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  1. 3 points
    I don’t know Fox, and haven’t seen the videos by or against him. I’ve read a synopsis of his arguments, and was frankly thunderstruck that a man of his credentials and background would cite to so many relatively-easily-discernible falsehoods in furtherance of his position. IIRC, Fox’s broadside first sought to establish his own credentials by citing to his background at BYU and his past work under the auspices of the First Presidency. I will leave it for others to argue over whether he’s setting himself up as some sort of “prophet”; but it does seem quite clear that he wanted this to be distributed widely and he wanted it to be associated with both BYU and the Church. In that context it would seem odd for him or his supporters to insist that any pushback should only be offered in private.
  2. 2 points
    Carborendum

    Biden Corruption Emails

    I've only got time for a quick response on this. Forgive me for being incomplete. First, I'll admit this is the most difficult to see from the liberal perspective because you have to look past the rhetoric to see the substance. I'll give just one example and I gotta go. The Paris Climate Accords. It was supposed to be this monumental step towards saving the planet. But if you look at the numbers, you realize that it did NOTHING to reduce global emissions. It only served to shift emissions from the US to other nations like China. And they haven't done a thing to abide by their limits. Then Trump gets us out. Ever since we abandoned that agreement, the US emissions have gone down significantly. How can that be? The Accords guaranteed success. The reason is that the details of what was actually agreed upon indicates no real substantive change. It was only symbolic so satisfy the green mob. It didn't do anything. But by freeing American industry and incentivising them to be more efficient, they found ways to be more efficient. And greater efficiency means greater waste. And it also means less energy to produce the same product. Less energy means less emissions. Later.
  3. 2 points
    Here is an excellent deconstruction of Frank Fox's hit piece on Trump, done in devastating style and yet without personally attacking Fox, even where he probably deserved it. https://khadlock9697.medium.com/on-nevertrump-and-gaslighting-an-open-letter-to-frank-w-3190ffce656c
  4. 2 points
    I agree with you about the need to “go into the wilderness” as much as possible—though of course, in a physical sense, I’m not sure there’s really anywhere left to go. If we can rely on the prophecies that have come down from Brigham Young, Heber Kimball, Wilford Woodruff, and the like—our lot (or those of our children or grandchildren) will be to buckle down and stay away from the violence as best we can, avoiding alliances with any of the Babylonish factions that will be turning on each other and ultimately destroying themselves. But as for the “lesser of two evils”, I would reply as follows: 1) Our current commission is that “honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil. And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.” (D&C 98:10-11) That instruction has not been revoked. To throw our lot in with Trump, knowing what he is, to me risks forfeiting the commission and blessings promised on American citizens in these latter days, and amounts to us choosing to have God leave us to our own strength. I understand why, in light of everything that’s happening on the left, many Saints feel they have no choice but to ally with Trump. But I also believe that there is divine precedent for God promising deliverance to His people if they would just trust Him and avoid running to the nearest strongman (this theme consumes the book of Isaiah). If God wants us to disregard D&C 98:10 and quietly submit ourselves to (and even support) leaders who are dishonest, foolish, and bad; then I’m reasonably confident that we’ll be hearing about it through proper channels. But so far, that hasn’t happened. 2) The Bible is, as you suggest, a record of a wholly different society than our own; one where private citizens could not and did not expect to significantly influence public policy. Jeremiah’s pro-Babylon agenda was not geared towards Judah’s populace, or even its rulers, helping Babylon to advance its interests or geopolitical standing; it was simply a pragmatic “look, if you fight this, you will die; so don’t fight it”. (See Jeremiah 27.) Nonresistance to a tyrant we didn’t choose, is very different than active support of a degenerate politician we did choose. 3) One issue with likening Trump to Nebuchadnezzar in this particular discussion (which, as I understand it, is the preservation of a western-style, individual-rights-oriented democratic republic as advocated by President Benson) is that Nebuchadnezzar was a *king* who oversaw high taxation, imprisonment without due process, and state-sanctioned murder and rape and prohibition of religious expression. Daniel and his friends lived out their lives as slaves (very comfortable slaves, but slaves nonetheless) to Nebuchadnezzar and his successors. Indeed, Nebuchadnezzar is the embodiment of everything Benson abhorred. If we’re at the point where we feel like, for the sake of self-preservation, God wants us to submit to someone like Nebuchadnezzar in order to prevent a worse thing from happening; then it’s probably time for us to admit that the American experiment has failed, resign ourselves to serfdom, and leave it to future generations to reclaim the traditional American liberties that we grew up with.
  5. 1 point
    I suspect that most of those non-LDS who might cooperate with LDS, due to revelations that the church's doctrines (such as on pre/post mortal existence) are true would consider themselves Charismatics, rather than Pentecostals. It's s subtle nuance, but probably important. Both speak in tongues, but most Pentecostals belong to denominations (like my Assemblies of God one) and trace their roots to the revivals of the early 1900s. They tend to be more conservative theologically and in how they live out holiness standards. They are more cautious with dreams, visions, and prophetic words. These are accepted, but only after being vetted by scripture. Further, most Pentecostals treat gifts of the Spirit as primarily intended for a local congregation or community, not for national or international application. Charismatics, on the other hand, are much more open to broadly applying and embracing prophetic words, dreams and visions. Additionally, they are quicker to embrace doctrinal innovation. Most tie their roots to the Holy Spirit renewal movements of the 1960s, and many are either non-denominational, or belong to mainline (Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.) churches.
  6. 1 point
    NeedleinA

    Biden Corruption Emails

    Did Biden secure permanent funding for the National Parks Service when he was office? Um, nope he did not. Trump did. He passed the Great American Outdoors Act to restore our national parks. Directly off the National Parks Service website: To some, Trump is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't - there is always something even further to complain about because when it comes down to it - it really isn't the issues they have a problem with. Leads me to believe that little to no real thinking or digging is taking place outside of what the MSM is feeding people. People can assert Trump/conservatives snub their noses at the EPA or NPS, however, their own websites refute those claims.
  7. 1 point
    FYI: I'm not referring to Trump or Biden by this particular post just a story that comes to mind. I'm reminded of Thomas L. Kane (Kanesville, Iowa & Kanesville Tabernacle): Origin of Winter Quarters: A great example of a non-member who was moved upon by the Lord to accomplish his goals. Do I believe the Lord still moves upon imperfect govt. and military leaders to accomplish his goals - yes I do. Hey, there are no perfect ones to choose from anyways 😉
  8. 1 point
    From the Church Newsroom - What is Religious Freedom? I suppose that means the opposite it true. As religious freedom goes down so does: prosperity, harmony and stability. Food for thought as we look around at ourselves and others.
  9. 1 point
    Then perhaps this is my fault, for which I apologize. I thought most Latter-day Saints had heard of the Fox brouhaha. I thought Fox was way off-base in his attacks and in his actions, dragging religion into a political screed against Trump. I was not familiar with Darin Southam's vicious rebuttal. I'm not completely without sympathy for Southam's position, but it seems to me that he crossed a line as much as Fox did. And if Fox did it first, that doesn't justify Southam. My point is not to condemn either man. My original point was to decry Fox's actions as foolish and unwise, and a sign that even highly educated Latter-day Saints who you would think should know better still fall into the trap of accepting the wider "Orange Man Bad" meme. I didn't mean for it to become an attack on Dr. Fox's character.
  10. 1 point
    Darin Southam's fully fledged attack is reprehensible. You don't publicly attack people about such private matters.. I don't know if the allegations against Fox are true—Southam himself admits the "excommunication" charge was false, yet he still includes it in his discussion—but the attempted character assassination is completely over the top. Brother Fox can reasonably be called out for false statements, irresponsible allegations, misleading claims about his position in the Church and/or acquaintance with various leaders, politicizing a religious discussion, wrongly injecting religion into a political discussion, or a whole host of other things. That's all reasonable and fair game. But insinuating that Brother Fox is a bad Mormon is simply beyond the pale. This is so, even if the allegations are true. Some things are sacred, and you don't approach them unless it's absolutely vital and you have both proof of malfeasance and the responsibility to make the clarification. As far as I can tell, Brother Southam provides only hearsay with no real evidence to back up his slander, and doesn't even claim any responsibility or authority to do this exposè. It seems mean-spirited and wholly beyond the pale—again, even if it's all true. This is not a random internet troll getting skewered. It's a publicly named man, someone well-known in the (rather large) BYU community. Literally hundreds of thousands of current and former BYU students know who Frank Fox is. I concede that Fox has made himself an easy target by his unwise actions. To some extent, he has brought criticism on himself. But we are brothers in Christ and fellow Saints. This shouldn't happen. Just because he makes himself a target doesn't mean we should feel free to take potshots.
  11. 1 point
    Vort

    Virtual Sacrament Meeting

    Hate to tell you this, but Gavin Newsom is as big an idiot as Jay Inslee. And since he runs a state more than five times larger, he'll do more than five times the damage.
  12. 1 point
    21st October 2020 -- NewsMax Pope Francis endorsed same-sex civil unions for the first time as pontiff while being interviewed for the feature-length documentary “Francesco,” which premiered Wednesday at the Rome Film Festival. The papal thumbs-up came midway through the film that delves into issues Francis cares about most, including the environment, poverty, migration, racial and income inequality, and the people most affected by discrimination. “Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Francis said in one of his sit-down interviews for the film. “You can't kick someone out of a family, nor make their life miserable for this. What we have to have is a civil union law; that way they are legally covered.” While serving as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Francis endorsed civil unions for gay couples as an alternative to same-sex marriages. However, he had never come out publicly in favor of civil unions as pope. Read more at: https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/pope-endorses-civil-unions/2020/10/21/id/993033/?ns_mail_uid=69e4d782-37c1-493c-a8c5-39210a828688&ns_mail_job=DM155018_10212020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010502n7tlrd
  13. 1 point
    When Frank Fox, former BYU professor, talks about what a miserable, evil, awful human being Donald Trump is and how he (Fox) is proudly voting for Joe Biden, I have to wonder about the cognitive faculties of many of my more educated fellow Saints. Joe Biden as a defender of faith and integrity? No one can seriously believe that.
  14. 1 point
    person0

    HINDSIGHT: A Story of Faith and Family

    Some members of this forum already know that between January 2015 - July 2019, my wife and I fostered and eventually came to adopt seven children. My amazing wife, in addition to the never ending task of being a mother of seven, made time to dedicate herself to writing a book in order to share her side of our story with the world. I am eternally grateful and proud of my awe-inspiring wife. I love her and my children with all my heart. Our story is nothing short of miraculous and we will ever be grateful for the trials and blessings God has placed in our path. Here is a link to the book, and a picture of my amazing family. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KZ23NKM
  15. 1 point
    It's a tough thing as a parent to see it. For myself, I deal with being high risk but also risking getting the virus daily via the university. It's a wierd mix there where we have many of the students that have chosen to take classes via an online university program this year (which I also have to utilize in trying to educate students in that fashion for our department) while at the same time having a few on campus as well. In that way, I figure I am already exposed somewhat, though I'd feel a LOT more comfortable (at least while weather has still been nice) if they would be doing meetings outside rather than inside (they have singing, which was shown as a key way to spread the virus). We've had an uptick of cases in our area recently as well. I hope I do not get it. I wear a mask, I try to social distance (and there are many at the ward that want to shake hands and such), but it is a personal risk. Thus far, (as I said, I hope and pray I do not get it, we have had at least one ward member that possibly got it at church as it was the only place they were going...die recently from Covid) I have been blessed and hope to stay that way, but it is MY choice to do so. My ward also has other options (thus far) if I choose to take them at a later time (for example, think it is too risky to go to the ward meetings with the spike in Covid cases)...but it is MY choice currently. One that I am grateful is available and that I am allowed to make. However, as a Father, I have other feelings. I understand my daughter's reasons for wanting to avoid going to church currently. As a parent, I want to go off to Utah and wring her Bishop's neck (not very Christlike of me, which is a sin). NO ONE should have that type of power and the ability to hurt others in such a way as I understand it (at least as it was portrayed by my daughter, but I will admit that is a one sided view as I have only heard her and her husband's side of the story). I know our ward still has zoom for their meetings for those who choose not to attend, and have extended the invitation that they can view our zoom meetings if they wish (I'm not sure on the legality in the church on that, though I know anyone can go to any meeting, they technically are not in our ward or ward boundaries...and thus the Bishop could not authorize them to take the sacrament currently). I'm not sure how or if that will help. She was incredibly frustrated. As a parent, I feel...so helpless. If anything, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hope and pray that the prophet will help those in her situation. As a parent, I feel very unchristlike towards her ward leadership (mine is great thus far) the more I think about it, but I know that's not the proper way to think or do things. However, without some greater authority to help my daughter and people in her situation right now, I don't know where help will come or what can be done. As I said, nothing stinks so much as being a parent and seeing your child in a situation which you can't help and feeling absolutely helpless.
  16. 1 point
    Just sharing my experience-- My non-LDS husband is extremely diabetic which puts him in the high risk category. This is private health information that he does NOT like sharing with random ward members. He finds it very invasive. We've both stayed home pretty strictly -- like avoiding even being in a room with more than 10 masked people. I only make a weekly trip to the mask-mandated grocery store and Sunday "at home" church with another family in our ward who's equally cautious / at-risk. That weekly joint mini-church has been great for both of our families spiritually and fellowship-wise. If we had been able to just email the bishop "hey, we're high risk" and get simple permission to stay home, that would have been one thing. But that wasn't good enough. He said no and then tried to guilt us into things. We had to go through this entire ordeal of discussing private health information, educating on what is high risk (he didn't know diabetic was such), explaining that no I don't do sports or any other activities, appeal to the stake president etc. I was furious and isolated. My friends were also angry, felt completely disfellowshipped, and like they were going to have their temple recommends revoked for this. It was extremely tremotolous, and felt very unneeded. And I wonder what would have happened if I hadn't appealed and feel for those whom were likewise put in a horrible spot but didn't have my bluntness. Again, as i said earlier, I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Not the church of Bishop Jones, and while I think he blundered with this, I too am a blunderer.
  17. 1 point
    Here is my opinion “Never do anything that could lead to sexual transgression. Treat others with respect, not as objects used to satisfy lustful and selfish desires. Before marriage, do not participate in passionate kissing” - For the Strength of Youth “The For the Strength of Youth pamphlet contains standards that, when followed carefully, will bring rich blessings and help us stay on the covenant path. Although it was written for the benefit of the youth, its standards do not expire when we leave the Young Men and Young Women programs. They apply to each of us all the time. A review of these standards may prompt other ways we can be more careful in our gospel living.” - Becky Craven, General Conference 2019
  18. 1 point
    Following a suggestion from @anatess2, my family actually joined up with up with another family for mini church ~3 months ago. That worked out great for everyone involved: good lessons, fellowship, and at least some formality. They and we both have some high risk people and a similar level of precaution about things. Hence I have not been to at-chapel church since the world went crazy. My ward did start meeting together in-person 2-3 months ago... and it's just a "no go" for us on so many levels. Recently, the bishop actually tried to force everyone to come back via revoking permission to have at home-church and lots of guilt trips, including for families whom are high risk. Needless to say that didn't go over well. However, after a saga he did step down and once again grant permission for us to say home. That's my story as of today. I am much more attached to the spirt of things rather than traditional mechanics (especially when traditional mechanics aren't the mechanics actually being used).
  19. 0 points
    Vort

    Virtual Sacrament Meeting

    Horrifying. @mirkwood's Halloween outfit.
  20. 0 points
    Endorsing sex-same unions implies endorsing same-sex behaviors IMO - unless he qualifies it with 'but must remain celibate'.