Is Visiting The Temple Really That Great? Asking for testimonies of temple experiences

[mara]

Hello, my name is Mara and I have some hesitations. I apologize if my wording of this topic's title was offensive, it is just truly something I wonder. 

I am a 17 year old bisexual Mormon. So with being bisexual there comes the possibility that I could fall in love with and my life partner could be a woman. This leads me to think about possibilities like if my life partner is a woman, I'll want to marry her but remain a member of the church. I heard about a gay couple where they were both members and when the two men were married, they were forbidden from participating in any temple visits but allowed to continue coming to church. I see this is a very real possibility for myself. I don't want to live a half-life and never get married, and despite what the church says I don't believe gay sex to be a sin as long as its consensual and the two partners are married. So I am asking the people of MormonHub to reply with their temple stories and asking how being sealed to your spouse has blessed your life and if I should deny my attractions to women and only pursue men to be able to stay allowed in the temple. I have never been to the temple so I have no experiences with how great it is or isn't. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, mara said:

being bisexual there comes the possibility that I could fall in love with and my life partner could be a woman.

What exactly does "falling in love" mean?  We know what fairy tales say and what movies say and what pop culture says.  What does "fallilng in love" mean from a gospel perspective?

[mara]

Just now, Carborendum said:

What exactly does "falling in love" mean?  We know what fairy tales say and what movies say and what pop culture says.  What does "fallilng in love" mean from a gospel perspective?

To me it is about finding someone I want to spend eternity with. 

[prisonchaplain]

I'm an outsider, but my church holds to the same standards of chastity that LDS do, so hopefully what I offer will be of use. Dr. Warren Throckmorton, of Grove City College, PA, offers Sexual Identity Therapy to homosexual men who come to him. These men are Christians, and believe it is immoral to engage in homosexual sex. They ask Dr. Throckmorton (a psychologist) to support their efforts to remain celibate. He uses a combination of straight therapeutic counseling and Biblical resourcing. His approach was approved by APA back in 2004.

Most hear of this and consider the men who choose this path to be especially righteous. After all, they are basically giving up on sexual fulfillment, believing their faith in God to be more important.

My question, then. If you are bisexual, and currently not involved, could you not simply refuse same-sex dating, so that you never found yourself hopelessly in love? You would still have the outlet of heterosexual love. Perhaps I am wrong, but saying no to one gender would not seem to be any harder than me resisting attractive women because I am already married.

[mara]

5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'm an outsider, but my church holds to the same standards of chastity that LDS do, so hopefully what I offer will be of use. Dr. Warren Throckmorton, of Grove City College, PA, offers Sexual Identity Therapy to homosexual men who come to him. These men are Christians, and believe it is immoral to engage in homosexual sex. They ask Dr. Throckmorton (a psychologist) to support their efforts to remain celibate. He uses a combination of straight therapeutic counseling and Biblical resourcing. His approach was approved by APA back in 2004.

Most hear of this and consider the men who choose this path to be especially righteous. After all, they are basically giving up on sexual fulfillment, believing their faith in God to be more important.

My question, then. If you are bisexual, and currently not involved, could you not simply refuse same-sex dating, so that you never found yourself hopelessly in love? You would still have the outlet of heterosexual love. Perhaps I am wrong, but saying no to one gender would not seem to be any harder than me resisting attractive women because I am already married.

I see what you are saying but I disagree that just not dating women would be no different than you resisting women because you are already married and that is because the only thing that would be stopping me would be myself but you have a lot more hanging on the line. That may just be because I am young and immature though that I see it that way. God made me bisexual so I don't see why I have to not act on my attraction to women as long as it's lawful and healthy. 

[prisonchaplain]

Thank you, Mara, for engaging me in this conversation. First, yes, I have a wife and family on the line, if I chose to stray. However, as horrific is that would be, the greater danger is that I would disappoint and disobey Heavenly Father. I remember a Country/Western singer arguing (facetiously, but with a strain of truth) that men just weren't created to be monogamous. That may be a bit much, but most men are prone to the initial temptation of beauty. All that to say, if your church says you were created for eternal marriage with someone of the opposite sex, and that same-sex love is forbidden, then don't you face the same spiritual danger I would?

[Grunt]

34 minutes ago, mara said:

God made me bisexual so I don't see why I have to not act on my attraction to women as long as it's lawful and healthy. 

 

Because God told you to.  It's odd that you credit God for one thing then deny him on the other.

[mara]

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Thank you, Mara, for engaging me in this conversation. First, yes, I have a wife and family on the line, if I chose to stray. However, as horrific is that would be, the greater danger is that I would disappoint and disobey Heavenly Father. I remember a Country/Western singer arguing (facetiously, but with a strain of truth) that men just weren't created to be monogamous. That may be a bit much, but most men are prone to the initial temptation of beauty. All that to say, if your church says you were created for eternal marriage with someone of the opposite sex, and that same-sex love is forbidden, then don't you face the same spiritual danger I would?

That's a good way of thinking about it, thank you. 

[mara]

17 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Because God told you to.  It's odd that you credit God for one thing then deny him on the other.

I just don't understand why he would give me these attractions then say I can't act on them. I see no reason to make people gay if they can't actually be gay. 

[prisonchaplain]

2 minutes ago, mara said:

I just don't understand why he would give me these attractions then say I can't act on them. I see no reason to make people gay if they can't actually be gay. 

Could it be that same sex attraction is a byproduct of The Fall. Father pronounced that weeds/thistles and death were punishments for Adam's taking of the forbidden fruit. It's easy to see that natural distortions (hurricanes, droughts, floods, etc.) would be part of that. So too, sickness (cancer, Alzheimers, etc.). So, perhaps same sex attraction is yet another distortion of nature. Eventually Moses declared laws prohibiting same-sex activity. Jesus double-down on the Genesis 2 definition of marriage between a man and a woman, followed by sex. So, it's not that God makes us prone to sins (alcoholism runs in my family), but that Adam's sin led to nature's corruption, with many byproducts in our genetic makeup.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, mara said:

Hello, my name is Mara and I have some hesitations. I apologize if my wording of this topic's title was offensive, it is just truly something I wonder. 

I am a 17 year old bisexual Mormon. So with being bisexual there comes the possibility that I could fall in love with and my life partner could be a woman. This leads me to think about possibilities like if my life partner is a woman, I'll want to marry her but remain a member of the church. I heard about a gay couple where they were both members and when the two men were married, they were forbidden from participating in any temple visits but allowed to continue coming to church. I see this is a very real possibility for myself. I don't want to live a half-life and never get married, and despite what the church says I don't believe gay sex to be a sin as long as its consensual and the two partners are married. So I am asking the people of MormonHub to reply with their temple stories and asking how being sealed to your spouse has blessed your life and if I should deny my attractions to women and only pursue men to be able to stay allowed in the temple. I have never been to the temple so I have no experiences with how great it is or isn't. 

So, in this answer I’m speaking only for myself; so take it for what it’s worth.

For me, there was no magic moment in the temple where lights blazed, angels sang, and I felt a spectacularly unique, life-changing, “holy cow, this makes EVERYTHING worth it!” moment.  (Certainly, nothing to compete with the passions of a teenager’s raging libido!)  I understand some people do have such experiences, and I respect them.  But, I don’t know that you should count on such a moment.  There are many universal aspects of the Gospel; but the Spirit also reveals itself in ways that are tailored to each of us.

For me, the temple is a piece of an ever-growing puzzle; the solution to which brings peace and growth and security and spiritual power.  For me those benefits come from the assurance of the Holy Spirit that one is living in accordance with God’s will; and that assurance comes at various times and places as I live my life—sometimes, yes, in the temple; but very often outside of it.  

The thing is, though, that as we grow in the Gospel we eventually reach a point where one element of living in accordance with God’s will is making and keeping temple covenants.  So in that regard my temple experiences are an integral part of my overall spiritual life and I wouldn’t trade them for anything.  Just as you believe that a relationship without fulfilling sex would merely be a “half-life”, I would say that spirituality without temple covenants would represent a catastrophic stunting of my walk in God’s paths.

But, if you reject the Church’s teachings on the law of chastity; then temple ordinances will present themselves to you as a stumbling block rather than a stepping stone.  Plenty of folks here will be happy to tell you how you’re wrong!  I will merely suggest that the disconnect will need to be resolved if you expect to maximize the power of your temple endowment.

1 hour ago, mara said:

God made me bisexual so I don't see why I have to not act on my attraction to women as long as it's lawful and healthy. 

To suggest that what we are is what God intends us to be, and that whatever we want to do is necessarily what God, in fact, wants us to do; doesn’t really jive with the LDS teaching of the Fall.  Moreover, if you believe in a god at all, then the proposition that everything on earth IS just as He wants it to be would make Him a pretty monstrous character.

And, @Carborendum is building towards a monumentally important point (probably more useful to you than anything I’m saying, and one that will serve you well regardless of whether or not you decide to date women in the future); so stick with him.  

Edited May 14, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[estradling75]

56 minutes ago, mara said:

I just don't understand why he would give me these attractions then say I can't act on them. I see no reason to make people gay if they can't actually be gay. 

The "Natural man is an enemy to God."  Everyone of us is given a challenge (often more then one) that is designed to test us to see if we will do all things the Lord Commands. 

Your attraction seem very likely to have been given to you as part of your mortal test.  Will you choose your lusts or will you choose God? Only you can answer that

Now you might think that your test is too hard.  But that is the same feeling that everyone has when they face their tests.  While the test of others may take different shapes designed to their personal weakness/needs.  Everyone struggles when they face and feels it would be easier just to give in.  And very likely they will deal with this struggle in various forms for their entire life

So while the details are yours and no one else's... The fundamental base of struggle you face is one we all share with you.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 hours ago, mara said:

Hello, my name is Mara and I have some hesitations. I apologize if my wording of this topic's title was offensive, it is just truly something I wonder. 

I am a 17 year old bisexual Mormon. So with being bisexual there comes the possibility that I could fall in love with and my life partner could be a woman. This leads me to think about possibilities like if my life partner is a woman, I'll want to marry her but remain a member of the church. I heard about a gay couple where they were both members and when the two men were married, they were forbidden from participating in any temple visits but allowed to continue coming to church. I see this is a very real possibility for myself. I don't want to live a half-life and never get married, and despite what the church says I don't believe gay sex to be a sin as long as its consensual and the two partners are married. So I am asking the people of MormonHub to reply with their temple stories and asking how being sealed to your spouse has blessed your life and if I should deny my attractions to women and only pursue men to be able to stay allowed in the temple. I have never been to the temple so I have no experiences with how great it is or isn't. 

@mara, I can't really offer you any advice. My wife and I were sealed in the temple, and it was another experience that we were able to share together. While it didn't bring us closer (we were already close and had a great marriage) it wasn't harmful or anything. 

Just know that I admire your courage to ask these questions and how you are trying to live a gospel centered life. You are in my prayers. 

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, mara said:

I am a 17 year old bisexual Mormon. 

Welcome to the forum @mara!

3 hours ago, mara said:

So with being bisexual there comes the possibility that I could fall in love with and my life partner could be a woman. 

Note: real love isn't something that just spontaneously happens by accident.  Rather it is a decision that is grown and cultivated over time.

3 hours ago, mara said:

This leads me to think about possibilities like if my life partner is a woman, I'll want to marry her but remain a member of the church. I heard about a gay couple where they were both members and when the two men were married, they were forbidden from participating in any temple visits but allowed to continue coming to church. I see this is a very real possibility for myself. I don't want to live a half-life and never get married, and despite what the church says I don't believe gay sex to be a sin as long as its consensual and the two partners are married. So I am asking the people of MormonHub to reply with their temple stories and asking how being sealed to your spouse has blessed your life and if I should deny my attractions to women and only pursue men to be able to stay allowed in the temple. I have never been to the temple so I have no experiences with how great it is or isn't. 

There's a bunch of things here--

For starters, living a life without marriage is not a half-life.  Such people are children of God and can live very joyful lives.  Also, as you are attracted to men, you can easily pursue a relationship with a man, the same as any other woman.

3 hours ago, mara said:

I have never been to the temple so I have no experiences with how great it is or isn't. 

What the temple is not: The temple isn't a tourist destination.  We don't give tours, having single choirs, or other catchy events like you would get for touring Notre Dome.  You don't go there to be dazzled and amazed at the sites.  (Ok, well some temples do have visitor centers of the grounds, but still nothing like Notre Dome).  

What the temple is:  The temple is a place to go make covenants with God.  We each commit ourselves more fully to Him-- the scriptures talk metaphorically about how Christ is the bridegroom and we each are the bride.  We pledge ourselves to Him and He to us, and we commit to walk alongside each other for forever.  And yes, that is freaking amazing and joyful. 

 

When a person is to enter into a marriage (a literal marriage or the metaphorical one described above) you want to go in with your full heart and commitment.  A person shouldn't go into it with a mistress already on the side they have no intention of giving up.  Obviously there's still going to be temptations along the way, and marriages require a LOT of work, and we each do make mistakes--- but still we should never give up that commitment and always seek to reconcile after we make a mistake.

Now, speaking specifically of our metaphorical marriage with Christ: we each should indeed enter into these with a full heart and commitment.  When slip ups happen, we reconcile and recommit via repentance.  Part of that commitment to Christ is only taking a flesh-and-blood spouse He  has in mind for you-- and the one He has in mind for you is male.  He designed men and women to be together.  Yes, you are attracted to women- I'm not denying that.  But the spouse Christ has in mind for you, the natural compliment for you, is a man.  That's the joy He has planned out for you.  Honor your commitment and love of Christ by pursuing the path of joy He laid out for you. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Sunday21]

1 hour ago, mara said:

I just don't understand why he would give me these attractions then say I can't act on them. I see no reason to make people gay if they can't actually be gay. 

Welcome @mara ! Glad you are here!

I have a friend, very service oriented Lds man who loves to read, going blind

Another friend, very service oriented Lds woman, works like mad for the Church, cancer every where including her face

Another friend, very righteous, two sons very good people, neither can work due to severe neurological problems. One is paralyzed due to a recent stroke. His wife has cancer in numerous sites.

There are so many sad stories in my ward.

God sends us trials. 

Am I correct in thinking that most Lds women are single? There are many celibate women in my ward. 

Life comes with trials.

[Sunday21]

@mara Is going to the temple that great?

Response:: Oh yeah. Soul splitting. 

Having spent time in the temple, foreign travel no longer means much to me. Going to the temple beats any earthly experience I have ever had. Being in the temple beats happy weddings, Christmas, Caribbean paradises, The Smithsonian, and Canada’s National Gallery and the sunset on Parliament Hill. It beats Ottawa.  

It beats skating on the canal in Ottawa under the quaint little bridges and snaking your way toward Parliament Hill passing happy children eating beaver tails (a pastry) and ending up at a little park festooned with sparkling ice sculptures.

The temple will blow your mind.

[lostinwater]

3 hours ago, mara said:

Hello, my name is Mara and I have some hesitations. I apologize if my wording of this topic's title was offensive, it is just truly something I wonder. 

I am a 17 year old bisexual Mormon. So with being bisexual there comes the possibility that I could fall in love with and my life partner could be a woman. This leads me to think about possibilities like if my life partner is a woman, I'll want to marry her but remain a member of the church. I heard about a gay couple where they were both members and when the two men were married, they were forbidden from participating in any temple visits but allowed to continue coming to church. I see this is a very real possibility for myself. I don't want to live a half-life and never get married, and despite what the church says I don't believe gay sex to be a sin as long as its consensual and the two partners are married. So I am asking the people of MormonHub to reply with their temple stories and asking how being sealed to your spouse has blessed your life and if I should deny my attractions to women and only pursue men to be able to stay allowed in the temple. I have never been to the temple so I have no experiences with how great it is or isn't. 

Thanks for posting this @mara

i've never been sealed (proxy excepted), but have gone through the temple.  i'm inactive now - so that's a thing of the past.  But my feelings about the temple were that i felt good on occasion - the best part for me was waiting for the session to start.  And occasionally in the celestial room.  There are very few times when we allow ourselves to just stop and focus on the divine - however you define that.  The idea of the kingdom of God being within you is one i find very interesting.  i sort of think i got in touch better with that when i was in an environment of peace and free from distractions - one that places like the temple provides.  A lot of the time, i felt confused, awkward, and a bit weird though, too.

Anyways, as someone with a transgender friend - all i can say is that if acceptance of your bisexual identity if fundamental to your emotional health, then a life inside the Mormon Church has a good chance of being an exquisitely painful experience.  And from what i've seen, it's not the healthy amount of pain/trial that leads to personal growth.  It's the crushing kind that leads to more bad than good. 

There are some very dark corners of the LGBTQ community.  Rejection plays a role in their creation - but a lot of other things too.  i know a lot of people who went to those corners after they felt rejected by a church and threw the Baby (God) out with the bathwater (religion).  There are some very good corners too, don't get me wrong.  Some of the kindest people i know inhabit them.  

There's a guy called Mark Yarhouse that talks about some of these issues.  He approaches the whole issue in a very compassionate way.  It's worth a listen if you have a chance.

i know i'll probably get eaten alive for this post.  That's OK - as long as it provides some benefit to you.  

Please take care of yourself.  

 

[person0]

3 hours ago, mara said:

I just don't understand why he would give me these attractions then say I can't act on them. I see no reason to make people gay if they can't actually be gay. 

Why does God give some people attractions to little children?  Based on your reasoning, there would be no reason to make people sexual pedophiles if they can't actually act on it.  We each have different temptations, but our temptations have no affect whatsoever on our responsibility to God.

[prisonchaplain]

As FYI, Dr. Yarhouse and Dr. Throckmorton have collaborated on this issue, and both are respected in the broad Evangelical community, as well as being credentialed by APA. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, person0 said:

Why does God give some people attractions to little children?

Is very disturbing the compair the two. If someone where you act upon their attraction of a child they would be raping the child or sexually abusing them. They are taking the child's agency away from them and causing great harm to them. When  a person is homosexual and has a sexual relationship with someone they are both consenting to the sexual act and thus acting on their own agency. 

 

I know that people will argue on this forum to no end that the two are the same, but they are not. Sad that people can not see the difference.  I am not saying the homosexuality is not a sin, but it there is a big difference between the two.

[Vort]

15 minutes ago, miav said:

2 hours ago, person0 said:

Why does God give some people attractions to little children?

Is very disturbing the compair the two. If someone where you act upon their attraction of a child they would be raping the child or sexually abusing them. They are taking the child's agency away from them and causing great harm to them. When  a person is homosexual and has a sexual relationship with someone they are both consenting to the sexual act and thus acting on their own agency. 

I know that people will argue on this forum to no end that the two are the same, but they are not. Sad that people can not see the difference.  I am not saying the homosexuality is not a sin, but it there is a big difference between the two.

The point is obvious to anyone with an ounce of logical sense, and it is not that homosexuality == pedophilia. The point is that if God "gave" the OP homosexual attractions, then God also "gave" pedophiles their sexual attractions to children. So therefore, if a homosexual is justified in practicing homosexuality BECAUSE God "gave" him/her the homosexual attractions, then by the same logic, a pedophile is similarly justified in practicing pedophilia. I mean, God made the pedophile just as surely as he made the homosexual.

This is not an argument that says that homosexuality is evil because it's yucky, just like pedophilia. This is an argument that says that if you accept the logical connection that if God created a person with homosexual desires (a questionable proposition, but one accepted for argument's sake), then the person is justified in satiating that God-given desire, then by the same logic you must grant the pedophile justification for quenching his/her "God-given" desire to sexually interact with children, you must grant the zoophile justification for getting romantic with the pooch, you must grant the necrophile justification for fulfilling his sexual urges with corpses, etc.

This is a form of ad absurdum argumentation, showing that trying to justify an action because "God made me this way" leads to absurd conclusions. That is the obvious point being made.

[Just_A_Guy]

29 minutes ago, miav said:

Is very disturbing the compair the two. If someone where you act upon their attraction of a child they would be raping the child or sexually abusing them. They are taking the child's agency away from them and causing great harm to them. When  a person is homosexual and has a sexual relationship with someone they are both consenting to the sexual act and thus acting on their own agency. 

 

I know that people will argue on this forum to no end that the two are the same, but they are not. Sad that people can not see the difference.  I am not saying the homosexuality is not a sin, but it there is a big difference between the two.

The comparison is not in the moral gravity of the acts; it is in the motivations of the actors and their moral responsibility to restrain themselves.  

I have had to watch hours on hours of interviews with child molesters—and defended a couple of them, back when I was doing criminal defense work.  The language they use to describe their “love” for the objects of their affection, and the sense of bleakness and desperation they feel when faced with the prospect of their urges going perpetually unsated, is nearly identical to that used by the gay rights lobby.  They are people (sometimes very good people in every other way) and their feelings are very, very real—but society agrees that the feelings can, and indeed must, be prevented from turning into action.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Sunday21]

@mara God also gave people a desire for sugar fat and salt. If people act continually on these food desires they can kill themselves. A large part of life’s journey is learning how to control the natural man.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Sunday21

[jerome1232]

I'd just like to add what I feel is greatest about temple attendance. It has next to nothing to do with self and everything to do with serving others.

 

I grew up not knowing my biological father, he also passed away before my high school years. Just last year I had the privilege of taking his name through the temple. I got to act as his proxy to get his endowments completed. It drove home to me what we do in the temple is a great service. We can give those who for one reason or another couldn't get baptized, endowed, or sealed in life, a chance to accept those ordinances so they may complete their journey to their Father. The joy of serving others is an amazing experience. If you work on genaology you can provide your own ancestors this amazing godly act of service.

 

As far as your indecision on whether homosexual acts are within God's law, I felt that has been sufficiently addressed. Man is in a fallen state. All of us must daily battle our natural inclinations and urges to stay on the covenant path of God. I urge you to do the same.

Edited May 14, 2018 by jerome1232

[anatess2]

18 hours ago, mara said:

I am a 17 year old bisexual Mormon. 

I think it all starts here.  Why do you use these labels?

This is where I always shake my head when I hear celebrities getting interviewed, "What is your advice to young people?"  "Be yourself."  Well, how do you know what "yourself" is?  A baby born does not come with a "yourself".  He becomes who he is by his individual choices - on how he acts upon his experiences.  Your age is immutable - you can't pretend it is a different thing because age is defined by a specific construct, not something you can choose.  But you don't have to be Mormon - you defined yourself as such because that what you chose to be.  You don't have to be bisexual either - you are not a mortal person having a spiritual journey.  You are a spiritual person having a mortal journey and, therefore, you can choose not to be defined by such physical hindrances to your spiritual self.  Rather, you can choose to be defined by your choices - your free agency.

One thing my mother taught me - for her, she named her kids in such a manner that her kids can live up to the name.  Therefore, she named me, like most other Catholics, after a Saint so that I may live up to that name.  I named my kids in the same manner - I named them after Biblical characters so they can live up to that name.  Their name becomes part of who they are.