Sports on Sundays in person. Is it okay.

[anonymousmember]

I am a fan of car racing and a church member. I have the oppuronity to attend a Nascar cup series race in Las Vegas. I will probably leave my home and head out there on friday night. I will probably go to the saturday xfinity series race, which is basically like the almost top level of car racing in the US. However, the cup series race, the big 400 mile race at the speedway with all the stars like Kyle Busch and Chase Elliot is on sunday. I do not have cable and have attended saturday races before at Auto Club Speedway. I will probably miss church if I go to the sunday race and I wonder how appropriate is would be to attend the race, even if do not spend any money on conccessions, buy tickets ahead of time and buy souvenirs on Saturday,, I have no cable so I have not watched a race on Sunday in a while but I wonder if attending it in person is just going too far, too unspiritual on the lords day.

[laronius]

Your desire to observe the Sabbath Day is commendable. But ultimately how you observe it is between you and the Lord. 

Having said that I think you already recognize that attending the event isn't the optimal way of observing the Sabbath. But if you do decide to go I would highly recommend finding ways to honor the Sabbath to whatever degree you can.

[zil2]

Welcome to ThirdHour, @anonymousmember!  To answer your question, I will tell you a story.  I hope you don't mind.

When I was RS President (around 2016), I had to choose the lesson for one Sunday and felt inspired to teach about the sabbath day.  My knee-jerk reaction was, "how can I fill 50 minutes with a discussion about the sabbath?"  (The topic seemed pretty "cut and dried" to me.)  As I pondered this, I decided to start in the topical guide.  This turned out to be a good decision.

I studied every entry under Sabbath, Sabbatical Year, BD Sabbath (I think I started here), and BD Sabbath day's journey.  As I read, I made brief notes on what the entry taught me (not a summary of what it said, but what it taught me).  I then organized these notes into categories.  I then reorganized the notes.  I ended up with 8 categories¹ of things I learned about the sabbath!  And finally, I made a clean copy of the notes onto an 11" x 17" sheet of paper.  In preparation for my lesson, I made another full (letter-size) sheet of notes.  And all that after thinking I'd have a hard time coming up with enough material for one lesson - I now have enough for half a dozen lessons.

Quote

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

"keep" suggests it's already holy - ponder how it got that way, what it means to be holy, and only then can you figure out how to keep it that way.  I recommend the Bible Dictionary entry for Holiness, and the Topical Guide entry for Holy, Holier, Holiest.

If you don't feel that's enough, the Gospel Topics entry for Sabbath Day will give you lots of additional links (to manuals, magazines, General Conference talks, etc.), but personally, I'd be surprised if they add anything to the above (other than examples and inspiring stories, or modern re-wording).

In short, the word of God can teach you a surprising amount about the sabbath, and taking the time and making the effort to study it out will embed those lessons in your heart and start you on the road to better sabbath observance.

Hope it helps!

¹Those catagories are:

• Meaning
• Covenant/Sign
• Attitude
• Blessings
• Importance
• Lessons from the Sabbatical Year
• How to Keep
• Violation Leads to Destruction
• (extra in my lesson notes) Prepare for the Sabbath (hint: the Lord spent 6 days preparing for the first sabbath)

[mikbone]

You do you.  I watched Super Bowl XX in New Orleans back in 1986.  I remember the Bears beat the Patriots.  

If you really want to go, I would certainly not do any research into Eli Herring pictured below.  And would absolutely not watch the linked BYUI talk by Clayton Christensen “Decisions for which I have been Grateful”

I assume that you are torn by this decision or you wouldn’t have posed this question on a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint forum…

If you are looking to clear your conscience for something you want to do but know you shouldn’t, you should have asked this question on a different website.

 

 

https://video.byui.edu/media/Clayton+M.+Christensen+"Decisions+For+Which+I've+Been+Grateful"/0_tdb0a80p

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by mikbone

[Traveler]

20 hours ago, anonymousmember said:

I am a fan of car racing and a church member. I have the oppuronity to attend a Nascar cup series race in Las Vegas. I will probably leave my home and head out there on friday night. I will probably go to the saturday xfinity series race, which is basically like the almost top level of car racing in the US. However, the cup series race, the big 400 mile race at the speedway with all the stars like Kyle Busch and Chase Elliot is on sunday. I do not have cable and have attended saturday races before at Auto Club Speedway. I will probably miss church if I go to the sunday race and I wonder how appropriate is would be to attend the race, even if do not spend any money on conccessions, buy tickets ahead of time and buy souvenirs on Saturday,, I have no cable so I have not watched a race on Sunday in a while but I wonder if attending it in person is just going too far, too unspiritual on the lords day.

Hebrews chapter 4 is an interesting scripture that connects the Sabbath as a day of rest with the rest of G-d in the resurrection.  I have mediated on this subject, and I am convinced that the manner in which we maintain our Sabbath day covenant worship is a type and shadow of our resurrection in eternity.  What this means is that the Sabbath day is a time in this life in which we exercise and practice what we intend to do for eternity. 

If you want your primary purpose of eternity to attend Auto Club Speedways – than such is a most appropriate activity to be included in you Sabbath Covenant.   It is my understanding that we have agency whereby we may exercise our faith in that which we desire most – especially for what we desire as expressed in our Sabbath Covenant.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

9 hours ago, laronius said:

Your desire to observe the Sabbath Day is commendable. But ultimately how you observe it is between you and the Lord.

To this true statement, I add this caveat: That a thing is between you and the Lord does not mean that there is no single right answer, but that the answer is something you must find in spiritual conversation between you and the Lord.

[laronius]

26 minutes ago, Vort said:

To this true statement, I add this caveat: That a thing is between you and the Lord does not mean that there is no single right answer, but that the answer is something you must find in spiritual conversation between you and the Lord.

To your true statement I would also add a caveat (sort of). Because we are judged according to our understanding of His word the Lord is at times willing to look past sub-optimal observance of His laws, such that what is deemed mercifully "acceptable" at one point in our progression may be unacceptable later on. But you are completely correct in that it is observance of the law according to God's understanding that is the one true way and the point we need to ultimately arrive at. And there is no playing stupid in God's kingdom.

[mirkwood]

There was also this guy (among others in the sports world.) 

 

So yeah, you do you and discuss decisions with the Lord.

 

[Carborendum]

When I was growing up, our family had several clear rules about observing the Sabbath.

1. No working or engaging in business/commerce (this would include attending a professional sporting event).
2. No shopping.
3. No swimming.
4. No playing sports.

You might notice that we didn't really have rules about what to do.  Only what we would NOT do.  The only "to do" was to attend church.  Well, duh.

This brings up many criticisms like:

• What's the difference between attending a sporting event in person vs watching it on TV.
• What's the difference between swimming vs any other exercise?
• What's the difference between playing sports and playing a video game?  (yes, we were allowed to play video games).

The answer is simple:  I don't know and I don't care.  The fact is that we were at least conscientious about observing the Sabbath.  We set is aside as a separate day.  There had to be SOMEthing that made it substantively different for us.  And our family chose these things as both our effort to remind us that there was this thing called the Sabbath, and that we had some behaviors we were doing to get away from all the junk that the world throws at us all the time.

There is a very nice family in our ward who seems very active, and all that.  But one day they invited my son to visit on a Sunday.  We found out later that he went swimming at their house.

I was not mad at anyone.  They apparently had different rules for the Sabbath than we did.  My son at least pretended to not know about our rules.  But of all my kids, he's the only one that tends to lie.  So, we said he could never go back to their house again on Sundays.

We're not in charge of telling them what Sabbath observance means.  That's their job to determine for their family, just as it is our job to determine for our family.

But at @Vort indcated, this is not free license to do whatever you do and don't want to do on Sundays.  It is for your family to prayerfully determine how to best keep the Sabbath in your own family. 

The Lord's caveat is: The Sabbath was made for YOUR benefit (spiritually and physically).  It is not made to engage in wild abandon.

[laronius]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

You do you.  I watched Super Bowl XX in New Orleans back in 1986.  I remember the Bears beat the Patriots.  

If you really want to go, I would certainly not do any research into Eli Herring pictured below.  And would absolutely not watch the linked BYUI talk by Clayton Christensen “Decisions for which I have been Grateful”

I assume that you are torn by this decision or you wouldn’t have posed this question on a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint forum…

If you are looking to clear your conscience for something you want to do but know you shouldn’t, you should have asked this question on a different website.

 

 

https://video.byui.edu/media/Clayton+M.+Christensen+"Decisions+For+Which+I've+Been+Grateful"/0_tdb0a80p

 

This does make for an interesting contrast when considering his experience to someone like Steve Young's. A person may say that Steve has remained a faithful member and been a great ambassador for the Church and they may be completely right. But the principle of opportunity costs is alive and well in the gospel. And while it is impossible to know what Steve Young's life would have been like I think it is completely fair to say that some blessings have been forfeited along the way as he played in the NFL. And I don't mean to point a finger at him, we all have forfeited some blessings at times because of the choices we make.

[Vort]

14 minutes ago, laronius said:

And there is no playing stupid in God's kingdom.

My wife just reminded me of this anecdote:

When our youngest was maybe four, we knew that he had almost learned what it meant to refrain from telling people what their Christmas presents were when he told one of his brothers, "You're getting sewing machine underwear for Christmas!", thus preserving the secret that the brother was actually getting race car underwear.

[laronius]

5 minutes ago, Vort said:

My wife just reminded me of this anecdote:

When our youngest was maybe four, we knew that he had almost learned what it meant to refrain from telling people what their Christmas presents were when he told one of his brothers, "You're getting sewing machine underwear for Christmas!", thus preserving the secret that the brother was actually getting race car underwear.

He clearly had not reached the age of accountability but it makes me wonder: if we sin but do a poor job of it is God more likely to grant mercy? 🤔😄

[mikbone]

11 minutes ago, laronius said:

And I don't mean to point a finger at him, we all have forfeited some blessings at times because of the choices we make.

There are many LDS that are professional athletes and play on Sunday.  I really like Tony Finau.  Olympic athletes too.

Photo from last Sunday.  I watched him play on Sat.

I take community call and fix emergent fractures on Sundays occasionally.  I try to stay out of the hospital on the weekends if at all possible.

Eli Herring specifically states that he does not judge any LDS athletes that play on Sunday.

Its a personal preference between each person and their God.

I personally couldn’t recommend that any Saint go watch a sporting event on Sunday.  Although I have done so in the past.

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Its a personal preference between each person and their God.

I would quibble with the wording. It's far more than a mere preference, like chocolate ice cream vs. strawberry. It's a covenant obligation to keep the Sabbath day holy. We should be actively investigating what that means and striving to fulfill that duty. Refusing to level judgment against another because of his choices in the matter is honorable and good. Refusing to make any distinctions and simply go with personal preference for Sabbath day activities is not honorable or good.

[Carborendum]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

I would quibble with the wording. It's far more than a mere preference, like chocolate ice cream vs. strawberry. It's a covenant obligation to keep the Sabbath day holy. We should be actively investigating what that means and striving to fulfill that duty. Refusing to level judgment against another because of his choices in the matter is honorable and good. Refusing to make any distinctions and simply go with personal preference for Sabbath day activities is not honorable or good.

I think the best way to look at this might be that it is a special type of covenant.  Usually, God sets the conditions and we accept those conditions.

Instead, He gives us a principle and a very general commandment (Keep the Sabbath Holy).  But He allows us to set the conditions of observance.  That in and of itself is rare.

But the other half is that the Lord promises us something. What is His promise?  Has anyone actually formalized this to consider what He gives us in return. And does that exchange seem reasonable?

It is far too easy to basically say "I'm going to church on Sundays.  That's how I keep the Sabbath.  So, the Lord is going to bless me with peace all week long because I went to Church for 2 hours a week."  Some will believe this.  I do not. 

Let God judge.  In the end, it is up to Him to determine if He will observe His end of the deal that man may suppose is expected.

[mirkwood]

Eli's decision was personal, not one made by the church for him.

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

There was also this guy (among others in the sports world.) 

 

So yeah, you do you and discuss decisions with the Lord.

 

Highly ironic that the background was for a cigarette company. 

[zil2]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Instead, He gives us a principle and a very general commandment (Keep the Sabbath Holy).  But He allows us to set the conditions of observance.  That in and of itself is rare.

Erm.  If you stop at Exodus 20, that might be true.  But there's whopping tons more in scripture about the sabbath than what's in Exodus 20.

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But the other half is that the Lord promises us something. What is His promise?  Has anyone actually formalized this to consider what He gives us in return.

This too is in scripture.

[Carborendum]

32 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Erm.  If you stop at Exodus 20, that might be true.  But there's whopping tons more in scripture about the sabbath than what's in Exodus 20.

This too is in scripture.

Where were you when I needed you?

I have read a lot of those scriptures.  But I guess I never really pondered it much.  I think it is because I've been doing ok so far.  I just never questioned it.  I never realized it was specified as it is in scripture.

Hmpf.  Then I guess we shouldn't be watching sporting events on Sunday (live or on TV)...  and a whole bunch more.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Carborendum

[zil2]

19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Where were you when I needed you?

I have read a lot of those scriptures.  But I guess I never really pondered it much.  I think it is because I've been doing ok so far.  I just never questioned it.  I never realized it was specified as it is in scripture.

Hmpf.  Then I guess we shouldn't be watching sporting events on Sunday (live or on TV)...  and a whole bunch more.

We each have our own timeline for our progress - perhaps this is your time to study the sabbath (and that wasn't)...  If you like, I could scan my 11" x 17" page and post it, or PM it to you, but honestly, I think you'll be much better off doing exactly what I did - studying every verse, in as short a timeframe as possible, and noting what each teaches you.

[Carborendum]

5 minutes ago, zil2 said:

We each have our own timeline for our progress - perhaps this is your time to study the sabbath (and that wasn't)...  If you like, I could scan my 11" x 17" page and post it, or PM it to you, but honestly, I think you'll be much better off doing exactly what I did - studying every verse, in as short a timeframe as possible, and noting what each teaches you.

I think I'm good now.  I just did a download of all the scriptures including "sabbath".  And I also read about five GC talks on the topic.  Again, I knew a lot of them.  But I was just not thinking about them in the right way.

Isn't it interesting that we can read scriptures and even understand them, but then never really get the "significance" until it is in the right context?

[zil2]

29 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I think it is because I've been doing ok so far.  I just never questioned it.

This was my whole life until the end of 2020 (beginning of the end of the trial of my life), and then I started questioning (not as in doubting) everything - why do I do what I do, how should I do it, what did I miss, can I do better, etc. - it's making a big difference.

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Isn't it interesting that we can read scriptures and even understand them, but then never really get the "significance" until it is in the right context?

Yes, though in some ways, it seems tragic, but I guess it might be mercy, too.

[pam]

Eric Weddle who played pro football most of his career with the San Diego Chargers, made it a point to at least attend Sacrament meeting when at home and on the road during football season whenever he could.  He found it made him a better person and a better player.  

[mrmarklin]

This sort of thing is why there is repentance.😉