BSA Considering Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

[Just_A_Guy]

Wall Street Journal has it behind a paywall, but summary via the Washington Examiner is at https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/boy-scouts-weighs-bankruptcy

 

I feel bad for the local units and leadership, but as for the central leadership:  this couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch of amoral worms.  

[NeuroTypical]

I'm looking forward to April Conference, when I figure we'll hear all about our new youth programs.

[Fether]

41 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm looking forward to April Conference, when I figure we'll hear all about our new youth programs.

Man Scouts

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Fether said:

53 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm looking forward to April Conference, when I figure we'll hear all about our new youth programs.

Man Scouts

Sons of Helaman/Daughters of Zion Program.

[The Folk Prophet]

27 minutes ago, Fether said:

Man Scouts

No. Just:

Men!

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

No. Just:

Men!

YOUNG men.

[boxer]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Wall Street Journal has it behind a paywall, but summary via the Washington Examiner is at https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/boy-scouts-weighs-bankruptcy

 

I feel bad for the local units and leadership, but as for the central leadership:  this couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch of amoral worms.  

Good riddance to bad rubbish. I've heard one of the reasons the split did not occur quicker is b/c the Church and BSA had a lot of financial entanglements and it would take a while to actually sort it out . . .mainly for things out west-whether that is true-who knows.

[Just_A_Guy]

21 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

No. Just:

Men!

No-BS Association, or “NoBSA” for short.  Members known as no-bull men.

But in the interim, LDS scouters may consider awarding themselves a second Robert M. Gates White Feather.  We’ve surely earned it.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

No-BS Association, or “NoBSA” for short.  Members known as no-bull men.

But in the interim, LDS scouters may consider awarding themselves a second Robert M. Gates White Feather.  We’ve surely earned it.  

To obtain that wouldn't you have to have registered the award with the Scout office that it was actually earned by the individual?

Our advancement chair tells us that they can get a replacement rank award if it is on record that the boy earned it, but if it is not on record they cannot get it unless we have proof that the boy earned the award in the first place (normally the pink slip on an advancement form if it isn't easily found on Scoutbook).

[Just_A_Guy]

46 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

To obtain that wouldn't you have to have registered the award with the Scout office that it was actually earned by the individual?

Our advancement chair tells us that they can get a replacement rank award if it is on record that the boy earned it, but if it is not on record they cannot get it unless we have proof that the boy earned the award in the first place (normally the pink slip on an advancement form if it isn't easily found on Scoutbook).

If you’re talking about the “Robert Gates White Feather” as a concept—read the link.

If you’re talking about the silver palm pin—depends on your council, I suppose; but I know two council offices in Utah that never check.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[JohnsonJones]

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

If you’re talking about the “Robert Gates White Feather” as a concept—read the link.

If you’re talking about the silver palm pin—depends on your council, I suppose; but I know two council offices in Utah that never check.

I did, that's why I referred to it.  In the posting on the other link it indicates picking up Eagle Silver Palms, but wearing them on a different location on the uniform to indicate this white feather concept.  It is correct that these are in every BSA store, but, at least in our area from my experience with other Ranks and picking them up, cannot just be picked up by anyone to put on their uniform.  Even with the excuse that it is not for rank, but an accouterment, they would still need evidence that the individual actually earned it in the first place.

Edited December 14, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

I did, that's why I referred to it.  In the posting on the other link it indicates picking up Eagle Silver Palms, but wearing them on a different location on the uniform to indicate this white feather concept.  It is correct that these are in every BSA store, but, at least in our area from my experience with other Ranks and picking them up, cannot just be picked up by anyone to put on their uniform.  Even with the excuse that it is not for rank, but an accouterment, they would still need evidence that the individual actually earned it in the first place.

Fair point *if* one isn’t otherwise entitled to have the palm and *if* the local scout store actually checks (as I said, I know at least two that don’t).  

I confess, I particularly like the subversive element of using BSA’s own insignia against it; but a search of the interwebs suggest a number of suitable alternatives can be obtained from alternative sources as well.  

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 12/12/2018 at 5:16 PM, Carborendum said:

Sons of Helaman/Daughters of Zion Program.

I'm sorry but those are terrible names.

President Nelson has already named it: "The Youth Battalion of the Lord." Perhaps not the title of the new program next year, but it seems likely.

https://www.lds.org/youth/article/president-and-sister-nelsons-devotional-for-youth-a-call-to-enlist-and-gather-israel?lang=eng

[Jane_Doe]

I am curious as to how much of this bankruptcy is due to lack of income/membership (from LDS and general decline) vs lawsuits.  I know that WSJ and other news outlets point to lawsuits, but suspect bias there because those are the more flashy headline grabbers.  

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I am curious as to how much of this bankruptcy is due to lack of income/membership (from LDS and general decline) vs lawsuits.  I know that WSJ and other news outlets point to lawsuits, but suspect bias there because those are the more flashy headline grabbers.  

A lot of things come into play when an organization declares bankruptcy. The LDS church leaving didn't help of course, though I think sexual assault lawsuits were far more damaging to the BSA. 

[Just_A_Guy]

From what I gather on the Scouting forums, there’s a lot of feeling that BSA financially overextended themselves with their purchase and development of the Summit-Bechtel Scouting Reserve.  Some have also pointed out that when you have a slough of pending lawsuits each with a potential multi-million dollar payout, making future budget projections gets really tricky really fast. Others have posited that since councils are technically independent legal entities that hold title to the camps in their jurisdictions, the national BSA itself actually controls relatively few assets and it wouldn’t take much to push it into insolvency.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

A lot of things come into play when an organization declares bankruptcy. The LDS church leaving didn't help of course, though I think sexual assault lawsuits were far more damaging to the BSA. 

29 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

From what I gather on the Scouting forums, there’s a lot of feeling that BSA financially overextended themselves with their purchase and development of the Summit-Bechtel Scouting Reserve.  Some have also pointed out that when you have a slough of pending lawsuits each with a potential multi-million dollar payout, making future budget projections gets really tricky really fast. Others have posited that since councils are technically independent legal entities that hold title to the camps in their jurisdictions, the national BSA itself actually controls relatively few assets and it wouldn’t take much to push it into insolvency.

Doesn't it seem odd that an organization which is actually so financially unstable, has not had lawsuits like this earlier?  Many of these suits are for things that have allegedly occurred in the 70s.  That's a very long time ago.  Even more ancient than the Kavanaugh accusations.  Yet, no lawsuits of this size?  Or am I missing something?

[unixknight]

I was actually thinking of putting my son (6) into Cub Scouts in the interim until the Church program got up and running.  Thing is, dues are something like $95, for a year.  With the Church program gearing up very soon, I doubt my son would even be a Cub Scout for that long at this point, so now I'm thinking it'd be better to just wait.

[JohnsonJones]

5 hours ago, unixknight said:

I was actually thinking of putting my son (6) into Cub Scouts in the interim until the Church program got up and running.  Thing is, dues are something like $95, for a year.  With the Church program gearing up very soon, I doubt my son would even be a Cub Scout for that long at this point, so now I'm thinking it'd be better to just wait.

Really.

I think our ward pays $35 per boy we register.  I'd have to check again with the Clerk but I thought it was something to that amount.  Is it higher for Non-LDS units?

[unixknight]

6 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Really.

I think our ward pays $35 per boy we register.  I'd have to check again with the Clerk but I thought it was something to that amount.  Is it higher for Non-LDS units?

Could be, or maybe this particular unit supplies things we'd otherwise have been expected to buy on our own, like the shirt, patches, etc.

[JohnsonJones]

13 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Could be, or maybe this particular unit supplies things we'd otherwise have been expected to buy on our own, like the shirt, patches, etc.

We do give the young men (and Cub Scouts) a budget to buy things or help with campouts.  Typically they need to do a fund raiser or get others to help pay for part of Scout Camp though as that exceeds the amount of money we can give them and still have some left over for other organizations.  Patches and other things come from this fund.  We have an account at the Scout office and they send us a bill so that we pay it off.  Sometimes that bill exceeds what we've budgeted and I have at times "contributed" or "donated" to the funds in order to ensure the church pays it's fair share.

[mordorbund]

9 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

From what I gather on the Scouting forums, there’s a lot of feeling that BSA financially overextended themselves with their purchase and development of the Summit-Bechtel Scouting Reserve.  

I remember that. In order to camp there, you have to

• have at least 2 boys
• who talk to each other
• about something other than girls.

[The Folk Prophet]

16 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I remember that. In order to camp there, you have to

• have at least 2 boys
• who talk to each other
• about something other than girls.

I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

Edited December 15, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[mikbone]

Bankruptcy and the Scout Law

Woops

[Vort]

On 12/15/2018 at 6:16 PM, mikbone said:

Bankruptcy and the Scout Law

Woops

A Cub Scout reciting the (Boy) Scout Law? Impressive.