Church dropping Scouting program

[NightSG]

36 minutes ago, Vort said:

I have never heard of non-LDS Varsity teams, though.

Because it doesn't make much sense outside of LDS troops; it's mostly just normal Scout stuff everywhere else.  The few things that were seen as a bit too advanced to be simply normal troop activities with an appropriate age limit were handled in Venturing.

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, eddified said:

I haven't seen any statement signaling that the church may drop other BSA programs. Citation, please?

It's not a matter of statements, but of reading the lay of the land. The LDS Church was the first (or at least among the first) sponsoring body for BSA troops. They started sponsoring troops in 1913, only three years after BSA was created. That is to say, the LDS Church has been officially and deeply affiliated with Scouting in America for over a century. LDS units make up about a third (!) of BSA units, and LDS Scouts constitute about a sixth of all Boy Scouts (including Cubs). I expect that LDS funding of the Boy Scouts of America exceeds 17% of the total BSA funding, meaning that we are overrepresented in our financial contributions.

Suddenly, with today's announcement, almost half of LDS Scouts (if you include Cubs -- more like 2/3 if you include only Boy Scouts) will no longer be affiliated through LDS-sponsored YM programs. That is HUGE. Now some part of those young men will continue to be enrolled in the ward Scout troop as they earn merit badges and advance in rank. But how many? Half? A tenth? Whatever the number, it will be fewer than the number today.

So what does this mean going forward? If the Church, which has been with BSA almost since the very beginning, is now pulling out most of their Boy Scouts, that means they've determined they can get by without those Scouting services. And if the LDS Church no longer requires Scouting services for young men 14-18, it's easy enough to surmise that the LDS Church will shortly decide it doesn't really need those services for its 12-13-year-old boys. Or its 11-year-olds. And in the end, they might very likely just decide they don't really even need the Cub program for the senior Primary boys.

To many of us, it looks like the writing is on the wall.

[pam]

1 hour ago, eddified said:

I haven't seen any statement signaling that the church may drop other BSA programs. Citation, please?

Ask the person who wrote the article.  I was only copying and pasting the first 3 paragraphs of the article.

[eddified]

53 minutes ago, Vort said:

And if the LDS Church no longer requires Scouting services for young men 14-18, it's easy enough to surmise that the LDS Church will shortly decide it doesn't really need those services for its 12-13-year-old boys. Or its 11-year-olds. And in the end, they might very likely just decide they don't really even need the Cub program for the senior Primary boys.

"surmise": suppose that something is true without having evidence to confirm it

"very likely": again, sounds like speculation. 

Which is fine. I'm not against surmising and speculating. I agree it is very possible that the church could pull out of BSA entirely. But that's not my point. My point is that the news outlet statement that "The church's Thursday statement alluded in multiple places to working toward programs that could replace Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts", and @pam's linked article's statement that the church has "signaled" something regarding that, are unwarranted. I do not see any such evidence in the church's actual statement. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by eddified
Pam was only quoting the article.

[pam]

1 minute ago, eddified said:

"surmise": suppose that something is true without having evidence to confirm it

"very likely": again, sounds like speculation. 

Which is fine. I'm not against surmising and speculating. I agree it is very possible that the church could pull out of BSA entirely. But that's not my point. My point is that the news outlet statement that "The church's Thursday statement alluded in multiple places to working toward programs that could replace Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts", and @pam's statement that the church has "signaled" something regarding that, are unwarranted. I do not see any such evidence in the church's actual statement. 

Again it was not MY statement.  It was a copy and paste from the article.

[eddified]

Just now, pam said:

Again it was not MY statement.  It was a copy and paste from the article.

Yes I've edited my comment to that effect.

[prisonchaplain]

2 hours ago, yjacket said:

PC and SJWs (and especially Bob Gates) have destroyed that once fine, upstanding moral organization.

It wasn't me...really--it wasn't! 

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

It wasn't me...really--it wasn't! 

I don't know dude. When we all think of @prisonchaplain, the first thing that comes to mind is "Left Wing Social Justice Warrior" 

Edited May 11, 2017 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

So I did a Mr. Spock-version mind meld, to figure out the image that I conjure in @MormonGator.  It looks something like this:

 

So yeah...No Justice...No Peace! 

[Sunday21]

4 hours ago, zil said:

So, what? You got the cockroach badge?

Keith Richards badge?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Keith Richards badge?

Keith Richards is actually supposedly a very, very nice guy in person!  Sort of one of those unlikely rock-star family men.

Edited May 11, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[bytebear]

Growing up LDS, scouting kinda sucked for me.  There was one other kid my age, and since they didn't really mix up the Teachers (14-15yo) and Priests (16-18yo), there wasn't a lot for me to do.   When my older brothers were in scouts, they had an awesome scout master and did everything.  He moved out of the ward when I was 12 so I got zip.  I would prefer the older scouts to be more regional anyway, maybe at the stake level, and mixed with different age groups.  Course the older kids in my ward were also bullies, so maybe not so much.

Edited May 11, 2017 by bytebear

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, bytebear said:

Growing up LDS, scouting kinda sucked for me. 

I bet it was really tough on a lot of boys who just didn't want to join the program but felt pressure from the LDS culture. Sad. 

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I bet it was really tough on a lot of boys who just didn't want to join the program but felt pressure from the LDS culture. Sad. 

Not really a matter of pressure. If you're an active American or Canadian LDS young man, you are registered as a Scout. It's pretty much automatic. Whether and how much you participate is, of course, another matter.

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not really a matter of pressure. If you're an active American or Canadian LDS young man, you are registered as a Scout. It's pretty much automatic. Whether and how much you participate is, of course, another matter.

My point still stands. It's hard on kids who don't have the same interests as everyone else, particularly when that organization is so engrained in the culture they grow up in. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by MormonGator

[Vort]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

My point still stands. It's hard on kids who don't have the same interests as everyone else, particularly when that interest is so engrained in the culture they grow up in. 

This is actually a pretty common problem. It appears to be a large minority of boys who don't like Scouting, not just one or two in a troop. And it seems to be getting much worse with our gamified, video-game-infested, smartphone-toting, always-on culture. Camping seems so anachronistic, so pointless, to many boys and young men. I see this as an ironic reason to keep and emphasize Scouting, or something like it.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is actually a pretty common problem. It appears to be a large minority of boys who don't like Scouting, not just one or two in a troop. And it seems to be getting much worse with our gamified, video-game-infested, smartphone-toting, always-on culture. Camping seems so anachronistic, so pointless, to many boys and young men. I see this as an ironic reason to keep and emphasize Scouting, or something like it.

I'm with the kids who don't like camping. When I was called to do something with the boy scouts in my old ward I told the bishop "I'll do whatever you want as long as it doesn't include camping. I swore an oath in my own blood to never go as an adult after a weekend excursion at age 14." 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is actually a pretty common problem. It appears to be a large minority of boys who don't like Scouting, not just one or two in a troop. And it seems to be getting much worse with our gamified, video-game-infested, smartphone-toting, always-on culture. Camping seems so anachronistic, so pointless, to many boys and young men. I see this as an ironic reason to keep and emphasize Scouting, or something like it.

Hey, to each their own.

They didn't have smartphones when I was a teenager.  However, as a scouting leader, I always liked to sneak an ipod on my camping trips, regardless of whether there were silly rules against technology in place.  Then, when everyone else was asleep, I would slip on my headphones, turn on Bob Dylan's "Copper Kettle", and stare at the stars for hours while listening to songs about rural living.  To me, music is very much part of the camping experience, and I felt like a campout did not live up to its potential if I could not turn on some Americana late at night.

I also fondly remember playing capture the flag.  I don't generally like sports, but I love playing capture the flag and can do so for hours.  I am pretty stealthy, so it was a little like playing metal gear solid, but in real life!

Edited May 12, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I bet it was really tough on a lot of boys who just didn't want to join the program but felt pressure from the LDS culture. Sad. 

It isn't "culture" (though that is a result). It is the "official" activity arm of the Young Men.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Hey, to each their own.

They didn't have smartphones when I was a teenager.  However, as a scouting leader, I always liked to sneak an ipod on my camping trips, regardless of whether there were silly rules against technology in place.  Then, when everyone else was asleep, I would slip on my headphones, turn on Bob Dylan's "Copper Kettle", and stare at the stars for hours while listening to songs about rural living.  To me, music is very much part of the camping experience, and I felt like a campout did not live up to its potential if I could not turn on some Americana late at night.

I also fondly remember playing capture the flag.  I don't generally like sports, but I love playing capture the flag and can do so for hours.  I am pretty stealthy, so it was a little like playing metal gear solid, but in real life!

I was listening to Blonde on Blonde this morning. Good music taste my friend. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I was listening to Blonde on Blonde this morning. Good music taste my friend. 

Don't get me started on Bob Dylan because it will result in a threadjack.

I have every Dylan album with the exception of Shot of Love (1981) and Knocked Out Loaded (1986).  This includes the Bootleg Series.  There was a time from about 2008 until 2010 when Dylan and Neil Young together dominated my ipod.  I have given serious thought to which albums are Dylan's best works (in order: Blonde on Blonde, John Wesley Harding, Bringing It All Back Home, Blood on the Tracks, then Freewheelin' Bob Dylan).

Yeah, I am one of those kinds of Dylan fans.

OK, OK, nothing to see here.  Back on topic. . .

Edited May 12, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Still_Small_Voice]

I am interested to see what new programs the Church has for the Young Men.  I hope a lot of it involves outdoor activities.

[james12]

This looks to me like the beginning of the program: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/multimedia/file/first-presidency-letter-young-men-program-changes-may-2017.pdf. See this also: https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities?lang=eng. I generally like this direction of spiritual, intellectual, physical, and social. I also like some of the suggestions.

[Rob Osborn]

I am a current Scout Master and whereas the news doesnt surprise me on the one hand, on the other hand Im a little baffled. It truly sounds like the waters are parting here but its still unclear just how its gonna part. The feeling I get, and have gotten for the last few months in my calling is that we need to shift the focus from scouting back to the priesthood and do more young mens combined activities and that our mutual activities need to fulfill that role. But, after reading the counsel it almost sounds like the poor deacons are just getting pushed aside, do your scout stuff so that a new focus can come upon all the girl age youth and the 14 and up on the boys side. It just isnt, nor cant work like this.

This change effectively diminishes the scout committee in each ward which is the backbone to making it work. Also, the scouting program can no longer be the activity arm of the priesthood.

Other problems arise like less of a desire for older boys to get their Eagle and now the church is goibg to stress the program of the 14-up as the graduated program that is more suited to the mission of the priesthood of the church and in turn diminishes or relegates scouting to imature boyish stuff.

It would have been better if the church would have just told the truth and said "we are phasing the scouting program out completely and will, with each new year move each age group into their respective new programs". Thats not what they said but its not hard to read between the lines. 

[bytebear]

I didn't mind camping, or scouting in general. I just didn't have friends in my troop/ward.  If I had friends I wanted to hang out with, it would have been different.  But scouting is more than just camping.  It's skill building in a variety of disciplines. And yes, most are useless in our modern era, but they will come in handy in the zombie apocalypse, or Venezuela.