Relevation & Inspiration...MTC abuse

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I’ll give you that the attempt at humor failed.  Rude is something else.

You miss the point. 

I've been considered rude a lot when I didn't mean to be. I'll agree in principle that is not on me. But...if and when I know I've been considered rude, assuming it wasn't intentional, it becomes my responsibility as a man trying to be Christian, etc., to clarify the matter, not double-down on the rude.

It's easy. I'll show you how.

"I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. Let me start over."

Done and done.

[wenglund]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Not seeing it.  Is the black guy supposed to be the chocolate?  Or his shorts?  Is Hogan the bulldog?  Then where is the pig.

And I don't see anything that would even evoke the image of kim chee to any TRUE Korean. A-hem.  We ARE considered the Irish Scots of the East.

I figure it had something to do with two board participants in a Smack Down. 

However, since one of the participants is a woman, shouldn't it be considered a Cat Fight? 

Just kidding, of course.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 27, 2018 by wenglund

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Crash said:

@anatess2 I am not sure why it is so hard to see how your attitude and behavior towards me from the very start has been rude and uncalled for. When I posted about not being familiar with folks here in order to tell if they are joking or not, you just continued to be rude and then started to insult me. This is exactly why I have defended myself against you. 

Does anyone here want to know what the responses can be from someone who has endured years of verbal, emotional and mental abuse? Well, you've just seen it from me and I do not have to put up with it from anyone.

If you want to continue flinging insults at me, you're more than welcome to do so. I've heard plenty of them from the best of them and you won't bring me down. But from me, however, peace, love, Bobby Sherman. 

This is how it went from my perspective.

I made a funny.  You replied that you can’t tell if I was being funny or not so I opened with another funny (the term is ribbing - which is actually intended to be a show of being “familiar” and in no way intended to be insulting) then explained what I meant by my first post stating “in all seriousness”, meaning everything before that was not in seriousness because it was delivered in ribbing manner but this one is serious now.  And you responded by putting VILE “words in my mouth”.  You, therefore, attacked me.  From my chair you are the rude one.  But, on the internet, I don’t mind people being rude because English is my 3rd language, therefore, I stand on the default position that if I read something that seems rude, I probably just didn’t understand their English. 

I am in no way responsible for nor understand anything about the history of abuse you experienced and, therefore, that effect on your responses or your perception of my responses is completely your own responsibility on this thing called the anonymous  internet.  I don’t make a habit of flinging personal insults at people.  I have not called you stupid or anything like that while you called me a sociopath, passive aggressive, etc etc.

But, I will concede that I need to make better use of emoticons so that I can be better understood especially by newbies around here.

If you think any of what I said here is an insult, that is also on you.  What I did here is simply to tell it like it is from my perspective.  This post is devoid of humor or ribbing just so we are clear.

Now this here following is a ribbing - don’t make me live rent free in your head.  

(The emoticon kinda works, I guess?  This is one reason I sometimes miss putting emoticons.  it’s tough to decide which one fits the mood i’m really trying to portray!  Like taz here.. the intended feeling is being a brat-in-a-funny-haha-way which is how I see taz.  But I can see it looking like a neener-neener as well with his hands waving by his ears, which is completely not what I wanted to express.  Anyway, meh.  If it doesn’t make sense, it is what it is.)

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Just for @anatess2

Hey!  Put a shirt on TFP!  We don’t need to see that skinny pale body of yours!

Ok ok, so it’s not the body... it’s that awful hair! 

[anatess2]

52 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You miss the point. 

I've been considered rude a lot when I didn't mean to be. I'll agree in principle that is not on me. But...if and when I know I've been considered rude, assuming it wasn't intentional, it becomes my responsibility as a man trying to be Christian, etc., to clarify the matter, not double-down on the rude.

It's easy. I'll show you how.

"I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. Let me start over."

Done and done.

Not this time.  And you know me well enough to know I’m completely capable of doing that.  I attempted a clarification on post 2, he responded with I thought him stupid, etc.  So I told him, nothing anymore I can do about that.

Apologizing for something I did not do would only work if the other guy is open in the convo rather than trying to bludgeon me into an apology for the perceived insult.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

And you know me well enough to know I’m completely capable of doing that.

Show me where.

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Haha.

 

I honestly never considered that someone might take my random meaningless image as a serious effort.

 

Awesome.

@Carborendum takes his kim chee seriously.  Scots I tell ya.

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

What you're describing is a person with depression. 

 

I figure we agree more than we disagree here.  I'm probably doing a bad job of saying what I'm trying to say.  I'm trying to describe someone dealing with recent trauma, and possibly some symptoms of PTSD.  Depression is different, at least so they tell me:

PTSD is a bit different, involving panic, sleep disturbance, extreme flashbacks, unwarranted physical reactions.  Going theory seems to be it's the brain, unable to process a difficult memory, bouncing it around inside the head until it can find it's 'proper place' as a memory.  Brain scans show active centers of the brain that shouldn't be active - pain centers, fight/flight, etc.

I've slept next to someone whose PTSD symptoms moved to zero over time, and whose depression stuck around.  Different experience.

 

But one thing we don't do is reinforce in a person's mind just how bad they believe the actual facts to be.  When I'm in one of my episodes, I would certainly hope that no one would try to tell me,"Oh, you're absolutely right that John should be dragged out by his ears and placed in the pit with the rancor because he made you go bankrupt when you landed on Park Place with two hotels."

I'm not sure we disagree here.  I'm making the point that sometimes people end up in greater pain or distress than actual events warrant.  I'm making the point that you can find them in rape crisis centers across the country, sitting next to victims of actual crimes, and the impact to them, and the  is similar.  I've never been to a group therapy session in a rape crisis center, but I've had experiences relayed to me.  At least in the ones I hear about, your characterization doesn't really fit.  

Nobody is suggesting we alter facts, or proper adjectives to fit a distorted world view, or support anyone in a lie.  Regarding PTSD, no matter how it showed up or how obvious (or silly) the cause, it's there, and needs to be dealt with.  And one of the more painful parts of dealing with it, for some folks, can be coming to grips with the fact that no crime was committed or consent was given.

Quote

 

But it does NOT get better by being supported in a lie or even a disproportionate view of the level of harm done to someone.  That's why laws are (ideally) written to let the punishment fit the crime.  Does it not stand to reason that our reactions should fit the stimuli?

"Our reactions", meaning the reactions of the traumatized?  Sometimes they are the dictionary definition of something that doesn't fit.

Professor Daniel Peterson relates an experience where he was prescribed a new medication, and within hours he was on the verge of suicide. He described it as a growing panic and pressure, demanding attention more and more urgently.  Even though he never lost his ability to reason, and he knew "nothing was wrong", he's relatively certain he could have acted to end his own life within hours.  One ER visit later, he's back to normal.  Yeah, sometimes people can suffer in totally disproportionate ways. 

I'm still glad you're here, brother!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm trying to describe someone dealing with recent trauma, and possibly some symptoms of PTSD.  Depression is different, at least so they tell me:

PTSD is a bit different, involving panic, sleep disturbance, extreme flashbacks, unwarranted physical reactions.  Going theory seems to be it's the brain, unable to process a difficult memory, bouncing it around inside the head until it can find it's 'proper place' as a memory.  Brain scans show active centers of the brain that shouldn't be active - pain centers, fight/flight, etc.

I don't think I have PTSD.  The reason I thought these individuals were closer to depression is that depression is they mental cycle that causes one to think a small thing is much bigger than it really is.

If that's not what these women are experiencing, then educate me.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Guest

[priesthoodpower]

On 3/25/2018 at 5:59 PM, Petty3 said:

I agree with that.

I do think that church leaders should be held to a higher standard.  I know they are human and make mistakes but they counsel others and know better.  

I feel so often callings are given out of necessity but not really inspiration.  

I've always had a testimony but over the past 6 months or so I've been shaken.  I've seen the mistakes of too many leaders.  (I know, I know...the church is true not the people.)  I'm honestly seeking answers right now but am not sure if revelation is really occurring.

This earth test is not about them, its about you.

The older we get the more connected we become with other members/leaders and the more we see their faults. That is why Jesus taught us to have faith like little children. When you were a little child you never had the thought of "callings are given out of necessity but not really inspiration". A childs faith is pure and unshakeable.

Quick story: My 7yr old daughter was looking forward to her daddy baptizing her on her 8th bday (which at the time was about 6 months away). There was no doubt in her mind that I was going to baptize her and it would be a very special day. She talked about it for six month until the day finally came. 3 days before her baptism I fell backwards off a 15ft ladder smacking my head on the concrete ground. I should have died, or at least broken a bone somewhere. But no, I was preserved to fulfill her faith in God that her daddy will baptize her.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by priesthoodpower

[Petty3]

Anyone can respond and give me their thoughts but I'd especially like to know what @LiterateParakeet and @lostinwater have to say.

I think the reason for my original question about revelation and inspiration is less to do about Joseph Bishop and more about what happened personally in my life.

For about 20 years my dad was having affairs.  He also abused me.  However in all those years he always served in a leadership position...bishopric counselor, high counselor and even bishop.  After it was discovered about the affairs and he was caught he then admitted to them and was excommunicated.   So my question is how was he able to be in those positions.  He was interviewed by a SP to receive those callings.  Why wasn't someone inspired in all those years to know he wasn't worthy.  How many temple recommended interviews did he go to?  

He was able to lie through all those interviews and all those years and no one suspected a thing?  I understand agency and that it was his own choices that were made but really...doesn't there come a time when enough is enough?  

[Vort]

24 minutes ago, Petty3 said:

So my question is how was he able to be in those positions.  He was interviewed by a SP to receive those callings.  Why wasn't someone inspired in all those years to know he wasn't worthy.  How many temple recommended interviews did he go to?

The only real answer to this is that the kingdom of God does not work the way you think it does. God does not provide a magical talisman to presiding authorities that allows them to suss out imposters. The nature of this fallen world is that wicked men will rule -- sometimes even in positions of authority in the kingdom of God.

It's worth noting that Jesus Christ himself, who is God, called as an apostle a man who betrayed him to his face and whom the Lord himself referred to as "the son of perdition".

In this world, we work to overcome wickedness in ourselves and help our brothers and sisters in their journeys. I think that institutional cleansing and perfection can come only after the inner vessels (our own souls) are cleansed.

[Just_A_Guy]

32 minutes ago, Petty3 said:

Anyone can respond and give me their thoughts but I'd especially like to know what @LiterateParakeet and @lostinwater have to say.

I think the reason for my original question about revelation and inspiration is less to do about Joseph Bishop and more about what happened personally in my life.

For about 20 years my dad was having affairs.  He also abused me.  However in all those years he always served in a leadership position...bishopric counselor, high counselor and even bishop.  After it was discovered about the affairs and he was caught he then admitted to them and was excommunicated.   So my question is how was he able to be in those positions.  He was interviewed by a SP to receive those callings.  Why wasn't someone inspired in all those years to know he wasn't worthy.  How many temple recommended interviews did he go to?  

He was able to lie through all those interviews and all those years and no one suspected a thing?  I understand agency and that it was his own choices that were made but really...doesn't there come a time when enough is enough?  

I find that I’m most bothered about unworthy people in leadership positions, when I catch myself thinking of the position as some sort of plum given as a reward for good behavior.

I don’t want to unduely downplay worthiness, and I firmly believe that worthiness exponentially increases power in one’s individual ministry.  But, as an alternate way of looking at things . . . Have you put a lot of thought into whether your father did any good in the positions that he held?

[NightSG]

4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Have you put a lot of thought into whether your father did any good in the positions that he held?

For example, did he make the trains run on time, and was he kind to dogs?

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, NightSG said:

For example, did he make the trains run on time, and was he kind to dogs?

Today's Godwin's Law award winner.

[NightSG]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

Today's Godwin's Law award winner.

Fail; trains on time was Mussolini, and kindness to dogs is a fairly common trait among psychotic dictators.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Fail; trains on time was Mussolini, and kindness to dogs is a fairly common trait among psychotic dictators.

Unless you just popped in to call Petty3’s dad a psychotic dictator, you may want to try making a logical argument somewhere in there.

[lostinwater]

49 minutes ago, Petty3 said:

Anyone can respond and give me their thoughts but I'd especially like to know what @LiterateParakeet and @lostinwater have to say.

I think the reason for my original question about revelation and inspiration is less to do about Joseph Bishop and more about what happened personally in my life.

For about 20 years my dad was having affairs.  He also abused me.  However in all those years he always served in a leadership position...bishopric counselor, high counselor and even bishop.  After it was discovered about the affairs and he was caught he then admitted to them and was excommunicated.   So my question is how was he able to be in those positions.  He was interviewed by a SP to receive those callings.  Why wasn't someone inspired in all those years to know he wasn't worthy.  How many temple recommended interviews did he go to?  

He was able to lie through all those interviews and all those years and no one suspected a thing?  I understand agency and that it was his own choices that were made but really...doesn't there come a time when enough is enough?  

@Petty3 - what you relate is a very sad story about a person who has managed to stay pure and beautiful through it all (you).

Will start by relating an experience.

i have a loose acquaintance whose young daughter hung herself.  This lady - the mother - found her daughter when it was too late.  She related that she felt *nothing* - no prompting to go check on her.  And she remembered the time when it must have happened.  Nothing out of the ordinary struck her.  And there are not many people better than this lady.

A while later, i sat in a fast/testimony meeting - a lady got up and said - and i could tell she believed it - that her family had been having a rough couple months, and had decided to go on a vacation.  While searching for a boat to use in their vacation - she felt prompted to go down one street, and bam! - there it was - the perfect boat, and a fair price to boot.  She said she knew it was revelation.  God prompting her out of love - being in the details of her life.

The total absurdity in terms of consistency struck me - and struck me hard.  

<Begin Opinion>

A lot of the answers we are fed - or at least their commonly accepted interpretations - melt like snowballs in the Sahara desert of some experiences.  

The solutions (ie the Atonement) are far more sturdy, thankfully.

There isn't a really good answer for why/why not.  i think a person - especially a victim of abuse - can eat themselves alive trying to find one, though.

i think that 95% of the time, the people who are set up, or who set themselves up - through some system or another - as conduits of revelation are people who are just as confused and lacking in knowledge as we all are - but feel like they have to pass something off as revelation, because that's the machine they got stuck in front of - and that machine is supposed to spit out revelation.  A lot of what is said is probably good - and gets used as proof of their being divinely guided all the time.  And a very healthy chunk of it is probably bad - and is readily scooped up by detractors and smeared all over the walls as proof of a total absence of any divine guidance.  My guess is it's somewhere in the middle.  Regardless, the vast majority of the bad 'revelation' is meant well, and yet no less damaging for those good intents.  Certainly your own experience speaks to that.  

Personally, i think God and Jesus try as much as they are able - through almost anyone they can get through to -  to provide guidance that helps to prevent evil in the world.  But they are working with decidedly uncooperative subjects who have free will, and trying to get past the hundreds of thousands of people speaking on blow horns to whoever will listen that they - 100% for sure - speak for God - 100% of the time.  

Add to that confused mess a subtle magnification of each generation's brokenness and fears and flaws from one to the next - and there's more and more very pure people who, despite the perfectly good intents of a loving God, have things happen to them that are absolutely terrible.  

i don't know if that even speaks to your question.  i hope so.  Sincerest apologies if not the case.  Prayers are being sent on your behalf.  Or beyond that, message me any time if i can be of any help.  

Take care of yourself - that's an exceptionally good way to be spending your time.  You are very important to all of us.  And infinitely more important than even that to God and Jesus.

<End Opinion>

For those reading, feel free to rip what i've said apart - but please leave @Petty3 out of it.  She's been through way more than enough already.

[Grunt]

4 hours ago, Petty3 said:

Anyone can respond and give me their thoughts but I'd especially like to know what @LiterateParakeet and @lostinwater have to say.

I think the reason for my original question about revelation and inspiration is less to do about Joseph Bishop and more about what happened personally in my life.

For about 20 years my dad was having affairs.  He also abused me.  However in all those years he always served in a leadership position...bishopric counselor, high counselor and even bishop.  After it was discovered about the affairs and he was caught he then admitted to them and was excommunicated.   So my question is how was he able to be in those positions.  He was interviewed by a SP to receive those callings.  Why wasn't someone inspired in all those years to know he wasn't worthy.  How many temple recommended interviews did he go to?  

He was able to lie through all those interviews and all those years and no one suspected a thing?  I understand agency and that it was his own choices that were made but really...doesn't there come a time when enough is enough?  

This is Christ’s Church, not the Bishop’s.  Not the Stake President’s.  Not even the Prophet’s.  I’ll probably get tossed out for this, but here it goes:

A recurring theme of my opinions is the natural man.  We are imperfect vessels.  EVERY leadership position is held by an unworthy man because the model is Christ.  What you are nit picking is the DEGREE of unworthiness.  That is a legitimate criticism, but it’s a criticism levied by the natural man.  

WE interpret the Scripture, ministries by the Holy Spirit, and revelations from God.  WE, the natural man, interprets these.  God will never let our leaders lead the Church astray.  He’s promised us that.  But that doesn’t mean we always get it exactly right.  Not does it mean that he doesn’t use people WE view as unworthy to do things HE finds worthy.  History is FILLED with examples of some pretty crappy people doing some pretty awesome things. That doesn’t make them less sinful, nor does it make their specific deeds less helpful.  

In short, we don’t know why He chooses the people He does. We do our best to keep His house pure.  In turn, He allows us our agency and doesn’t allow us to muck it up.   In the end, it will all make perfect sense.  

[anatess2]

18 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

AFAIK Weinstein isn’t facing criminal charges.  He transactionalized sex in an epicly ghoulish way; but I’m not sure how strong the evidence is that he “coerced” it in the classical sense of the word.

Somebody may have mentioned this already, I haven't read too many posts past this one but I just wanted to mention that Weinstein and Weinstein Co was sued by the NY AG earlier this year.  I'm not quite sure what the specific charges are but if memory serves it has to do with their "casting couch".

[Just_A_Guy]

6 hours ago, lostinwater said:

@Petty3 - what you relate is a very sad story about a person who has managed to stay pure and beautiful through it all (you).

Will start by relating an experience.

i have a loose acquaintance whose young daughter hung herself.  This lady - the mother - found her daughter when it was too late.  She related that she felt *nothing* - no prompting to go check on her.  And she remembered the time when it must have happened.  Nothing out of the ordinary struck her.  And there are not many people better than this lady.

A while later, i sat in a fast/testimony meeting - a lady got up and said - and i could tell she believed it - that her family had been having a rough couple months, and had decided to go on a vacation.  While searching for a boat to use in their vacation - she felt prompted to go down one street, and bam! - there it was - the perfect boat, and a fair price to boot.  She said she knew it was revelation.  God prompting her out of love - being in the details of her life.

The total absurdity in terms of consistency struck me - and struck me hard.  

<Begin Opinion>

A lot of the answers we are fed - or at least their commonly accepted interpretations - melt like snowballs in the Sahara desert of some experiences.  

The solutions (ie the Atonement) are far more sturdy, thankfully.

There isn't a really good answer for why/why not.  i think a person - especially a victim of abuse - can eat themselves alive trying to find one, though.

i think that 95% of the time, the people who are set up, or who set themselves up - through some system or another - as conduits of revelation are people who are just as confused and lacking in knowledge as we all are - but feel like they have to pass something off as revelation, because that's the machine they got stuck in front of - and that machine is supposed to spit out revelation.  A lot of what is said is probably good - and gets used as proof of their being divinely guided all the time.  And a very healthy chunk of it is probably bad - and is readily scooped up by detractors and smeared all over the walls as proof of a total absence of any divine guidance.  My guess is it's somewhere in the middle.  Regardless, the vast majority of the bad 'revelation' is meant well, and yet no less damaging for those good intents.  Certainly your own experience speaks to that.  

Personally, i think God and Jesus try as much as they are able - through almost anyone they can get through to -  to provide guidance that helps to prevent evil in the world.  But they are working with decidedly uncooperative subjects who have free will, and trying to get past the hundreds of thousands of people speaking on blow horns to whoever will listen that they - 100% for sure - speak for God - 100% of the time.  

Add to that confused mess a subtle magnification of each generation's brokenness and fears and flaws from one to the next - and there's more and more very pure people who, despite the perfectly good intents of a loving God, have things happen to them that are absolutely terrible.  

i don't know if that even speaks to your question.  i hope so.  Sincerest apologies if not the case.  Prayers are being sent on your behalf.  Or beyond that, message me any time if i can be of any help.  

Take care of yourself - that's an exceptionally good way to be spending your time.  You are very important to all of us.  And infinitely more important than even that to God and Jesus.

<End Opinion>

For those reading, feel free to rip what i've said apart - but please leave @Petty3 out of it.  She's been through way more than enough already.

I would disagree with your suggestion that the figure is as high as 95%—I would put it, anecdotally, at around 20%—but I think this is overall really insightful.

[estradling75]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

In short, we don’t know why He chooses the people He does. We do our best to keep His house pure.  In turn, He allows us our agency and doesn’t allow us to muck it up.   In the end, it will all make perfect sense.  

To expand upon @Grunt's comments.

God will not send revelations that are contrary to his plan.

His plan is outlined in Abraham 3

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

Therefore we should expect no revelation that counter the "proving" of an individual.

Every individual is different therefore every proving is different... but there are some commonalities

For example when a person suffers they have a choice while suffering to draw nearer to God or to "Curse God and wish to die."   Therefore for many people their "Sufferings" are a part of their "Proving" and it will not be avoided or ended until the "Proving" is complete.  In other cases "Sufferings" have nothing to do with "Proving" and the Lord can/will send revelations.  We mortals lack the wisdom to know the difference most of the time.

Another example is how a person response to having Authority or Power over other can be a "Proving"  Some will humble themselves and seek to follow the Lord's will with their power, others will seek there own will and desires.  This "Proving" will not be avoided or ended until the "Proving" is complete.  It absolutely sucks when someone abuses their authority over another, and us limited mortals should try to stop it when it becomes apparent (because that is part of our "proving").  But the idea that God should stop "Proving" someone because we find the results to totally suck do not make a lot of sense.  In other cases its not a "Proving" and God can/will send revelations.  We mortals lack the wisdom to know the difference most of the time. 

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

6 hours ago, lostinwater said:

The total absurdity in terms of consistency struck me - and struck me hard.

The fact that the Lord deals with each of us differently adds to my belief that the Lord is involved individually in each of our lives. Granted, it stems from the fact that I trust in the Lord. But the reality that in the same situation He warns one who is not perfectly righteous and does not warn another who is is not absurd. (Or, per your story, warns one in a meaningless situation and doesn't warn another in an important one). It merely implies that the Lord knows stuff that we do not.

I trust that someday we'll see the big picture and we'll all exclaim, "Oh."

Edited March 28, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[anatess2]

16 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Show me where.

Do a search on my conversations with your good friend Rob...

 

[anatess2]

19 hours ago, Vort said:

Sure. "Proving" rape is difficult in practice, but simple in concept. Did the defendant coerce (legally) the plaintiff into unwanted sex? Saying "I won't like you if you don't have sex with me" is not coercion, at least not in the legal sense. Neither, as far as I know, is "I'll say bad things about you to your parents", "I won't give you a temple recommend", or "I'll send you home from your mission."

From JAG's elucidation, "I'll say bad things to your parents, no TR, I'll send you home" as evidence can be subjectively effective/ineffective depending on the selection of the jury.  I can see how, in the court of public opinion, the fear of stigmatization within the culture can be a debilitating fear causing one to be trapped if one lives in a predominantly LDS region like Provo.  So, a jury consisting of 12 like myself might move to convict such a Provo case but maybe not in, say, Florida.

Do you know that I almost... like within one centimeter almost... applied for naturalization because I had this fleeting hopeful dream of being a jury?  Yeah... all these people at my work complain everytime they get asked to present themselves for jury selection and I'm like, I wanna be you.

Edited March 28, 2018 by anatess2