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It seems to me that there are two kings of mass shootings taking place in our society.  One is the result of terrorism and the other are mental health issues.  I think the greater problem of the two seem to be much more towards the mental health issues.  I am not suggesting that mental health is the issue or that we should be concerned about those that require mental assistance.  But I am concerned that the public is not getting the information needed to move towards a solution.  What I think is missing is a couple of critical areas.  The first is a medication history.  I would like to know if any prescribed medications are contributing or connected to the problem.  Not just while a person is on certain medications but if they go off certain medications when performing acts of assault.

I would also like to know if there was a possibility of mixing prescription drugs with non-prescription drugs as well as the general use of non-prescription drugs.  The problem is that there are laws that prevent the disclosure of medical history.  These laws were primarily passed to keep individuals infected with various inflictions (AIDS) from being publicly discriminated against.  Perhaps it is time to loosen HIPAA restrictions - both following mass shootings situations as well as preventing them.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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I would also add that a major catalyst for mass shootings is broken families. I have heard a few times that the large majority of mass shootings are done by people who grew up without a father figure or an abusive father.

As the US starts moving further away from the nuclear family, this problem will continue to grow

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I've been researching mass shooting incidents in the US for decades now. 

What I keep finding is that in the vast majority of cases, not only was the shooter mentally ill, there were warning signs that were ignored. 

Bell Tower Sniper? He himself wrote in his journal that something was wrong with him, but he refused to get help. Turns out he had a massive brain tumor.

"I Don't Like Mondays"? She was disturbed and possibly on illegal drugs. No one noticed. 

Columbine? The kids were being treated by a mental health expert who prescribed them medication that was *not* approved for use in minors due to... risk of psychotic episodes. Couple this with the parents not paying attention even as the kids were building *bombs* at home, and the inevitable happened. 

And so on, and so on, and so on. 

There was a warning sign at some point, but it got ignored. 

The guy here in Texas who shot up a church to get back at his ex-wife? He was dishonorably discharged from the military for domestic violence. The military was supposed to have reported this to the FBI, but they never did and so his name never went on the official registry; this is why he was able to get the weapon he got. 

It's as much about people not acting on what was right in front of them as it is about the weapons themselves. 

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Just wanted to make everyone aware that wasn't already, Colorado already has "red flag laws" in place, allowing for an "extreme risk protection order" to be set.  

Quote

The petitioner must establish by a preponderance of the evidence that a person poses a significant risk to self or others by having a firearm in his or her custody or control or by possessing, purchasing, or receiving a firearm.
...
Upon issuance of the ERPO, the respondent shall surrender all of his or her firearms and his or her concealed carry permit if the respondent has one. 

And Boulder itself already had quite a number of expansive gun laws on it's books: https://library.municode.com/co/boulder/codes/municipal_code?nodeId=TIT5GEOF_CH8WE_5-8-3DIFI

There's a vast difference between "most mass killers have mental health issues", and "mental health issues are a predictor of violent behavior".  IMO, people need to understand the complexities behind the second statement, before hoping to form a relevant opinion or have relevant suggestions in the matter. 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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In my research I have found these shootings are extremely rare and sensationalized by the mainstream media.  It is no secret they want our 2nd Amendment liberties gone sp they can exert more unrighteous authority on us. 

Secret combinations are at work in our highest parts of our government trying to implement tyranny on the general population at the present time.  These people would like to control all private property in the United States.  This is difficult to do when the general population is armed with firearms especially long guns.

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I just read this recently.

Many Americans have lost sight of the truth that righteousness is the one indispensable ingredient to liberty. Perhaps as never before in our history is our nation collectively deserving of the indictment pronounced by Abraham Lincoln in these words:

“We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth, and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us.

“It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the Offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness . . .

Yes, I repeat, righteousness is an indispensable ingredient to liberty. Virtuous people elect wise and good representatives. Good representatives make good laws and then wisely administer them. This tends to preserve righteousness. An unvirtuous citizenry tend to elect representatives who will pander to their covetous lustings. The burden of self-government is a great responsibility. It calls for restraint, righteousness, responsibility, and reliance upon God. It is a truism from the Lord that “when the wicked rule the people mourn.” (Doc. & Cov. 98:9.)

 -- The Constitution — A Glorious Standard, Ezra Taft Benson, 1976 April General Conference

Edited by Still_Small_Voice

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2 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

In my research I have found these shootings are extremely rare and sensationalized by the mainstream media. 

Oh indeed.  If you ever want to know if someone talking about gun control is serious and worth listening to, ask them how their proposals will help things in St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, and Chicago.  If they do not have a ready answer, you can tell they are idea-heavy and information-light.  Zeal without knowledge is useless at least, dangerous and destructive at most.

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One of the latest mass shootings hit VERY close to home for me- metaphorically and literally.  The shooter lived within a quarter mile of me, I delivered newspapers to his house growing up, he was on the same sports team as my husband (years removed in time), my best friend drove the shooter's bus to events, the shooting place was within a mile of my grandma's house at her grocery store (obviously I've been there too).  I listened to all of the "let's defund the police!" local news last summer, and now an officer is dead and many others.

I... have a lot of thoughts on this, which I will have to figure out how to write down later today.  No, the reaction shouldn't be "DC needs tighter gun control!"- such really seems to be ignoring the very real pain the local community is feeling.  These aren't about the need for more regulation, they aren't about race, they aren't about drugs, they.... they're about real people really really hurting, before and after.

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On 3/26/2021 at 4:45 PM, Traveler said:

It seems to me that there are two kings of mass shootings taking place in our society.  One is the result of terrorism and the other are mental health issues.  I think the greater problem of the two seem to be much more towards the mental health issues.  I am not suggesting that mental health is the issue or that we should be concerned about those that require mental assistance.  But I am concerned that the public is not getting the information needed to move towards a solution.  What I think is missing is a couple of critical areas.  The first is a medication history.  I would like to know if any prescribed medications are contributing or connected to the problem.  Not just while a person is on certain medications but if they go off certain medications when performing acts of assault.

I would also like to know if there was a possibility of mixing prescription drugs with non-prescription drugs as well as the general use of non-prescription drugs.  The problem is that there are laws that prevent the disclosure of medical history.  These laws were primarily passed to keep individuals infected with various inflictions (AIDS) from being publicly discriminated against.  Perhaps it is time to loosen HIPAA restrictions - both following mass shootings situations as well as preventing them.

 

The Traveler

I once saw a list of all the psychotropic drugs that each mass shooter was on from the mid 90s to about 5 years ago. All of the shooters were on them.

Edited by Emmanuel Goldstein

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On 3/30/2021 at 8:39 PM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I once saw a list of all the psychotropic drugs that each mass shooter was on from the mid 90s to about 5 years ago. All of the shooters were on them.

With all that I have been able to gather - with rare exception (if there is an exception) both psychotropic drugs and marijuana have been involved in mass shootings.  Why is no one proposing research or limiting the availability of psychotropic drugs mixed with marijuana?  Why is gun ownership the only target on the range?

 

The Traveler

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12 hours ago, Traveler said:

With all that I have been able to gather - with rare exception (if there is an exception) both psychotropic drugs and marijuana have been involved in mass shootings.  Why is no one proposing research or limiting the availability of psychotropic drugs mixed with marijuana?  Why is gun ownership the only target on the range?

The Traveler

You and I know the answer to this question.  It does not play into getting more power and control into the hands of those who want all American citizens to be subjects and not citizens of this nation.

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Another mass shooting in Colorado.  Is it a coincidence that marijuana is encouraged in Colorado?

 

The Traveler 

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Another mass shooting in Colorado.  Is it a coincidence that marijuana is encouraged in Colorado?

Oh, not sure mj had anything to do with any of these.

The latest one is someone's boyfriend shot and killed all the adults having a mother's day celebration, and killed himself.  More family squabble than "mass shooting", in that everyone knew each other.

The King Sooper's one was a radicalized Syrian immigrant blowing away the white man in retribution for anti-muslim bullying (or something like that).  Showed the failures of our red-flag laws, because his family flagged him, and nothing was done.

The Planned Parenthood one was a mentally ill guy who 3-5 years later is still declared unfit to stand trial.

Aurora theater was another mentally ill guy.  He was still bright enough to drive past half a dozen theaters that allowed concealed carry, to one that didn't.

Columbine, of course, was bullied high schoolers and innatentive parents.

But yeah, it started to get old here in Colorado, decades ago.

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18 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh, not sure mj had anything to do with any of these.

The latest one is someone's boyfriend shot and killed all the adults having a mother's day celebration, and killed himself.  More family squabble than "mass shooting", in that everyone knew each other.

The King Sooper's one was a radicalized Syrian immigrant blowing away the white man in retribution for anti-muslim bullying (or something like that).  Showed the failures of our red-flag laws, because his family flagged him, and nothing was done.

The Planned Parenthood one was a mentally ill guy who 3-5 years later is still declared unfit to stand trial.

Aurora theater was another mentally ill guy.  He was still bright enough to drive past half a dozen theaters that allowed concealed carry, to one that didn't.

Columbine, of course, was bullied high schoolers and innatentive parents.

But yeah, it started to get old here in Colorado, decades ago.

I worked with an engineer some years ago.  He had been a virtual chain marijuana user.  I watch him detartrate over several years.  I believe he may have used other drugs as well though he was adamant that it was only marijuana.  I watched him become paranoid and unable to function.  Though he was not violent (while I knew him) we was very fearful that the world was going to end and he would be killed.  I was sure he lost connection to reality when he tried to convince me he could fly.  The last I heard from him was after he had disappeared for several months (not showing up to work among other things).  He called me from Hawaii where he was living as homeless and asked me to get his car before those trying to kill him got it.

I honestly do not know that mj is the cause but at the same time I believe that in leu of all factors; paranoia can be a factor in violence - especially if the person takes themselves out willingly.  But we will never know because HIPPA will not allow the release of medical (including psychological) conditions - even when gross crimes like mass shootings take place.  But I do find it interesting that Colorado (that legally fosters mj) has more problems that most other places.  What I am suggesting is that there is a possibility that there is something more critical than access to fire arms that may be at play - I would like access to the data - I especially believe such data should not be excluded in a court of law - beyond under the influence - we should know the history of use.  Not just of mj but the full scope and history of both prescription and recreational drugs at play.

 

The Traveler

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21 hours ago, Traveler said:

Is it a coincidence that marijuana is encouraged in Colorado?

 

34 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I do find it interesting that Colorado (that legally fosters mj) has more problems that most other places. 

Not sure what you mean by "encouraged" or "fosters".  Here's a map of the various phases of legal mj.  If you want to tie this to some sort of "more problems than most other places" map, go nuts.  I'm not saying you're wrong, but just pointing at CO and saying "yep, weed" is not really giving me a reason to believe you're right.   Last time I checked, South Dakota and Montana are hardly problem centers of the nation...

image.thumb.png.7df243e2ce0d8764450efe75069d5a77.png

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I would like to know if any prescribed medications are contributing or connected to the problem.  Not just while a person is on certain medications but if they go off certain medications when performing acts of assault.

Every case is unique but I have been talking about antipyschotics for a long time now because in the long run (depending on the patient's medical history) they can do more harm than good. Risperidone for example, is considered a "safe" drug because it is seen as an atypical antipsychotic to treat bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and aggression in autism between other conditions but it can have serious side effects in certain individuals (particularly children) and make them even more aggressive.

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3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

Not sure what you mean by "encouraged" or "fosters".  Here's a map of the various phases of legal mj.  If you want to tie this to some sort of "more problems than most other places" map, go nuts.  I'm not saying you're wrong, but just pointing at CO and saying "yep, weed" is not really giving me a reason to believe you're right.   Last time I checked, South Dakota and Montana are hardly problem centers of the nation...

image.thumb.png.7df243e2ce0d8764450efe75069d5a77.png

The problem is that there are well over 500 chemical compounds found in mj.  Some are labeled as phytocannabinoids and are known to be psychoactive.  Not all the compounds are created equal and if you talk to an expert, such compounds can have various effects in different hosts - in addition the effects can be modified if used in connection to other drugs.  I have not seen any research data on mj in association with other drugs.  This is a good indication that the effect can vary greatly with lots of possible "bad" effects.

To answer your question about encourage or foster.  I would point out that our society has dismissed all morality such that the only remaining definition of "wrong" is something that is not only just illegal but heavily prosecuted.   There are so many variations with 500+ chemical compounds in correspondence with possible mixtures of both illegal and legal drugs it is impossible to know of specific deadly combinations.  I am suggesting that HIPPA regulations be lifted in all cases of mass shooting to see if there are any possible correlations to specific drugs and their combinations.   I am most concerned with mj because it is presented as a "harmless" drug that really does not hurt anyone - much safer than alcohol (for example).   I am suggesting that we really do not know such to be accurate.

I agree that it can be likely that mj plays little or no role - but I am suggesting that until we know what we do not know how can the FDA sanction legal use any of a psychoactive drug for recreational use? 

 

The Traveler

 

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1 hour ago, Suzie said:

I would like to know if any prescribed medications are contributing or connected to the problem.  Not just while a person is on certain medications but if they go off certain medications when performing acts of assault.

Every case is unique but I have been talking about antipyschotics for a long time now because in the long run (depending on the patient's medical history) they can do more harm than good. Risperidone for example, is considered a "safe" drug because it is seen as an atypical antipsychotic to treat bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and aggression in autism between other conditions but it can have serious side effects in certain individuals (particularly children) and make them even more aggressive.

When it comes to mass shooting - I wonder how unique every case may be and if it is possible that a cocktail of drugs thought to be "safe" can produce  unsafe results.  In particular I wonder if cannabis or some other drug used with safe drugs plays a role.  Without releasing data for research - we will never know.  But in the meantime I would suggest anyone on a prescribed regiment, avoid any and all recreational experimentation with whatever drug that might be available in today markets.

 

The Traveler 

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32 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I am suggesting that HIPPA regulations be lifted in all cases of mass shooting to see if there are any possible correlations to specific drugs and their combinations.

Well, I'm all for gathering good data.  So ok.

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