Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)

[JohnsonJones]

7 hours ago, mirkwood said:

@JohnsonJones the Covid death numbers are inflated and we all know it.  That is a huge part of the problem with this whole mess.

The actual estimated numbers don't come from the reported numbers, but are calculated the same way they calculate the excess deaths from other illnesses such as the flu and pneumonia.

Those numbers actually say we had close to a Million deaths already as of June of 2021, FAR in excess of what the official count is and indicates that if anything, we are undercounting.

I don't believe I used the estimated numbers of deaths (won't normally be finalized until 2 or 3 years after anyways so it's still in the estimates phases, but the estimates seem to indicate we have UNDERCOUNTED...not overcounted).  I only used the supposed count (which was old as of the middle of summer, I'd have to look up what the official numbers say now) as the add on of the number that I arrived at from the percentage you gave off.

The numbers I arrived at were based off the percentage you gave as a percentage of the US population (as per 2019). 

Which, going off your .3% mortality gives us a higher death rate than what has been given officially thus far for either the Alpha OR Delta versions (original or new version going around today) and is more deadly to us than any war has been.

It works both ways for you though (funny how people ONLY focus on one thing and not the other).  While the numbers seem to indicate that the number of deaths are going to be higher than any pandemic thus far, the PERCENTAGES thus far are lower than the percentage of population dead from the Spanish flu epidemic (as I noted, we'd need around 2 million dead from Covid before we hit that percentage of the population) which is a plus when discussing the .3 mortality rate you stated.  Perhaps not the biggest thing to brag about as it's still a LOT of death, but at least not 2 million dead (we hope). 

If it DOES hit 2 million dead than something is seriously wrong with the American People as with our modern medicine we shouldn't HAVE that high of a percentage dead from a virus with our modern technology and medicine.

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[mikbone]

[Traveler]

11 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

.....

If it DOES hit 2 million dead than something is seriously wrong with the American People as with our modern medicine we shouldn't HAVE that high of a percentage dead from a virus with our modern technology and medicine.

 

I am trying to understand this logic.  Are you suggesting that technology and medicine are the solutions?  Or that there is something seriously wrong with the American People as opposed to other Peoples?  Or both?  

From a "religious"  (LDS) standpoint (prophesy) - could there be any other possibilities in your mind?

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

12 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am trying to understand this logic.  Are you suggesting that technology and medicine are the solutions?  Or that there is something seriously wrong with the American People as opposed to other Peoples?  Or both?  

From a "religious"  (LDS) standpoint (prophesy) - could there be any other possibilities in your mind?

 

The Traveler

We have better healthcare and education on how to deal with illness and sicknesses today in our modern era, moreso than any other time in history.   We SHOULD have the ability to ensure that the mortality rate of a disease which supposedly has less lethality than the Spanish flu does not have a higher percentage of death than the Spanish Flu did. 

IF the mortality percentage of population is greater than that which was with the Spanish Flu, than something seriously went wrong.

A comparison to help one understand better.

Today we have more safety features on cars than ever before.  We SHOULD, at least percentage wise, have fewer deaths from Car accidents than they did in the 1950s.  With all those safety and technological advances, if we EXCEED the percentage of deaths today than what we had in the 1950s, despite all the advances we have had, something is seriously going wrong.

It could be any number of things (laws were passed which made the vehicles more unsafe even with added safety features, the greater speed limits make the safety features and technology moot, people just want to kill themselves by crashing cars...etc...what has gone wrong could be many things), but something along the line went wrong if a higher percentage of deaths is occurring than in the past.

The same applies to the current pandemic.

 

Edit: Part 2, from a RELIGIOUS standpoint...well...I suppose it could be seen that way.

If it IS in that light, it is due to the wickedness of the people and their choosing wickedness over righteousness.  Unfortunately, the rain falls on the wicked and the righteous, so the righteous will have some suffering as well, but overall, much of it would be due to the wickedness of the people.  Their pride, selfishness, and only caring for themselves, coveting what others have, immorality, and all manner of sins which cause them to focus on themselves and their own desires rather than that of others and the Lord.

Edited September 9, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[SpiritDragon]

35 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

We have better healthcare and education on how to deal with illness and sicknesses today in our modern era, moreso than any other time in history.   We SHOULD have the ability to ensure that the mortality rate of a disease which supposedly has less lethality than the Spanish flu does not have a higher percentage of death than the Spanish Flu did. 

This is where things get pretty well impossible to compare effectively across time. We can't compare apples to apples because we are simply under different circumstances. The spanish flu had the opportunity to be spread by overstressed, overtired, undernourished soldiers coming home from war to all parts of the world under different guidelines and understanding than we have now. Today, while we didn't have to compete with soldiers coming home from a world war, we dealt with world travel on a scale never before seen to bring this to/from all parts of the world. But because we used the measures we did in our era and they used the measures they did in their era and the measures aren't identical and perhaps more important to the point of lethality neither were the treatments offered, we can't accurately determine if we did a better or worse job or were simply up against a more ferocious or more tame enemy.
 

[Anddenex]

7 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

This is where things get pretty well impossible to compare effectively across time. We can't compare apples to apples because we are simply under different circumstances. The spanish flu had the opportunity to be spread by overstressed, overtired, undernourished soldiers coming home from war to all parts of the world under different guidelines and understanding than we have now. Today, while we didn't have to compete with soldiers coming home from a world war, we dealt with world travel on a scale never before seen to bring this to/from all parts of the world. But because we used the measures we did in our era and they used the measures they did in their era and the measures aren't identical and perhaps more important to the point of lethality neither were the treatments offered, we can't accurately determine if we did a better or worse job or were simply up against a more ferocious or more tame enemy.
 

One thing we can say with the Spanish Flu, there wasn't any discussion pertaining to, "Well, you may not know you have it." It definitely isn't "supposed" also, the Spanish Flu was more lethal and it didn't have a particular "high risk" group to worry about. If you contracted the Spanish Flu, no matter your state of health, you had to worry. First year the Spanish Flu killed between 20 million to 40 million individuals (with a population around the globe much lower than it is now - 1.8 Billion in comparison to 8 Billion). If I am remembering correctly, the first year with Covid was around 1.3 million. We have nearly 7 times greater population -- worldwide -- with nearly 20 to 40 times less the death rate.

With the Spanish Flu there wouldn't have been any memes saying, "Imagine a virus so dangerous you have to be told you have it," or asymptomatic. So the idea of what virus was more deadly is easily seen in the statistics. I am also more concerned about how many doctors -- who practiced medicine and saw patients -- were shut up, and how in the beginning (can't find the videos anymore) of doctors concerned with how it was being treated. Some even saying that the treatment was causing more harm then the virus.

[mirkwood]

[clwnuke]

President Dementia-Biden-Vaccinista now thinks the Labor Department has emergency powers to mandate private companies to require vaccines. What a croc!

This should be a rather short court fight before it is stayed.

[Anddenex]

4 hours ago, clwnuke said:

President Dementia-Biden-Vaccinista now thinks the Labor Department has emergency powers to mandate private companies to require vaccines. What a croc!

This should be a rather short court fight before it is stayed.

These are the types of decrees that are clear signs that the Constitution will hang by a thread.

[Jedi_Nephite]

21 hours ago, Anddenex said:

These are the types of decrees that are clear signs that the Constitution will hang by a thread.

I think it’s been hanging by a thread for quite a while now.  I think the question is how much thread is left for it to hang by?

[clwnuke]

19 minutes ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

I think it’s been hanging by a thread for quite a while now.  I think the question is how much thread is left for it to hang by?

In principle we abandoned the Constitution long ago IMHO. If it is still hanging, it is by nanoscale spider silk that has been stretched to infinity. 

 

[NeedleinA]

What do you do when you completely and humiliatingly botch the entire exit out of Afghanistan?
What do you do when can't fix employment shortages, out of control inflation, when being woke starts to backfire on you, etc??
You deflect, you redirect and you get the peasants distracted by something else... like more mandates that threaten their livelihood. 
When you can't win anything abroad and you have burned all our international credibility, try threatening those at home with the sword instead. 

If the Taliban are the new choir boys... then simply classify the unvaxxed as the new terrorist? Pit family against family, neighbor against neighbor or church member against church member.

Our city just received one of the recent 13 KIA service members from Afghanistan. 
Our city for one, will not be so quick to forget or easily distracted.  

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by NeedleinA

[clwnuke]

8 September 2021: Another false Covid belief meets the reality of actual data

Don't Vaccinate Teenage Boys!

Research conducted by the University of California has found that teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems caused by the COVID-19 vaccine than to be hospitalized as a result of COVID-19 itself. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

A team led by Dr. Tracy Hoeg at the University of California investigated the rate of cardiac myocarditis – heart inflammation – and chest pain in children aged 12-17 following their second dose of the vaccine. They then compared this with the likelihood of children needing hospital treatment owing to Covid-19, at times of low, moderate and high rates of hospitalization.

Researchers found that the risk of heart complications for boys aged 12-15 following the vaccine was 162.2 per million, which was the highest out of all the groups they looked at. This compares to the risk of a healthy boy being hospitalized as a result of a COVID infection, which is around 26.7 per million, meaning the risk they face from the vaccine is 6.1 times higher!

_________________________________________

[mikbone]

Im encouraged to see 100,000+ people in the stands watching the Oregon vs. Ohio St football game. They did not require proof of vaccination.  

General conference will again be closed to the public next month.  

I realize that conference is an indoor event so it is appropriate.  Maybe if this social plague continues we can plan to have conference in an outdoor venue in the future.

I love to see the patriotism of Americans, and their refusal to be cowed by fear.  

Edited September 11, 2021 by mikbone

[clwnuke]

Coming to a hospital near you - the unintended consequences of poor policy decisions!

NY Hospital Forced To Stop Delivering Babies After Maternity Workers Resign Over Vaccine

A hospital in upstate New York has been forced to 'pause' the delivery of babies starting Sept. 24 after a flood of maternity workers resigned over Covid-19 vaccine mandates.

Lewis County Health System CEO Gerald Cayer made the announcement in a Friday press conference, according to WWNY. According to Cayer, six employees in the maternity unit resigned and another seven are 'undecided,' rendering the hospital unable to safely deliver children.

"If we can pause the service and now focus on recruiting nurses who are vaccinated, we will be able to reengage in delivering babies here in Lewis County," said Cayer.

Cayer said 165 hospital employees have yet to be vaccinated against COVID-19; that’s 27 percent of the workforce.

The other 464 workers, or 73 percent of employees, have gotten their shots, he said.

In August, the state announced all health care workers at hospitals and long-term care facilities across New York would be required to have gotten at least their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination by September 27.

Cayer said the announcement prompted 30 workers to get vaccinated, while another 30 resigned. -WWNY

[NeedleinA]

[FunkyTown]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:34 AM, JohnsonJones said:

We have better healthcare and education on how to deal with illness and sicknesses today in our modern era, moreso than any other time in history.   We SHOULD have the ability to ensure that the mortality rate of a disease which supposedly has less lethality than the Spanish flu does not have a higher percentage of death than the Spanish Flu did. 

IF the mortality percentage of population is greater than that which was with the Spanish Flu, than something seriously went wrong.

A comparison to help one understand better.

Today we have more safety features on cars than ever before.  We SHOULD, at least percentage wise, have fewer deaths from Car accidents than they did in the 1950s.  With all those safety and technological advances, if we EXCEED the percentage of deaths today than what we had in the 1950s, despite all the advances we have had, something is seriously going wrong.

It could be any number of things (laws were passed which made the vehicles more unsafe even with added safety features, the greater speed limits make the safety features and technology moot, people just want to kill themselves by crashing cars...etc...what has gone wrong could be many things), but something along the line went wrong if a higher percentage of deaths is occurring than in the past.

The same applies to the current pandemic.

 

Edit: Part 2, from a RELIGIOUS standpoint...well...I suppose it could be seen that way.

If it IS in that light, it is due to the wickedness of the people and their choosing wickedness over righteousness.  Unfortunately, the rain falls on the wicked and the righteous, so the righteous will have some suffering as well, but overall, much of it would be due to the wickedness of the people.  Their pride, selfishness, and only caring for themselves, coveting what others have, immorality, and all manner of sins which cause them to focus on themselves and their own desires rather than that of others and the Lord.

Maybe it's because I'm not American, but can we get some context on those numbers? I live in the UK, and here is our death rate in total for 2021, and you can go back decades as well 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

 

2019 has the same death rate as 2020. The same. No excess deaths at all. 0.

 

I know the US is different, but if we're in Spanish Flu territory, you should be able to show millions more deaths than ha 2019, right? Can I get your sources?

 

Not Coronavirus numbers. Just raw deaths, please. Heart attacks and cancer deaths as well as suicides shot up during lockdown, so there will inevitably be an overage. I just want to see the millions more.

[dprh]

7 hours ago, FunkyTown said:

Maybe it's because I'm not American, but can we get some context on those numbers? I live in the UK, and here is our death rate in total for 2021, and you can go back decades as well 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

 

2019 has the same death rate as 2020. The same. No excess deaths at all. 0.

 

I know the US is different, but if we're in Spanish Flu territory, you should be able to show millions more deaths than ha 2019, right? Can I get your sources?

 

Not Coronavirus numbers. Just raw deaths, please. Heart attacks and cancer deaths as well as suicides shot up during lockdown, so there will inevitably be an overage. I just want to see the millions more.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

[FunkyTown]

20 hours ago, dprh said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

This is really interesting. I looked at Macrotrends, because I look at data analysis, and this is what I saw:

 

<a href='https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate'>U.S. Death Rate 1950-2021</a>

 

I'm curious as to why some sources of the death rate seem so different to others. It's unprecedented to see such vast disparities in the data and I'm unsure why.

 

That doesn't have the same number of deaths as your source.

I'm very confused. Why are different sources for the death rate showing different options? Why are some showing such a vast difference?

EDIT: Actually, since mine is deaths per 1000 rather than raw data, if there was a massive influx of immigrants in the US, that would explain the discrepancy. Or just a huge... HUGE... MASSIVE baby boom. Cloning could also explain it. Or incorrect data from one source. Any of those would work. Some are more likely than others.

Edited September 15, 2021 by FunkyTown

[Anddenex]

I find this a very interesting study: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/people-who-have-already-had-covid-19-could-be-less-likely-catch-delta-vaccinated

[mirkwood]

I had seen that but forgot to post it. Thanks for putting it here. 

[Anddenex]

It's nice to see some NBA players who are properly reasoning through this and not trying to speak for a narrative:

 

[mikbone]

In my hometown about 20 nurses (who we had been calling health care heroes) refused to get the vaccine and have been escorted off the hospital premise.

We then had to call in help from the National Guard and the news outlets are saying that the national guard were called in due to the delta variant bump in cases  (instead of the imposed loss of staff).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/04/national-guard-california-hospitals-covid

/face palm

Edited October 6, 2021 by mikbone

[Traveler]

15 hours ago, mikbone said:

In my hometown about 20 nurses (who we had been calling health care heroes) refused to get the vaccine and have been escorted off the hospital premise.

We then had to call in help from the National Guard and the news outlets are saying that the national guard were called in due to the delta variant bump in cases  (instead of the imposed loss of staff).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/04/national-guard-california-hospitals-covid

/face palm

There is something else I find much more concerning (for me) in the article you linked.  It came from the last paragraph (before the request for funding).  It appears to me that the primary problem of COVID infections is hitting worse at the migrant workers demographic - most of which are illegal  and minorities (including blacks) - which corresponds mostly to the dynamic that is coming across our southern borders unencumbered by our current and new administration.   What information the article fails to provide is what current policy of releasing unvacated (and untested for COVID) illegal immigrants are contributing directly to the increase of infections.

If there is indeed a problem why has our news media (including this article) failed the citizens so completely in researching out the actual cause and threat?

 

The Traveler

[mikbone]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/southwest-fllght-cancellations-pilots-association-president/

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/10/13/politics/tsa-covid-vaccinated-employees-deadline/index.html

Darn COVID.  I’d hate to be traveling now…

Edited October 14, 2021 by mikbone