Who do we deal with during Final Judgment?

[Guest]

I wish we just dealt with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a private manner bit so many things say others will be there. One thing is our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life. Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party? I wish it was just an intimate experience between the Father the Son and you.

[Guest]

Oh I heard all our old Bishops will be there too. Fun reunion.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

I wish we just dealt with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a private manner bit so many things say others will be there. One thing is our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life. Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party? I wish it was just an intimate experience between the Father the Son and you.

Ummm... the final judgement is not a time to be worried about being embarrassed.....   It's a time of honesty, of accountability, and about all of us-- beliefs, actions, mistakes, growth etc.  

[askandanswer]

I'm planning on hiring JAG when the time comes. if he's as good as I think he is, I'll be able to do what I like in this life, and then just leave it to my lawyer to sort out on judgement day.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life.

Look at it this way.  They already know.  You already know.  You know they know.  So, what changes?

[james12]

I don't believe we will end up in some court room with a judge and all our accusers before us. Terminology referring to a judgement bar is given just to provide some context so we can understand. No, the Lord needs no such tools, we will be judged based on who we are. And who we are will be determined by our reactions to what we have heard and seen in this life. Therefore, people may rightly say that we will be judged by Joseph, or by our bishop, or by the Book of Mormon because we have heard their words and either accepted or rejected them in our hearts, but they will not be accusing us in a great court room in the sky.

We will be our own judges and our own accusers. As Alma said, "If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so he shall be rewarded unto righteousness. These are they that are redeemed of the Lord, yea, these are they that are taken out, that are delivered from that endless night of darkness; and thus they stand or fall; for behold, they are their own judges, whether to do good or do evil." (Alma 41:6-7). And again Moroni says: 

Quote

Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation - behold when the Lord shall come, ...in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God - then will ye say that there is no God? ...Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws? Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell. (Moroni 9:2-4)

So focus on who you are becoming. Desire to do good, and work to bring forth righteousness all your days. And when the time comes to stand before the Lord you will find that you already know your place and will go there because it fits you. If you have been wicked you will go with those that are wicked and if righteous with the righteous.

Edited August 24, 2016 by james12

[Guest]

@james12,

HAH!  I like the new avatar!

[james12]

It seemed like it was time. 

[zil]

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I wish we just dealt with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a private manner bit so many things say others will be there. One thing is our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life. Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party? I wish it was just an intimate experience between the Father the Son and you.

It is my experience that with full repentance and forgiveness, embarrassment disappears along with the guilt.

How often have we heard stories of someone who has overcome a weakness and admired that person's determination and humility?  If you have become the kind of person who is constantly repenting and improving, there will be no embarrassment and no shame.

7 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I'm planning on hiring JAG when the time comes.

No offense to JAG, but I have a much better Advocate.

 

[CV75]

9 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I wish we just dealt with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a private manner bit so many things say others will be there. One thing is our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life. Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party? I wish it was just an intimate experience between the Father the Son and you.

The original twelve disciples also, and the Nephite twelve if you you are  a descendant of Lehi. Your repentance and sanctification processes will leave those sins off the table; only unrepentant sin applies, and hence the agony of the exposed hypocrite and the proud.

Edited August 24, 2016 by CV75

[Traveler]

 

I thought it might be interesting to review some of the symbolism concerning our passing to resurrection and eternal life.   The first symbolism comes to us from Genesis where we are told that Cherubim (plural) and a flaming sword “KEEP” the way to the Tree of Life.  We learn more of the symbolism of Cherubim from instructions for the ancient temple where the Judgment (Mercy) Seat of G-d is represented.  Two Cherubim are presented there – one on the right hand of G-d and one on the left hand.  It is interesting that the ancient Hebrew that describes these two Cherubim can be translated to say “And the two brothers shall face each other”.

I see and understand the final judgment to be an opportunity to present what we have learned and accomplished in our great quest to come to a knowledge of both Good and Evil in order that we can prove worthy to, with full knowledge and agency, choose to what extent we will partake of the Tree of Life and covenant to so live in eternity.  As I understand – some will want to endorse various levels and combinations of truths and lies for their covenant and some will have fully sought for and desire only what is true and right with much sacrifice and service.  I do not believe G-d will divide us but that we will divide ourselves.  That it is the hope, love and charity of G-d what we will all choose to serve and sacrifice for truth and right – but no one will be forced to choose what covenant by which they will enjoy eternity.

In my personal ongoing quest for truth and understanding – I find no other Church or system on this earth more qualified to assist mankind along the way that leads to the Tree of Life; than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

The Traveler

[NightSG]

9 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party?

Your 5th grade English teacher.  With a red pen and a stack of your Facebook posts.

All that work just to find out the CK is a completely unattainable goal.

[Blackmarch]

12 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I wish we just dealt with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a private manner bit so many things say others will be there. One thing is our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life. Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party? I wish it was just an intimate experience between the Father the Son and you.

no idea outside of Christ and God who's going to be there exactly... however that bit about having all our deeds being shouted from the rooftops doesn't says t ome at some point its going to be fairly public.

[Guest]

I just hope the bad sins that were repented of are blotted out and not mentioned. I spent lots of time repenting in hopes that Heavenly Father and Jesus wouldn't mention them again to me. Shouting these things from the rooftops so the angels heard while I'm there would cause me to crawl into a ball of embarrassment.

[NightSG]

8 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I spent lots of time repenting in hopes that Heavenly Father and Jesus wouldn't mention them again to me. Shouting these things from the rooftops so the angels heard while I'm there would cause me to crawl into a ball of embarrassment.

Then you should probably cancel your subscription to that site.  

[zil]

15 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I just hope the bad sins that were repented of are blotted out and not mentioned. I spent lots of time repenting in hopes that Heavenly Father and Jesus wouldn't mention them again to me. Shouting these things from the rooftops so the angels heard while I'm there would cause me to crawl into a ball of embarrassment.

a) Remember who it was that said he would remember your sins no more.

b) Remember whose brilliant idea it was to hide

c) Make up your mind now to never, ever hide from the one being in the universe who can help you, no matter what, no matter who, no matter how painful it might be, decide now to never, ever hide

[Edspringer]

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

I thought it might be interesting to review some of the symbolism concerning our passing to resurrection and eternal life.   The first symbolism comes to us from Genesis where we are told that Cherubim (plural) and a flaming sword “KEEP” the way to the Tree of Life.  We learn more of the symbolism of Cherubim from instructions for the ancient temple where the Judgment (Mercy) Seat of G-d is represented.  Two Cherubim are presented there – one on the right hand of G-d and one on the left hand.  It is interesting that the ancient Hebrew that describes these two Cherubim can be translated to say “And the two brothers shall face each other”.

I see and understand the final judgment to be an opportunity to present what we have learned and accomplished in our great quest to come to a knowledge of both Good and Evil in order that we can prove worthy to, with full knowledge and agency, choose to what extent we will partake of the Tree of Life and covenant to so live in eternity.  As I understand – some will want to endorse various levels and combinations of truths and lies for their covenant and some will have fully sought for and desire only what is true and right with much sacrifice and service.  I do not believe G-d will divide us but that we will divide ourselves.  That it is the hope, love and charity of G-d what we will all choose to serve and sacrifice for truth and right – but no one will be forced to choose what covenant by which they will enjoy eternity.

In my personal ongoing quest for truth and understanding – I find no other Church or system on this earth more qualified to assist mankind along the way that leads to the Tree of Life; than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

The Traveler

Any insights about the highlighted sentence? 

I strongly and definitely agree with the last paragraph!

[Guest]

I was going to start a new thread to share something that just happened.  But I realized that this thread would be the perfect place to share it.

The other day I acted reprehensibly at work.  While several people spoke with me about it, one of them spoke like a true Christian.  He was so understanding, and gentle, and loving, and filled with peace.  But he made it very clear where he stood on my behavior.  Yet I didn't feel abashed after having spoken with him.

Today I went to him and apologized.  I apologized to others.  But with him, he said that he was proud of me for having humbled myself enough to apologize and admit I was wrong.  And the part I wanted to share was my response.

"Well, you make it easy."

It was easy to come to him and apologize first.  Then that made it easy to apologize to others.  And I felt at peace while doing it.

I wonder if we think of the Lord's judgment as the fire and brimstone, Old Testament style rather than the peaceful and loving judgment.  As I pondered how easy it was, I recognized the word that stood out in the verse

Quote

Come unto me, all ye that are heavy laden and I will give you rest.  For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

 

[NeuroTypical]

I'm guessing people who wronged us will be there.  We are commanded to forgive everyone.  It'll be a good way to see if we're cleansed of all sin and able to stand in the presence of God.

My wife's side of the family tells the story of an aunt or someone's grandma (I don't remember exactly who, but they know).  She got out of a very traumatic abusive marriage early in life, and grew into a strong woman of deeply held opinions of right and wrong.  At the other end of her life, she began to die.  Apparently it took a while, and she was lucid and communicating for parts of it.  As she lie in her bed, she described a path, a light, and someone coming out of it to meet her.  Then her face darkened and she spat out "You!"  Her vitals stabilized and she stopped dying for a period of time.  Soon, she started dying again, and again, she described the same scene.  She had the same reaction as her first husband reached out his hand to her.   The third time, she gave a big burden-lifting sigh and said "okay.", and apparently took his hand, and died.  

The story has always been a good exercise for me.  Should I die and see a light, whose hand would I refuse if they came to usher me across?  Am I truly that hard-hearted and unforgiving to accept whom God sends to me?  Do I doubt God that much, that I figure some bad guy managed to lie his way into God's good graces, just to hurt me?

Edited August 25, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

On 8/23/2016 at 10:59 PM, askandanswer said:

I'm planning on hiring JAG when the time comes. if he's as good as I think he is, I'll be able to do what I like in this life, and then just leave it to my lawyer to sort out on judgement day.

JAG is a top-notch guy. I think very highly of him. But frankly, I plan to have Jesus Christ himself as my advocate with the Father.

[NightSG]

33 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm guessing people who wronged us will be there.

Ah!  Trial by combat!  I'm liking this.

Quote

We are commanded to forgive everyone.

Can it wait until after I beat them up?

[NeuroTypical]

Well, in full disclosure, I can see me being one of the guys that gets sent to get the person I've hurt.  (Assuming, of course, I actually make it that far, the thought of which is another good exercise for me.)

[Traveler]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 0:27 PM, Edspringer said:

Any insights about the highlighted sentence? 

I strongly and definitely agree with the last paragraph!

 

Some insights – a scripture search for cherub will produce a lot of interesting results.  The only references I can find to what is meant by a cherub that “covers” is in reference to the cherubim that covers with wings at the Mercy Seat (Exodus 25:20).   Now I would reference the ancient Hebrew poetic structure of Ezekiel 28:11-19.  Because this is a poetic structure we know symbolism is involved.  I would point particularly to verse 14.  With the symbolism – I would suggest that one of the “anointed” “covering” cherub is Satan – that same that beguiled Eve in the Garden of Eden.  Note that the Hebrew term for “anointed” is translated in English as - Messiah.

Verse 19 of Exodus is where we see the two cherubim facing each other – the KJV of the Bible says, “and their faces shall look one to another”.  It was this reference that I was told by a Rabbi (not LDS) that a known and established variant translation of the text is, “and the two brother shall face each other.”

If we are to follow the symbols given in scripture in connection to the Cherubim we will find the following:

A sword (justice)

A flame (cleansing)

Keeper of the way (I am the way)

On the right hand of G-d.

I would submit that in Jesus and only Jesus do we find fulfillment of all the good symbolism concerning Cherubim and Satan as the fulfillment of all the bad symbolism.

I hope this helps in your personal study.  If anyone has any other possible prophetic fulfillment of the symbolism that surrounds the use of Cherubim in scripture - I would be most interested in what other two "Messiahs" will face off against each other at the final judgement.

 

The Traveler

[UtahTexan]

On 8/23/2016 at 10:52 PM, Zarahemla said:

I wish we just dealt with Heavenly Father and Jesus in a private manner bit so many things say others will be there. One thing is our life review will be shown to all beings around and they get to see our many embarrassing mistakes in life. Moroni promised he'd be there and Brigham Young said we will all need to get Joseph Smith's approval to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Who else is going to invade this party? I wish it was just an intimate experience between the Father the Son and you.

This goes under the category "I will Cross that Bridge When I Get to It."  I do not see the purpose or value of worrying about it now.  If I do what I am supposed to do, it does not matter who it is

[Guest]

1 hour ago, UtahTexan said:

This goes under the category "I will Cross that Bridge When I Get to It."  I do not see the purpose or value of worrying about it now.  If I do what I am supposed to do, it does not matter who it is

We are a church that focuses so much on what hasn't happened yet though.