My Bishop took my temple recommend away unfairly. How can I contest his decision?

[omegaseamaster75]

12 minutes ago, Grunt said:

As a follow question, can you lose your temple recommend for smacking around someone having an emotional affair with your wife?

Your wife or the guy?

If the guy I'd take my chances and repent later if needed.

[askandanswer]

4 hours ago, JayKi said:

No we are only friend I have only friendship feeling toward her. I did nothing wrong and neither did she. Is not fair just because she is a woman we can't be friend. 

What is more important to you - her friendship with you or the quality of the relationship between her and her husband? it seems to me as if the relationship between you and her might be adversely impacting on the quality of the relationship between her and her husband and if that is the case, this would point to the conclusion that there is an element of selfishness that is motivating your behaviour, ie, you are acting on what is good for you rather than what is good for her. I think it might be time to stop and reconsider things.

[Grunt]

5 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Your wife or the guy?

If the guy I'd take my chances and repent later if needed.

I've pushed a woman once in my life.  First grade.  She kicked my butt and sent me home crying and my father tanned my hide for pushing a girl.  

[zil]

@mordorbund, thank you!

I was beginning to feel sad that no one got / appreciated it.

[askandanswer]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

One knee or two?  Hint: I ain't doing two.

Three

[askandanswer]

2 hours ago, JayKi said:

 It should be for my friend to decide what is best, the same way you did. I don't want to hurt her by telling her I can't be her friend anymore. I am not being prideful I have no pride on this matter, I only want to be a good friend we go back a long way. 

 

Sometimes the manly thing to do is to step up and save someone from themselves. If she can't make the correct choice to say no to you then you need to be a man and step up and say no to her. You, she, her husband and your fiancee will all be better off if you do. Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves.

[askandanswer]

2 hours ago, zil said:

I'm offended that you think @Vort was being judgemental!

Clearly you don't know @Vort very well (just kidding)

[lostinwater]

29 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Possibly, but I would worry more about the spouse filing an aggravated assault charge.

Good advice!

Last i heard, temple attendance was quite low among those residing in state and federal prisons.   

[askandanswer]

3 hours ago, JayKi said:

 

I just be her friend because it is hard to adjust to new culture but when we hang out we can interact like we are at home. I have no desire to ruin her marriage I want her to be happy. She don't have many friend in England. I think her husband doesn't want her to be my friend because he want to isolate her and control her. I don't believe he worries we will have an affair because he knows it is platonic. He only has problem that she isn't doing whatever he says. I don't message her all the time only when she message me and we only hang out once a week to catch up it is all. It is a pure friendship and no one can convince me that showing love and kindness to my friend is wrong. 

I think that when you are living in England, dealing with a (presumably) English Bishop and English Stake President, and an English husband, you would do well to a) follow the prevailing cultural norms, and b) expect those cultural norms to apply to yourself.

[Lee]

@JayKi I think you are a good friend and have been a support for her. Personally, if I was her husband I wouldn't have a problem with the friendship if it made my wife happy. My wife has male friends from College and I couldn't care less, sometimes they go out together and she texts me "going out for dinner after work, I will be home by 9", I ask her no questions because I am secure in my marriage. However, it appears that your friend's husband is insecure about your friendship and I think you have to respect his stance. I do agree with you that your friend should be the one to end the friendship. Although, if you love her as you say, you should do what is best for her and that is to scale your friendship back. 

 

A couple of questions: 

1) Is her husbands objection to your friendship a new thing? if so what has triggered it? Is it simply the text message?

2) How long were you friends before she got married?

 

I believe that your friendship is purely platonic and I believe married/single men and married/single women can just be friends, especially as you say she is like a sister to you. However, I think it is worth you stepping back even if it goes against your "morals", it feels like you may have to do this to marry your fiancee in the temple anyway.  

[Grunt]

51 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Possibly, but I would worry more about the spouse filing an aggravated assault charge.

 

Only if you aren't convincing enough.

[JayKi]

36 minutes ago, Lee said:

A couple of questions: 

1) Is her husbands objection to your friendship a new thing? if so what has triggered it? Is it simply the text message?

2) How long were you friends before she got married?

2) We were friends before she even met her husband, I have known her for 2 years so 18 months before she got married. 

1) He used to be fine with it because he understood we are close and have lots in common to do. I told him he has to treat his wife better because he wouldn't let for her to visit her family at Christmas and she was really sad. Then he started to dislike me so I stay away from him to not have argument. I am getting married in July and I invite my friend and her husband to come, he said they can't go but my friend she wanted to go so she can also see family, so her husband told her if she can buy tickets for her she can go. But he was being unfair because she doesn't have a job since being married so I asked my fiancee can we buy my friend a ticket to Costa Rica and a return from Nicaragua, my fiancee said it is good to do that. And I told my friend she can stay with my family for the wedding then go to Nicaragua. Her husband he was mad at me for buying her tickets and told me I should stay out of their agreements. I told him I just helping her and he should want her to be happy. Then that is when he spoke to the bishop. He just want to sabotage my wedding because I help his wife to visit her family. But I don't think he complain about other thing, the bishop only mention to me the text. 

47 minutes ago, Lee said:

I believe that your friendship is purely platonic and I believe married/single men and married/single women can just be friends, especially as you say she is like a sister to you. However, I think it is worth you stepping back even if it goes against your "morals", it feels like you may have to do this to marry your fiancee in the temple anyway.  

If I step back I may hurt her and I don't want that.   

[JayKi]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

As a follow question, can you lose your temple recommend for smacking around someone having an emotional affair with your wife?

There is no such thing as emotional affair she love her husband she just likes to hang out with me. There is only platonic love and caring we have for each other. 

[NeuroTypical]

Again, JayKi, you've asked your questions, we've answered them and given opinions, you're rejecting our answers and opinions.  

So what else can we do for you?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

Three

What are you? An Elephant?

[NeedleinA]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

One knee or two?  Hint: I ain't doing two.

Hint: Carb doesn't need knees - he is 'The Man'

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Hint: Carb doesn't need knees - he is 'The Man'

I thought "the (Ip) Man" was Donnie Yen.  (See what I did there?)

Anyone who can train Bruce Lee, hold his own against Xander Cage, and be one very convincing Force sensitive gets my vote.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Guest

[mgridle]

1 hour ago, JayKi said:

2) We were friends before she even met her husband, I have known her for 2 years so 18 months before she got married. 

1) He used to be fine with it because he understood we are close and have lots in common to do. I told him he has to treat his wife better because he wouldn't let for her to visit her family at Christmas and she was really sad. Then he started to dislike me so I stay away from him to not have argument. I am getting married in July and I invite my friend and her husband to come, he said they can't go but my friend she wanted to go so she can also see family, so her husband told her if she can buy tickets for her she can go. But he was being unfair because she doesn't have a job since being married so I asked my fiancee can we buy my friend a ticket to Costa Rica and a return from Nicaragua, my fiancee said it is good to do that. And I told my friend she can stay with my family for the wedding then go to Nicaragua. Her husband he was mad at me for buying her tickets and told me I should stay out of their agreements. I told him I just helping her and he should want her to be happy. Then that is when he spoke to the bishop. He just want to sabotage my wedding because I help his wife to visit her family. But I don't think he complain about other thing, the bishop only mention to me the text. 

If I step back I may hurt her and I don't want that.   

Dude, you need to back off this other man's wife.  You do not have a long friendship with here, you have only known her for 2 years (known since gradeschool might be one thing, but two years, that's nothing).

She has been married for 6 months and you are telling her husband that he needs to treat her better b/c he won't buy a plane ticket for her to travel from England to Nicaragua or Costa Rica??? Excuse me, but when did you get the right to tell another man that he isn't treating his wife well when he doesn't buy a plane ticket for his wife to travel (with or without him) half-way around the world.  Plane tickets are not cheap, probably at least 1k round trip. 

Of course the husband is going to be mad at you for buying HIS wife a ticket to go to YOUR wedding without HIM!!!

You claim this relationship is platonic, dude it clearly is not-you need to step back and smell the coffee.  Let's recap all the ways and why it's NOT platonic.

" Genesis 2:24: “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

The Holy Bible explicitly states that our relationship with our spouse should be above all else EXCEPT our relationship to God. Yet you have stated multiple times that you:

a) don't care what the husband thinks.

b) only this "friend" can tell you if you not be this close

c) you take another man's wife out at least once a week to do things like shopping, hanging out, etc.

d) you pay for another man's wife to travel to your country to see your "wedding"

e) you pay for another man's wife to travel to see her family.

f) you are upset that this man is not pleased with your relationship with HIS wife.

g) You have set this relationship with this woman ABOVE your own temple recommend-i.e. your own salvation.

h) Obviously you don't care about your OWN temple wedding-i.e. you are more concerned about your "friendship" than obtaining a temple recommend to be sealed to YOUR spouse.

i) You claim it's purely platonic.

j) You claim he is trying to sabotage YOUR wedding b/c his is upset that you are paying for HIS wife to attend.  You know there is a simple solution for you boundless generosity. Why don't you just pay for both HIM and HER to attend, a vacation gift. If you have such a platonic relationship with this other man's wife, then surely you wouldn't mind paying for HIS ticket also?

Dude-there is a real good reason the Bishop took your recommend, you ARE right now having an emotional affair with another man's wife. I don't care if you don't "kiss" romantically, I don't care if you haven't done the "deed", I don't care if lie to yourself and claim it is purely platonic. Your ACTIONS demonstrate that you are having an emotional affair with a married woman.

Quite frankly, either you're lying to yourself about this, or you are so emotionally immature in human relationships that you have 0 clue as to what you are actually doing.

Seriously, what normal person thinks it's totally okay to pay for another man's wife to travel half-way across the world-what is the difference between that and paying for a diamond necklace for another man's wife?

This "friend" of yours has been married only 6 months and you are causing major, major problems in their marriage, if you were a hot chick-you'd be called a homewrecker.  The fact the Bishop took away your recommend should be a real big warning sign to you.

You're not a long-time friend, you're not family, you're not blood-back the heck out dude NOW before you really cause some serious damage.

......

If I had to guess, my guess is that you feel slighted that she choose this other guy over you, maybe you never made the move and were put into the "friend zone" and she got tired of waiting for you to do something, this other guy came in swooped her up and now you claim it's "platonic" b/c you regret not ever making the move. 

I don't know . . .but what I do know is that there is no way, no how that a man will buy a woman a plane ticket to fly half-way across the world to visit her family just b/c he's a good "friend".  Not gonna happen.  Stop lying to yourself about how emotionally invested you are in her (that's why it's called an emotional affair).

Edited April 25, 2018 by mgridle

[JayKi]

20 minutes ago, mgridle said:

If I had to guess, my guess is that you feel slighted that she choose this other guy over you, maybe you never made the move and were put into the "friend zone" and she got tired of waiting for you to do something, this other guy came in swooped her up and now you claim it's "platonic" b/c you regret not ever making the move. 

 

Please if I wanted her to be my wife she would be my wife. When I first met her I already was dedicated to my girlfriend I was waiting for her to return from her mission to propose, I never looked at another woman. 

 

22 minutes ago, mgridle said:

She has been married for 6 months and you are telling her husband that he needs to treat her better b/c he won't buy a plane ticket for her to travel from England to Nicaragua or Costa Rica??? Excuse me, but when did you get the right to tell another man that he isn't treating his wife well when he doesn't buy a plane ticket for his wife to travel (with or without him) half-way around the world.  Plane tickets are not cheap, probably at least 1k round trip. 

 

I may have overreacted saying to him to treat her better but I was upset because she was sad. 

 

23 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Of course the husband is going to be mad at you for buying HIS wife a ticket to go to YOUR wedding without HIM!!!

 

It was him who said she can go if she can pay for the ticket, he was fine her going without him. 

 

24 minutes ago, mgridle said:

h) Obviously you don't care about your OWN temple wedding-i.e. you are more concerned about your "friendship" than obtaining a temple recommend to be sealed to YOUR spouse.

 

No I care more about my wedding, it is the principle of why my recommend was taken away that I disagree with. 

 

26 minutes ago, mgridle said:

e) you pay for another man's wife to travel to see her family.

 

it is what you do for people you love to make them happy. 

 

26 minutes ago, mgridle said:

I don't know . . .but what I do know is that there is no way, no how that a man will buy a woman a plane ticket to fly half-way across the world to visit her family just b/c he's a good "friend".  Not gonna happen.  Stop lying to yourself about how emotionally invested you are in her (that's why it's called an emotional affair).

I am emotionally invested in her of course I am we are close friends. 

 

28 minutes ago, mgridle said:

This "friend" of yours has been married only 6 months and you are causing major, major problems in their marriage, if you were a hot chick-you'd be called a homewrecker.  The fact the Bishop took away your recommend should be a real big warning sign to you.

 

I do not see any valid reason why he took it away, my friend got to keep hers. If it a problem with our friendship then we both lose it. 

[JayKi]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Again, JayKi, you've asked your questions, we've answered them and given opinions, you're rejecting our answers and opinions.  

So what else can we do for you?

I did not reject but I was not convinced that I should ditch my friend. I been accused of ruining her marriage, having an affair, being selfish, being proud and not honouring my priesthood. Is a lot of judgement for no reason. It upset me but actually no one thinks the text I sent was bad or missing church a little bit was bad enough to lose my recommend. So really I see that everyone agree with me so it helped me to realise I have a good case with the Stake President. 

[NeedleinA]

7 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Please if I wanted her to be my wife she would be my wife.

[Just_A_Guy]

It’s unfortunate that she’s in a position where she has to “choose” between her husband and her friend; but it’s also deeply problematic when one expects—nay, demands—that a married person will pick friendship over spouse.  

And no, it’s not normal to spend thousands of dollars on a married woman; even for air travel for her to see her family.  And what’s even odder about this is that you are a student with (presumably) no independent income of your own.  Add the fact that you’ve known her for two years and were engaged to someone else the whole time; and we’re sort of crossing into bizarro-land.

Assuming that there really is a sincere difference in cultures going on here:  why are you presuming your cultural values should prevail?  She chose to marry an Anglo, and to make her home in Anglo society.  

[Grunt]

8 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I did not reject but I was not convinced that I should ditch my friend. I been accused of ruining her marriage, having an affair, being selfish, being proud and not honouring my priesthood. Is a lot of judgement for no reason. It upset me but actually no one thinks the text I sent was bad or missing church a little bit was bad enough to lose my recommend. So really I see that everyone agree with me so it helped me to realise I have a good case with the Stake President. 

I don't think anyone said "ditch your friend".  I'm saying the relationship you have with your friend in its current state is very inappropriate.  So here's the deal, as blunt as I can put it.  I have no idea why your temple recommend was pulled.  Maybe it was legitimate, maybe it wasn't.  However, based on what you've said and displayed here you appear extremely prideful and are having an inappropriate relationship with a married woman.  

What's worse, out of ALL the advice you've been given in this thread, your ONE take-away is "I'm right, the Stake President will likely see my side".  You lack humility and refuse to see the that you are most likely the issue here.  Even if you aren't, you have an incredible amount of self-examination to do.  Please take it to prayer.  Talk to your Bishop.  

[mgridle]

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Please if I wanted her to be my wife she would be my wife. When I first met her I already was dedicated to my girlfriend I was waiting for her to return from her mission to propose, I never looked at another woman.

Nope,  she would NEVER be your wife.  No woman who EVER marry a man she calls "El Nino". "dedicated to your girlfriend" means nothing.  The fact that you so brazenly stated, "if I wanted her to be my wife-she would be" means you are clearly delusional in your own status.

7 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I may have overreacted saying to him to treat her better but I was upset because she was sad. 

No, there wasn't any "may have". You did overreact-period.  And you never apologized to his woman's husband either.  You have consistently said in this forum, you don't care what he thinks, you have absolutely 0 respect for him and the ONLY people who have that type of a caviler attitude towards the spouse of a friend is one who is JEALOUS, i.e. he has something you don't have and could never have and you are JEALOUS of him. 

In NO normal friendship does one have 0 respect for the spouse of a friend.  Again, you are either lying to yourself or completely immature in human relationships.

11 minutes ago, JayKi said:

It was him who said she can go if she can pay for the ticket, he was fine her going without him. 

Again, you are either lying to yourself or being ignorant. Saying she can go if she can pay is VASTLY different than having a male friend (who she regularly "hangs out with") pay for that ticket. Again, if you don't see the difference you are in for a world of pain in the future.

13 minutes ago, JayKi said:

No I care more about my wedding, it is the principle of why my recommend was taken away that I disagree with. 

No you don't- you seem to care more about WHO is attending your wedding vs. your actual wedding. Paying for another man's wife to fly half-way across the world to see you get married is not appropriate-you have only known her for 2 years!  I don't know maybe you want to show off to this other woman, look at me, look at me, see I'm normal I can pay for you to visit your family, look at the money I have . . .oh too bad you should have married me instead of that slouch who can't even pay for you to see your family, look at how mean, how much of a bad husband he is . . . but look at me.  I'm so great (if I had wanted to I could have married you!).

18 minutes ago, JayKi said:

it is what you do for people you love to make them happy.

I am emotionally invested in her of course I am we are close friends.

Yes, that is exactly my point, you do love her, it is not platonic, you ARE emotionally invested in her, and you ARE having an emotional affair. Thank you for stating that, now we can dispense with all the excuses you are giving that it's just "platonic".

19 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I do not see any valid reason why he took it away, my friend got to keep hers. If it a problem with our friendship then we both lose it. 

Well you have yet to actually tell us what you texted her.  No it's not "if it is a problem", it already IS a problem- you are just in complete denial about it. You've made a claim that "you didn't know" that the text was flirtacious, that you're not the one to blame.  You don't get to play the victim here-you are responsible for your own actions, you have already admitted you love her, you already admitted you are emotionally invested in her, you have already admitted that "if you wanted her as your wife you would have" (clearly delusional about this idea)-you are the one who wants to pay for her to fly across the world without her husband. 

I know this breaks your heart, but YOU ARE NOT MARRIED TO HER. LET HER GO.

This is what the Bishop is trying to tell you, but you are being stubborn, obtuse, and victim playing.  If you continue down this path, nothing good will come of it.

[JayKi]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It’s unfortunate that she’s in a position where she has to “choose” between her husband and her friend; but it’s also deeply problematic when one expects—nay, demands—that a married person will pick friendship over spouse.  

And no, it’s not normal to spend thousands of dollars on a married woman; even for air travel for her to see her family.  And what’s even odder about this is that you are a student with (presumably) no independent income of your own.  Add the fact that you’ve known her for two years and were engaged to someone else the whole time; and we’re sort of crossing into bizarro-land.

Assuming that there really is a sincere difference in cultures going on here:  why are you presuming your cultural values should prevail?  She chose to marry an Anglo, and to make her home in Anglo society.  

I don't demand she choose me it is up to her, I respect her decision whatever it is. 

 

I get paid to study and I have a part time job, plus my uncle and aunt give me money. Anyway my fiancee and I paid for the tickets together. I do not know why it is so uncommon to help your friends in the USA/England, back home it is natural if someone needs help and you can help then you help. 

 

I don't think that culture prevail, but just because she marry an English man doesn't mean she lose her culture.