Trump and the Nicene Creed

[unixknight]

So apparently we're supposed to be up in arms, both liberal and conservative, because the President didn't recite the Nicene Creed at George Bush's funeral.

Am I the only one who just. does. not. care?  

I wouldn't have recited it either.  Some of the statements in the Creed do not conform with what I believe as a member of the LDS Church.  In my view, to recite a creed you don't believe in, even for ceremonial purposes, is just lying. 

Maybe that's why the President didn't.  Or maybe he was just being rude.  Either way, I just can't work up any outrage over this.  Frankly, if I had to pick something to be annoyed about, it's that the Clintons' tongues didn't burst into flames when they DID recite it.

So maybe none of them believe in the Creed.  So what?  At least Trump was being honest.

I dunno.  I'm tired. 

[Midwest LDS]

No you're not alone. I really don't care either. The funeral was about President George H. W. Bush and his life. I found it annoying to see all these analysts talking about Trump. The ceremony wasn't about him.

[zil]

I can think of a whole slew of people who, based on their professed values, ought to be thrilled that the president didn't do this.  So, unless it's the Christian militants who are upset, why, exactly is anyone upset?

• Atheists
• separation of church and state folk
• folks in favor of religious freedom
• folks in favor of freedom from religion
• liberal "don't cram your religion down my throat" folks
• Hipsters Against Hypocrisy (HAH)
• whoever I've left out

[Jane_Doe]

People get outraged because people do.

I don't really care what idiot Trump did.  

As to the bigger picture of reciting a creed at a funeral: in general any religious things/says in a funeral should reflect the beliefs of the deceased and/or their families.  Being respectful here is a big deal for me.  

[SilentOne]

Maybe he doesn't know the Nicene Creed. Pretty hard to recite something you don't have memorized. If it was written out somewhere, he could read it, but that's not the same as reciting. Same for a call-and-repeat type thing.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by SilentOne

[SilentOne]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

As to the bigger picture of reciting a creed at a funeral: in general any religious things/says in a funeral should reflect the beliefs of the deceased and/or their families.  Being respectful here is a big deal for me.

2

If there were a lot of people at a funeral and I wasn't supposed to either 1) lead the people in saying something or 2) recite it alone, I doubt anybody not part of my party would even notice I wasn't saying it. I don't see it as being disrespectful so long as I'm sitting or standing respectfully and not calling attention to myself.

[Maureen]

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

So apparently we're supposed to be up in arms, both liberal and conservative, because the President didn't recite the Nicene Creed at George Bush's funeral....

From what I read it was the Apostles Creed but either way, I too am wondering why it matters that he should need to recite it.

M.

[Just_A_Guy]

I’ve read that even Ivanka recited it—and she doesn’t even consider herself a Christian!

So much insistence on keeping up appearances, from all sides. I find the whole thing mildly amusing.  

[clbent04]

6 hours ago, unixknight said:

Am I the only one who just. does. not. care? 

Best way to not care is to not acknowledge it in the first place.

[unixknight]

9 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Best way to not care is to not acknowledge it in the first place.

Agreed.  It isn't the event itself that motivated me to write the post.  It's the chatter from my left AND my right telling me I should.

Must have just been a slow news day.

[Guest MormonGator]

48 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Must have just been a slow news day.

Bing! Bing! Bing! 

The media doesn't understand why Christians support Trump because of his personal life, so any story revolving around Trump and religion they'll blow totally out of proportion  

[unixknight]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Bing! Bing! Bing! 

The media doesn't understand why Christians support Trump because of his personal life, so any story revolving around Trump and religion they'll blow totally out of proportion  

Agreed, though I'd add to that they're trying to turn Trump's base away from him with this nonsense.  I'm pretty sure nobody who voted for Trump did so with the expectation that he'd be some kind of paragon of Christianity in the first place.

Edited December 7, 2018 by unixknight

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’ve read that even Ivanka recited it—and she doesn’t even consider herself a Christian!

So much insistence on keeping up appearances, from all sides. I find the whole thing mildly amusing.  

It's that Bucket woman!!

[Colirio]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

It's that Bucket woman!!

It's pronounced "Bou-quet"..... 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Colirio

[NeuroTypical]

4+ hours in, here's what has everyone upset:

 

I'm having a hard time giving a crap about this one.

[unixknight]

I think the overwhelming majority of people are utterly apathetic on this one.  The issue for me is the screamers who are trying to turn it into yet another crisis.  At this point what baffles me is how anyone can still have any faith at all in the news media when it's so comically obvious they'll do absolutely anything to try and vilify the President... Meanwhile there's a completely self-righteous group of fainters on the right who have managed to somehow get this far and still be surprised when he doesn't conform.

[mrmarklin]

On 12/6/2018 at 1:31 PM, unixknight said:

So apparently we're supposed to be up in arms, both liberal and conservative, because the President didn't recite the Nicene Creed at George Bush's funeral.

Am I the only one who just. does. not. care?  

I wouldn't have recited it either.  Some of the statements in the Creed do not conform with what I believe as a member of the LDS Church.  In my view, to recite a creed you don't believe in, even for ceremonial purposes, is just lying. 

Maybe that's why the President didn't.  Or maybe he was just being rude.  Either way, I just can't work up any outrage over this.  Frankly, if I had to pick something to be annoyed about, it's that the Clintons' tongues didn't burst into flames when they DID recite it.

So maybe none of them believe in the Creed.  So what?  At least Trump was being honest.

I dunno.  I'm tired. 

I think it was the Apostles creed. FWIW I don’t know it either. 

[Guest]

Why does it matter?  One of the lines is "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church" or something like that.  I wouldn't recite that.

Bush was a Methodist.  Why would He repeat that?  Why do any Christians other than Catholics repeat that?

Edited December 9, 2018 by Guest

[unixknight]

13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Why does it matter?  One of the lines is "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church" or something like that.  I wouldn't recite that.

Bush was a Methodist.  Why would He repeat that?  Why do any Christians other than Catholics repeat that?

In the case of the Nicene Creed (and the Apostles' Creed for that matter) the word 'catholic' is meant in the lowercase 'c' sense... meaning that the Church is one united body of believers.  It was meant to include both the big 'C' Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox and whatever other divisions existed at that time.

[The Folk Prophet]

Shall we just point out JS-History 1:19, that "all their creeds were an abomination in [God's] sight;"?

Personally, I'm not reciting something that's an abomination in God's sight, no way, no how.

[Maureen]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Why does it matter?  One of the lines is "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church" or something like that.  I wouldn't recite that...

It is catholic church with a small "c", which means universal church not Roman or Eastern Orthodox. Lutherans recites the Apostles Creed and we say "I believe in the...holy catholic Church...".

M.

[The Folk Prophet]

10 minutes ago, Maureen said:

It is catholic church with a small "c", which means universal church

I don't believe in the universal church.

[Grunt]

I don't care about Trump or the Nicene Creed.  This is a non-issue for me.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, unixknight said:

In the case of the Nicene Creed (and the Apostles' Creed for that matter) the word 'catholic' is meant in the lowercase 'c' sense... meaning that the Church is one united body of believers.  It was meant to include both the big 'C' Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox and whatever other divisions existed at that time.

That may be an excuse for sectarians.  But not for us.

And the truth is, they don't believe in any such union.  Hence, sectarians.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Guest

[Maureen]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't believe in the universal church.

Whether you believe in it or not, that is what is meant in the creed.

M.