Vegan Celestial, Omnivore Telestial

[clbent04]

3 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

Personally, I really love animals...

Especially medium rare London broil with barbecue sauce.

@Jojo Bags Jojo, you really had to go there?

[clbent04]

1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

The Word of Wisdom essentially defines sparingly as "only eat meat when there's nothing else."

But yet it's not a temple recommend question like coffee and tea. Interesting to think what if it was. Under that definition of "sparingly", very few of us would qualify as card-carrying members 

[Fooslord]

No one has mentioned 1 Timothy chapter 4 where it was prophesied about our day: 

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

To suggest that anyone is more or less worthy of different kingdoms based on their consumption of one food over another is exactly what we are warned about here. 

Also, home refrigeration wasn't common until the early 1900's. Much meat was completely wasted if harvested during the summer months. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

11 hours ago, clbent04 said:

@LiterateParakeet You brought up a good point that brings up another train of thought.  Is there a correlation between being sinful and partaking of substances that cause negative health affects to your body (even if not specifically itemized by the Word of Wisdom)?

To dig a little deeper, do you think our bodies being negatively affected by animal products is a manifestation to us from the Lord that consuming animal products beyond the "sparingly" threshold is displeasing to Him?  Thinking of the Word of Wisdom, doesn't our obedience to not partaking of restricted substances generally save us from not only from breaking a commandment, but also from negative health effects as well?

If you mean, the health issues that are a result of eating animal products (and sugar BTW) are a punishment for not obeying the commandment, then I disagree.  I don't see it that way.  I think the Word of Wisdom is exactly that....wise counsel...saying in essense, "If you want to be healthier, this is what you need to do."  Ignore it at your own peril, not that you will be punished, just that you will experience the logical consequences. God follows natural law, and this is simply part of that.  

If you are interested in the science behind this (animal products cause all sorts of disease) check out www.nutritionfacts.org.  It's full of videos by a doctor, who with his staff, keep up to date on the studies regarding nutrition.  If you scroll down, beneath each video is a list of references to the studies used.  He also has a book, How Not to Die by Michael Greger, M.D.  All the proceeds from the website and the book go to charity, he supports himself from his day job.  

To add to your collection of scriptures on this topic (related to the concept of sparingly)....:  "“Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. … And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.” (JST, Gen. 9:9–11.)"

I think your wife would LOVE this old Ensign article (1972)  https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/the-gospel-and-animals?lang=eng

Edited August 12, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[jewels8]

I don't know why it did italics, but I just didin't think of changing it, but there is meat & meat substitutes, and people can put non meat proteins together to have  a complete protein, the key is to have the right amount, which varies for each person

[anatess2]

On 8/11/2017 at 5:35 PM, clbent04 said:

I'm thinking of a couple scenarios where the only thing available to you to eat would be meat. After some difficulty, I have arrived:

-You somehow get locked inside an Oscar Meyer wiener factory where the only thing edible is hot dogs

-You live on an island undiscovered by anyone else where animal life flourishes yet plant life is non-existent

First world problems.  Expand your horizon more.

In any case, just because you couldn't think of a situation that it would occur, if it DOES occur, you are teaching that you should rather die.  That is what is called False Teaching.

Edited August 14, 2017 by anatess2

[clbent04]

10 hours ago, anatess2 said:

In any case, just because you couldn't think of a situation that it would occur, if it DOES occur, you are teaching that you should rather die.  That is what is called False Teaching.

No one here is hating on your meatloaf special everyone raves about.  And I thought of two perfectly good examples where it could occur.  Trust me, I would be eating those Oscar Meyer wieners no problem

[Suzie]

Hotdogs are considered food???

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

No one here is hating on your meatloaf special everyone raves about.  And I thought of two perfectly good examples where it could occur.  Trust me, I would be eating those Oscar Meyer wieners no problem

It's called embutido.  It's really good.

[clbent04]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:37 AM, LiterateParakeet said:

I think your wife would LOVE this old Ensign article (1972)  https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/the-gospel-and-animals?lang=eng

I shared this with her tonight. Thanks! @LiterateParakeet

Edited August 15, 2017 by clbent04

[Blossom76]

I'm just an investigator so I dont really know what I'm talking about LOL, but when I read D&C 89 I decided to try my best to live it.  I eat a small amount of meat once a week (some weeks not at all) and I try to eat all whole grains where possible (brown stuff not white) I also dont eat chocolate or drink soda anymore (I'm terrified of putting any caffeine in my body), I also gave up sugar because I was addicted to it, I don't know if I'm doing it right but I can tell you, I feel the healthiest I ever have and I've lost about 8 kilograms so I'm pretty happy with the health code put forward by Joseph Smith

[Grunt]

11 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

I'm just an investigator so I dont really know what I'm talking about LOL, but when I read D&C 89 I decided to try my best to live it.  I eat a small amount of meat once a week (some weeks not at all) and I try to eat all whole grains where possible (brown stuff not white) I also dont eat chocolate or drink soda anymore (I'm terrified of putting any caffeine in my body), I also gave up sugar because I was addicted to it, I don't know if I'm doing it right but I can tell you, I feel the healthiest I ever have and I've lost about 8 kilograms so I'm pretty happy with the health code put forward by Joseph Smith

I wonder if the caffeine issue is geographical?  I've seen Mormons here pump energy drinks in Sacrament.

[Jane_Doe]

12 hours ago, Blossom76 said:

I'm just an investigator so I dont really know what I'm talking about LOL, but when I read D&C 89 I decided to try my best to live it.  I eat a small amount of meat once a week (some weeks not at all) and I try to eat all whole grains where possible (brown stuff not white) I also dont eat chocolate or drink soda anymore (I'm terrified of putting any caffeine in my body), I also gave up sugar because I was addicted to it, I don't know if I'm doing it right but I can tell you, I feel the healthiest I ever have and I've lost about 8 kilograms so I'm pretty happy with the health code put forward by Joseph Smith

Hi @Blossom76, welcome to the forum and (more importantly) checking out the LDS faith!

The meat part of the WoW is more subject to interpretation.  I find it to be more of a caution against over-excess eating of meat.  Yes, you need some protein, but don't have steak every night.  

There's no part of the WoW against chocolate, soda, or caffeine.  However, if you find that they are especially no good for you and hence avoid them, I mega-applaud your self-awareness and stewardship.  Also, way to go on the weight loss!

Edited October 29, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[Blossom76]

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Hi @Blossom76, welcome to the forum and (more importantly) checking out the LDS faith!

The meat part of the WoW is more subject to interpretation.  I find it to be more of a caution against over-excess eating of meat.  Yes, you need some protein, but don't have steak every night.  

There's no part of the WoW against chocolate, soda, or caffeine.  However, if you find that they are especially no good for you and hence avoid them, I mega-applaud your self-awareness and stewardship.  Also, way to go on the weight loss!

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.  I guess I just assumed caffeine was a no go because of coffee and tea.  Learn something new every day I guess.  I do find sugar addictive so I'm glad I gave that up  

[laronius]

4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Hi @Blossom76, welcome to the forum and (more importantly) checking out the LDS faith!

The meat part of the WoW is more subject to interpretation.  I find it to be more of a caution against over-excess eating of meat.  Yes, you need some protein, but don't have steak every night.  

There's no part of the WoW against chocolate, soda, or caffeine.  However, if you find that they are especially no good for you and hence avoid them, I mega-applaud your self-awareness and stewardship.  Also, way to go on the weight loss!

I think sometimes we pigeon hole the Lord by restricting the WoW to only those things the Lord has specifically addressed. But really the WoW, in spirit, means don't do anything to your body that harms it. Our bodies are temples and what we do to our physical bodies will have spiritual ramifications. At the beginning of D&C 89 the Lord states that what this revelation contains is what he expects of the weakest of those among us. In my opinion he expects more from those of us who are stronger in the gospel. There is no need to expressly point out what this is because those who are stronger in the gospel will be able to learn it by the Spirit. But sometimes we are fearful of what the Lord might reveal because then we become responsible for that knowledge.

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, Blossom76 said:

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.  I guess I just assumed caffeine was a no go because of coffee and tea.  Learn something new every day I guess.  I do find sugar addictive so I'm glad I gave that up  

Coffee and Tea are not restricted because they have caffeine...  Coffee and Tea are restricted because God said so.

Now lots of members try to answer why God restricted Coffee and Tea (and the other things) and they come up with a bunch of guesses.  Caffeine is one of the common guesses that Mormon Culture has embraced to various degree, however there are flaws to this idea.  For example Decaffeinated Coffee is against the Word of Wisdom and chocolate is not.

That being said the Word of Wisdom has a large area for "Judgment and Wisdom"  for us personally. And many make personal choices on things like Caffeine and Sugar and that is perfectly acceptable... Right up to the point that you try to compel someone else to accept your person judgement

[laronius]

1 hour ago, Blossom76 said:

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.  I guess I just assumed caffeine was a no go because of coffee and tea.  Learn something new every day I guess.  I do find sugar addictive so I'm glad I gave that up  

There are other things in coffee and tea that make them unhealthy but at the end of the day stimulants like caffeine are basically an attempt to cover up the deficiency of the needed nutrients we aren't feeding our bodies or the sleep we are not getting (though there are practical medical uses for caffeine). I think if we started to focus more of our attention on the "do's" of the WoW we would find much less need to worry about the "don'ts."

[Traveler]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:57 AM, clbent04 said:

Do you think the Lord will judge us based on how much meat we consume in this life?  Or how many animals died at the expense of our nourishment? "Eat meat sparingly"?  What is sparingly?  1 out of 10 meals? 

I interpret this as eat meat as little as possible. 

I give the following breakdown using the glories of the Kingdoms of Heaven merely for illustration purposes in how I rank the righteousness of each class, not to say I believe these are the kingdoms you'll end up in based on your eating lifestyle

Vegan = Celestial

Vegetarian = Terrestrial

Omnivore = Telestial

Carnivore = Outer Darkness

After all, the Lord gave man dominion over the Earth and it's inhabitants (all the animals) so that God could test us with how we would exercise that dominion 

Agree/disagree?

 

I believe that sparingly means – without waste.  I also believe that overeating is wasteful – weather or not meat is involved. 

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:37 AM, LiterateParakeet said:

If you mean, the health issues that are a result of eating animal products (and sugar BTW) are a punishment for not obeying the commandment, then I disagree.  I don't see it that way.  I think the Word of Wisdom is exactly that....wise counsel...saying in essense, "If you want to be healthier, this is what you need to do."  Ignore it at your own peril, not that you will be punished, just that you will experience the logical consequences. God follows natural law, and this is simply part of that.  

If you are interested in the science behind this (animal products cause all sorts of disease) check out www.nutritionfacts.org.  It's full of videos by a doctor, who with his staff, keep up to date on the studies regarding nutrition.  If you scroll down, beneath each video is a list of references to the studies used.  He also has a book, How Not to Die by Michael Greger, M.D.  All the proceeds from the website and the book go to charity, he supports himself from his day job.  

To add to your collection of scriptures on this topic (related to the concept of sparingly)....:  "“Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. … And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.” (JST, Gen. 9:9–11.)"

I think your wife would LOVE this old Ensign article (1972)  https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/the-gospel-and-animals?lang=eng

I believe all things that G-d reveals to man are mostly (99.99%) for spiritual benefit. 

 

The Traveler

[jewels8]

The Bible indeed seems to use the term "meat"  for food at times.  The Savior ate fish and a honeycomb after his resurrection.  In looking at the Word of Wisdom in the Doctrine in Covenants, they are talking about it being ok to eat actual meat, the flesh of beasts.  So there is a difference depending where you look.  Also, I do not know exactly what we will be eating in the next life, probably won't need to eat at all, but I'm sure it would be enjoyable to eat sometimes.  And if we end up with no meat, I sure hope they have some good substitutes.

[Rob Osborn]

We will definitely need to eat in the next life. There is still an energy exchange that needs to take place.

[dahlia]

I don't know if eating meat will keep you out of the Celestial kingdom (good idea, tho), but I do think that if we have not trained ourselves to be compassionate toward all of God's creatures, man and animal, then getting into the Celestial kingdom might be difficult. Some of the remarks I see from omnivores on veg*n sites are beyond rude. If you want to eat meat, go and eat it. There's no need to say truly barbaric things about what you would do to an animal as a way of getting your meat-eating point across. 

[Sunday21]

If meat overconsumption was a serious problem, we would hear about it in General Conference. We don’t hear about it in GC so it not a big deal.