the Jews returning to their homeland, that we didn't notice how many Muslims were chased out of the boundaries of the Ottoman Empire since Columbus.  The first sign of decline for the Ottomans was that Spain chased out the Ottomans in the same year that Columbus set sail.  Does that sound coincidental to anyone else? 

The thing is that it has been going on for quite some time, right under our noses.  The Lord's timetable is much longer than ours.  We expect it to happen all in a few years like so many wars we've known. 

What if the fulfillment of end times prophecies has already begun centuries ago, and we still have a couple centuries for it to complete?  Sounds like a burning to me.

A couple of notes from my personal impressions:

1. Seldom are prophetic signs given that are recognized by anyone until the event occurs or after the event.

2. Many scholars identify the region of Magog near the Black Sea, somewhere associated with Northeaster Türkiye, Azerbaijan, Georgia and the southernmost reaches of Russia.  This is also close to where some Islamic scholars predict the califate will arise that with start the end of times Jihad against the infidels and enemies of Islam.  I was concerned that the political ties with Russia and Iran could be a beginning of the Biblical (and Muslims) Gog and Magog.

3. I believe that the LDS general authorities recognize the restoration as the most pronounced prophetic sign of the end of times (why the church is specifically designated with the title "Latter-day Saints".   Also, since the Book of Revelation speaks of 7 seals – I doubt that there much left of the prophetic pre-millennial signs.  It may be possible that there is less that 2 years left.  I am waiting to see what happens over the next 3 months.  Especially concerning Israel and what is now going on in Iran and then what happens with Russia – Ukraine conflict (especially the most disputed areas in eastern Ukraine.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

On 6/19/2025 at 2:09 PM, Traveler said:

is anything currently going on a fulfillment of end of times prophesy?  Any more than at any other time?

Until the apostles say “Hey guys, it’s just about over. Start doing this…” I’ll be skeptical. 

[zil2]

59 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Until the apostles say “Hey guys, it’s just about over. Start doing this…” I’ll be skeptical. 

They are never going to say that. To do so would be as contrary to agency as if Joseph Smith had put dates to all the premillennial prophecies. Those who have taken the Spirit as their guide will be prepared. Those who haven't won't be.

[LDSGator]

10 minutes ago, zil2 said:

They are never going to say that. To do so would be as contrary to agency as if Joseph Smith had put dates to all the premillennial prophecies. Those who have taken the Spirit as their guide will be prepared. Those who haven't won't be.

Okay.

[mirkwood]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Until the apostles say “Hey guys, it’s just about over. Start doing this…” I’ll be skeptical. 

 

So without, "thus sayeth the Lord" statements, you don't believe in prophetic statements?

[LDSGator]

28 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

 

So without, "thus sayeth the Lord" statements, you don't believe in prophetic statements?

I believe God will make it very clear to all people when time is up, yes. Will there be signs? Sure. Do I believe Christians read way too much into an very unstable area? Absolutely. 

[mirkwood]

26 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I believe God will make it very clear to all people when time is up, yes. Will there be signs? Sure. Do I believe Christians read way too much into an very unstable area? Absolutely. 

 

You did not answer my question.

[LDSGator]

15 hours ago, mirkwood said:

 

You did not answer my question.

I think I was clear enough in my responses with what I think will happen. 

I’ve heard the Chicken Little stuff so many times before that it’s become tiresome. If you wake up every day saying “Today is the day I’m going to die” eventually you’ll be right, so you can pat yourself on the back when it finally happens I guess. Same sort of thing here. 
 

1. conflict begins in the middle east. 
 

2. Christians attribute it to end times prophecy.
 

3. the conflict eventually dies down.  

4. we’re still here.  Things settle down and we move on to new news stories to worry about. 
 

5. conflict begins in the middle east. 
 

6.Christians attribute it to end times prophecy.

And so on.
 

I think God will hold us accountable for every time we claim prophecy and we are wrong. It is maybe the number one thing a believer/church can do to make people stop believing. Claim prophecy, be shown you are wrong, than have the audacity to do it again in six months.

I wouldn’t believe in your faith either if that happened. 

Edited Saturday at 05:59 PM by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

to repeat myself-I actually do believe in a fairly literal interpretation of the book of revelation. 

I don’t worry about it in the least though. I’m more worried about my day to day salvation than I am about speculation of what it’s currently going on. 

[Traveler]

Just my opinion.  Nothing is clear that comes from G-d, with the exception of the righteous (in other words – those that seek and keep G-d’s covenants.  And even then, I believe the only reason things become clear is because of the gift and covenant of the Holy Ghost.  But we are not done yet, the clearness seems to me to come step by step by step, line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept.

I cannot say that what is going on the Armageddon.  But here is a thought.  I have visited Israel.  One of the places that I went was to the valley of Armageddon (also known as Megiddo and the Jezreel Valley).  My guide, an LDS Israeli citizen informed me that there has never in the history of Israel (both ancient and modern) has a battle been fought in the valley of Armageddon (Megiddo).   The significance of Armageddon (Megiddo) is that this is where Israel would gather all the warriors from all the tribes to prepare for war and to begin their campaign to meet their enemies.

Here is a map:

 

 

 

 

The Traveler

Edited Saturday at 06:43 PM by Traveler

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I think I was clear enough in my responses with what I think will happen. 

 

Actually you are not.  You are not looking at what my question is, you are answering something else.

 

Let's try again.

 

Quote

So without, "thus sayeth the Lord" statements, you don't believe in prophetic statements?

 

My question is not what you keep answering.

 

 

[LDSGator]

27 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Actually you are not.  Y

Okay. I feel like I was, so it’s best for me to move on. 

Edited Saturday at 08:32 PM by LDSGator

[Carborendum]

So... Iran is attempting a do-over of the Strait of Hormuz.  

Yeah, it went over so well the first time.  And we have Trump.  Can you imagine how bad it would be if Biden or Kamala were in office?

[Ironhold]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

Here is a map:

 

 

 

 

The Traveler

I'm so out of it with everything I've got going IRL that I misread Narbata as "Narnia". 

[mikbone]

Edited Sunday at 12:21 AM by mikbone

[LDSGator]

Yet another war begins 

[JohnsonJones]

19 hours ago, mikbone said:

To be clear and upfront, I support this action.

I feel this is not something that Trump wanted to do.  In fact, I think he didn't want to do it.  He did it because it had to be done.

He probably knew it would be unpopular.  He probably knew polls, even from his own party, would show many who were against this act.  

But if he did this, I think the alternative was Iran with Nuclear weapons.  

I think they may have been close, and at this point, there was really no alternative.  It was do it now, or Iran has a nuclear weapon. (and I'd be happy if someone proves me wrong, but the impression I get was that the reason Isreal took the actions it did, and what convinced Trump to do what he did was how very close they were to obtaining such a weapon).

An Iran with a Nuclear Weapon is bad.

They have declared death to Israel.  They have declared death to the USA.  They are one of the biggest backers and formentors of world wide terrorism today.  I do not think it takes a great deal of imagination to think of what they may have done if they got nuclear weapons, and the damage they may attempt to do at US targets with such things.

Acting offensively to kill others is not Christian, but we also know in the Book of Mormon that we can defend ourselves.  Iran declared the US it's enemy decades ago.  They have made no secret of things they have done to try to cause us harm.  Acting to defend the US from such an enemy that would probably use such Weapons of Mass Destruction to seriously hurt us, I hope falls in line with self defensive actions to defend our nation, our lives, and our way of being.

You all know I am not a fan of Trump (at all).  However, I think this is one action I fully think he made the right call on.  I don't think it's going to be popular (from what I've been reading in the news), but sometimes hard choices have to be made and this was one of them.  No one wins with a Nuclear Armed Iran (even Iran loses, though they may not understand why).  

I know he says that it's a great success, but I think it's too early to tell currently.  I only hope that we succeeded as well as Trump has stated (if not more so) after we finally can get the analysis of what damage we actually did or did not accomplish.  

[NeuroTypical]

The Pentagon's press briefing said like 3 or 4 times, this was a one-off mission, and the administration is hoping Iran will take the loss and come to the peace talks.  

That said, we've got 2 carrier strike groups in the area, to make sure we return anything Iran gives us tenfold. 

That said, after our strikes, Iran launched a whole crapton of missiles at Israel, and we didn't respond.

So who knows.  I don't want another war either.   

[LDSGator]

31 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

  I don't want another war either.   

Like someone else here said ( @Vort, I think) Satan laughs when war begins. 

[Traveler]

Not so long ago Iran and Iraq were at war.  Iraq was much better armed and prepared and decimated Iran, but Iran refused to surrender.   Iran is roughly 3 times the land mass size and had more resources and population.   Attrition began to wear on Iraq, and they began to withdraw leaving behind vast areas filled with land mines.   Iran had children run through the mine fields promising the children and their families places in heaven for their sacrifices.   This conflict never ended but came to kind of a draw.  There were claims that Iraq used weapons of mass destruction as part of the justification of “Desert Storm”.

I have no idea how this current conflict in Iran will end, but I think there is a lot more going on than meets the eye.  Especially our wester eye and its western view.  I agree with @JohnsonJones that we had no choice.

Beyond all this there is something that concerns me more.  As I am reading along with this year’s study of the Doctrine and Covenants – I read how there will be wars in many far away countries.  However, I think that what comes next in the D&C is more of a concern.  We are told that we “know not the hearts of many in our own country.”   I think this is the most important part of the prophetic warning. 

Currently the hearts and minds of our country are critically divided.  There is nothing our leaders (republican or democrat) seam to be about without the other lashing out against with great anger and disgust.   Our politicians have become the targets of assassins, and yet the hateful rhetoric continues, each blaming the other.   The obvious weakness and greatest vulnerability of the USA is our mistrust and hatred of each other – especially against whoever is in power.

So great is the hatred that many, otherwise calm, cannot contain their anger and mistrust of the other.  Though the secret combinations ignited the great war that destroyed the Nephites it was, in the end, the anger, lust for blood and the unceasing desire for revenge that destroyed the Nephites – as well as the Jaredites.   I have two, beloved to me, brothers that the very mention of “Trump” sends them into fits of rage.

The one thing I learned while in the army during the Vietnam conflict is that regardless of how stupid, foolish or sick and wrong the orders were or seemed to be – not acting together as a united unit was the quickest route to failure and the best way to lose a battle.

 

The Traveler

Edited Sunday at 08:55 PM by Traveler