The Ten Commandments

[pam]

So I posted this meme on LDS Images facebook page:

 

This is one of the comments posted:   The 10 commandments was the law given to the Israelites they were given to Moses on mount Sinai for the Israelites when Jesus Christ died he fulfilled that law and gave 2 commandments for his followers to keep we are not under the 10 commandments since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Do you agree that we are under no obligation to follow the ten commandments?

You can find the post here:  

 

[beefche]

Sweet! I can now build up my hit list and hire hitmen and I can still claim the Lord's blessings! Although I don't think I would ever covet my neighbor's wife. 

[pam]

I think what she is hung up on is the fact that when Christ died and was resurrected he fulfilled the Law of Moses which the ten commandments were part of.  Yes he did fulfill this but he brought a higher law into place.  It didn't replace the ten commandments He basically added to it.  Instead of Thou shalt not kill, he added that one should not get angry at someone.  For thou shalt not commit adultery, he added that lustful thoughts regarding someone you aren't married to is also a sin.  So all it did was add a higher law.

[zil]

I'd really like to know how people justify that claim that Christ gave only two commandments when the four gospels alone are full of statements spoken by Christ in command form (e.g. the Sermon on the Mount is full of command-style statements, culminating with "Be ye therefore perfect").  Even his phrasing "hang all the law and the prophets" - doesn't say those two replace the law and prophets, but that they are the basis for the law and prophets - if they were the basis for law before, it only makes sense they would continue to be the basis for all law - something logically concluded from all those command-style statements. As for fulfilling the Law of Moses, I like to think he filled that law full(er). </sigh>

[Connie]

Found this: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1983/09/the-law-after-christ?lang=eng

Here are some pertinent quotes, but the whole thing is great. By Stephen E. Robinson

Quote

 

Even the Ten Commandments, the ethical heart of the Law, were represented by Jesus as insufficient for salvation except as encompassed within the higher principles of the gospel.

 

For example, the Savior expanded the commandments “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” by now commanding Christians to avoid even hatred or lust. (Matt. 5:28, 44.) Merely abstaining from adultery and murder was no longer sufficient. Christians must now change their very hearts, and this was more than the old Law had required.

 

Quote

And yet it is vital to note that in the teaching of Jesus, the Law was not revoked nor repealed but fulfilled. (Matt. 5:17.) Under the gospel of Christ, murder, adultery, and dishonesty are still prohibited, and the formal requirements of the Law are still essentially in place; but the demand of the Law of Moses has been expanded, has been filledto its fullest extent. Where there is no hatred or greed, there can be no murder; where there is no lust, there can be no adultery. With the coming of Christ, the ethical portion of the Law had not been abolished; it had been caught up by, included in, and expanded to a broader application its intention, its potential as an ethical standard, had been fulfilled.

Quote

As hard as it was for Judaizers to accept the end of the Law of Moses, there were those in the ancient Church who went to the other extreme. These people have been called “antinomians,” and they believed that the end of the Law gave them license to do as they pleased as long as they professed a belief in Christ. Some went so far as to claim that Christians, who were no longer bound by the Law of Moses, were even under an obligation to behave contrary to the commands of the Law. (See Rom. 6:15.) Particularly among the gentile churches, a misunderstanding of Paul’s teachings about the end of the Law of Moses caused some to believe that for Christiansall laws and rules had been abolished. By distorting the scriptures, the antinomians were able to reject the demands of the Law without accepting the demands of the gospel. In the New Testament the epistles of James, Jude, 2 Peter, and 1 Corinthians deal in part with this error. James shows that belief without proper behavior and commitment is not enough for salvation. (See James 2.) The gospel does not destroy the Law, but is itself a new law which incorporates and fulfills the old—a higher law certainly, but a law nonetheless, and one which must be obeyed.

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Connie

[Guest MormonGator]

53 minutes ago, pam said:

I think what she is hung up on is the fact that when Christ died and was resurrected he fulfilled the Law of Moses which the ten commandments were part of.  Yes he did fulfill this but he brought a higher law into place.  It didn't replace the ten commandments He basically added to it.  Instead of Thou shalt not kill, he added that one should not get angry at someone.  For thou shalt not commit adultery, he added that lustful thoughts regarding someone you aren't married to is also a sin.  So all it did was add a higher law.

I agree. 

I think He even mentioned something along of lines of not coming to abolish the law, but to reform it. 

[estradling75]

Or we could say we follow the 10 commandments as the Lord revealed them to Joseph Smith.... and given in the D&C https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/42.18?lang=eng#17

Sure the Law of Moses is done and we don't have to keep it anymore... but we do/need to keep the commandments of God that he has repeated for us in our day... and the Ten are given again to us, for us in D&C 42

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, pam said:

This is one of the comments posted:   The 10 commandments was the law given to the Israelites they were given to Moses on mount Sinai for the Israelites when Jesus Christ died he fulfilled that law and gave 2 commandments for his followers to keep we are not under the 10 commandments since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Do you agree that we are under no obligation to follow the ten commandments?

I have encountered this "oh well, that's in the Old Testament, so you don't have to pay attention to it" attitude many times with mainstream Christian.  This attitude is 300% false: the 10 commandments do still apply.  They are a small part of the larger 2 great commandments.

[Vort]

People are small, vain, and foolish. They seek to justify themselves. They like to fancy themselves smart. They look for divine loopholes, thinking to gain heaven by a careful observance of little "outs" in The Law, for which they can't be condemned because, hey, that's how it's written, and it wouldn't be fair. They think God is an attorney who has memorized ten thousand volumes of The Celestial Legal and Penal Code.

That is, until they find something they want to believe or do that is clearly outside the law. At that point, it's all "Spirit of the Law!", which is code for "I get to do what I want to do because I want to do it." If I were a better person than I am, I would always feel sorrow for such people instead of just disgust for their vanity and idiocy.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, pam said:

I think what she is hung up on is the fact that when Christ died and was resurrected he fulfilled the Law of Moses which the ten commandments were part of.  Yes he did fulfill this but he brought a higher law into place.  It didn't replace the ten commandments He basically added to it.  Instead of Thou shalt not kill, he added that one should not get angry at someone.  For thou shalt not commit adultery, he added that lustful thoughts regarding someone you aren't married to is also a sin.  So all it did was add a higher law.

So, we can't go to a swingers' convention worshiping a golden calf that we stole from Prince's mansion on Sunday?  Dang.  There goes date night this week.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, pam said:

...one of the comments posted:   The 10 commandments was the law given to the Israelites they were given to Moses on mount Sinai for the Israelites when Jesus Christ died he fulfilled that law and gave 2 commandments for his followers to keep we are not under the 10 commandments since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ .

So, is this woman LDS?

[pam]

48 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, is this woman LDS?

Not sure.  Just someone that follows the LDS Images facebook page.

[Blackmarch]

Just now, pam said:

So I posted this meme on LDS Images facebook page:

 

This is one of the comments posted:   The 10 commandments was the law given to the Israelites they were given to Moses on mount Sinai for the Israelites when Jesus Christ died he fulfilled that law and gave 2 commandments for his followers to keep we are not under the 10 commandments since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Do you agree that we are under no obligation to follow the ten commandments?

You can find the post here:  

 

if you are following the two said commandments then you will be keeping the 10 commandments because they will fall in place naturally. if you are not keeping the 10 commandments then you will have broken the two said commandments.
the 10 commandments are built upon the things of god.

the law of moses is a teacher of Godly principles- it's like a way to learning addition and subtraction, where as when christ comes and brings in the new covenant is kind of like when we graduate to multiplication and division.

If you eliminate the addition and subtraction you cannot get multiplication and division.

[NightSG]

12 hours ago, Vort said:

They look for divine loopholes, thinking to gain heaven by a careful observance of little "outs" in The Law, for which they can't be condemned because, hey, that's how it's written, and it wouldn't be fair.

So you're saying my plan to forestall His return by having each of the ~3.5 billion men on the planet know it will happen at a different hour won't work?

(If Matt 24:36 is correct, then any hour known by any man to be the one in question must be wrong.  We have enough men, therefore, to push it out by 400,000 years.)

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, we can't go to a swingers' convention worshiping a golden calf that we stole from Prince's mansion on Sunday?  Dang.  There goes date night this week.

I'm still wondering about linen-wool blends (Deut 22:11) and indoor plumbing. (Deut 23:13)

[Just_A_Guy]

17 hours ago, Vort said:

They think God is an attorney. . .

That much, in fact, is correct.    (Here's my proof.)

In all seriousness--One of the arguments I had never heard until recently--and maybe @prisonchaplain can weigh in on how mainstream this is in mainline Christianity--is the notion that the New Testament contains two parallel-but-different gospels:  A "Kingdom gospel" intended for the Jews, and a "Salvation gospel" or "Grace gospel" directed towards the world-at-large.  The kingdom gospel supposedly includes a facet of repentance/works that the salvation gospel lacks.  Paul, supposedly, was the steward of this greater "Grace Gospel", and Peter's/James's/Jude's/Jesus' statements on the importance of obedience/works/righteousness is supposedly rooted in the notion that all four of them were speaking primarily to Jews.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Vort]

 

1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said:

(Here's my proof.)

Nice proof, JAG.

[The Folk Prophet]

It's a non-issue if one is LDS. We have a modern-day prophet (many, actually) telling us to keep the ten commandments, including keeping the Sabbath holy. We also have clear direction to keep the first day of the week holy instead of the last (Sunday instead of Sat). So...there it is.

[prisonchaplain]

Jews, to this day, believe in two covenants. Theirs is a difficult one, given at Mt. Sinai. The world is only expected to mostly comply with the 7 Laws of Noah.  Similarly, in the New Testament we see a new covenant, based on faith in Christ.  However, that faith must produce obedience with Christ's commands.  Loving God/Neighbor is essential. Love for the brothers (church family) is, again, essential.  Further, Jesus kept the moral laws founded in the OT.  Moses says do not commit adultery, I say don't even think about it (lust). Moses said do not kill, I say do not angrily denounce (call your brother a fool). Moses said love your neighbor, I say love your enemy.  I could go on, but the bottom line is that grace is rooted in faith, and it produces obedience and good works. 

[Just_A_Guy]

Prisonchaplain, have you heard of the supposed kingdom gospel/grace gospel distinction I mentioned above?  How mainstream is it?

[prisonchaplain]

I've heard of it.  They claim that most of Jesus' teachings were connected to the Old Testament, and thus emphasized kingdom, whereas Paul's writings describe the new covenant of grace.  This type of slicing, dicing and over-categorizing is part and parcel of Dispensationalism.  I mostly disagree with with it, as the idea too neatly compartmentalizes history into "ages," and tries to define precisely how God works/changes in each.  It is fairly prevalent in conservative/Evangelical and especially Fundamentalist churches.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

That much, in fact, is correct.    (Here's my proof.)

What about this?

[Sunday21]

On 5/24/2016 at 9:13 PM, pam said:

So I posted this meme on LDS Images facebook page:

 

This is one of the comments posted:   The 10 commandments was the law given to the Israelites they were given to Moses on mount Sinai for the Israelites when Jesus Christ died he fulfilled that law and gave 2 commandments for his followers to keep we are not under the 10 commandments since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Do you agree that we are under no obligation to follow the ten commandments?

You can find the post here:  

 

Thank you for explaining! Major brow furrowing going on here!