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I see the alien invasion that is a huge disregard for immigration law as a symptom of the great rot within this nation. This along with the out of control money spending and the many wicked secret combinations that infest the Federal government in the United States. A nation without borders will cease to be a nation in the future. In my belief part of America will be preserved in the future but not this whole nation. Too many in the United States have rejected God and turn to wicked pleasure or other idols as their gods.

I know a little something about seeing with "spiritual eyes", not from myself but from an intimate acquaintance whom, on this topic, I consider an unimpeachable source. Such "spiritual sight" is imagined to be some dreamlike state, but it is the opposite. It's as if all your senses are working at top efficiency and your mind comprehends completely what you are seeing, hearing, and experiencing. It is not a uniformly positive experience; my acquaintance was terrified by some of the particulars. I do not expect anyone to read such a vague description by some anonymous internet guy and say, "Oh, wow! I'd better change my life, because this guy's acquaintance had some experience or other that was never described to me but that sounds like it might have been amazing!" My point is not to persuade with stunning details; even if I felt good about sharing such intimate and sacred things openly, I doubt they would convince anyone who did not already believe. Rather, my point is to claim that the idea of seeing with "spiritual eyes" is widely misunderstood and misused. The experience is rather the opposite of what some would have you believe.

There was some talk about someone saying that Martin "only" saw the plates and the angel with his "spiritual eyes." Then they went on to explain that "spiritual eyes" were basically an imagined vision. This is a lie. As far as I know, some people may have used such language (and we do as well, sometimes). But it was by no means universal. When Latter-day Saints refer to "spiritual eyes" we mean that the power of God would not allow a mortal to see divine things and live. To be able to behold His glory, we need to undergo a transfiguration (like what happened to the apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration with the Savior). When we are transfigured, our bodies are different -- strengthened -- to be able to withstand the glory of God. But the experience is no less real. If anything, it is MORE real. A perfect example is Nephi's vision and the account of Moses in the Pearl of Great price. This manner of language has been an LDS belief ever since the beginning.

Vort, thank you for a most interesting thread, and for sharing your insights. Like most LDS people my experiences with fasting have varied over time. It seemed hard as a child, but I always felt a strong Spirit on Fast Sunday and enjoyed hearing people bear their testimonies and collecting Fast Offerings. As a teenager it didn't feel like it was that hard to fast, but sometimes I would get some wicked headaches. After I graduated high school there was a church musical called "It's A Miracle" that was performing at the Seattle Center and I invited a non-member friend to attend. I really wanted this person to feel the Spirit so I decided to fast for 2 days, no food or water. It was August and hot, so I found myself very thirsty but the hunger pains did seem to go away overnight. I felt very positive about the experience and my friend did eventually enter the waters of baptism several months later before I left on my mission. On my mission we were instructed not to go without water in the summertime due to the sweltering heat. That helped my occasional headaches a bit, and I realized that one can still have a spiritual reverence and attitude of fasting while maintaining health. After my mission and into marriage I never saw fasting as difficult, except for the headaches from time-to-time. But my whole frame of mind on food and fasting changed when a friend of mine told me he was on a Keto diet. I told him it was stupid, then realized I really didn't know anything about it and so I experimented with it myself. The first time it was very hard to get into ketosis. I felt like I was dying even though I was eating non-carb foods. It was then that I had a "revelation" about my health. I was addicted to carbs. I didn't need to lose much weight, but what I found was that while I was in ketosis my mind was super clear - no fog in the morning or night. I needed less sleep and the headaches vanished. Once I came to know how my body would react to having no carbs, I found some profound truth to all my Boy Scout survival training. You don't need food if you are lost. You need water and shelter. Your body will eventually start burning your fats and you will survive quite a long time. That knowledge changed me. I can now fast (I always drink water) for two to three days without much effort and it feels great. The longest I have intentionally taken no food has been 7 days, but I could have gone on much longer by taking a daily vitamin and drinking water. In a way, knowing how my body reacts and knowing that I can do it without much effort, allows me to focus on my purposes more intently. I don't feel like I'm suffering when I fast, instead I feel like I'm focusing on something I know is more important. I applaud your efforts to explore this unique spiritual practice, and thank you again for sharing!

vs the mass of a mustard seed, you mean. A mustard seed has a mass on the order of one microgram (10-6 kg). An electron has a mass of 9.109x10-31 kg, or about 10-30 kg. So there's a gap there of about 24 orders of magnitude. Therefore, if you have the faith of an electron, you could move 10-24 of a mountain. A typical smallish mountain like the inhabitants of ancient Palestine might have been acquainted with would have been around maybe 109 kg, the largest mountains might be many times this size. Therefore, if you have the faith of an electron, the lower limit on your substance-moving abilities would appear to be around 10-15 kg. This would encompass things approaching a trillion nucleons (protons and neutrons) in mass, or a cube around 10,000 nucleons on a side. If we assume the "average atom" has a diameter of 140 pm and contains, let's just say, 10 nucleons per atom, then we would have (10-15 kg) / (1.6 x 10-24 kg/nucleon) = something under 1012 nucleons (pretty much a minimum possibility) (1012 nucleons) / (10 nucleons/atom) = 1011 atoms The cube root of is 1000 times the cube root of 100, which is about 4642. So this is a cube of about 4600 atoms on a side. Since our putative "atom" is 140 pm in diameter, this makes the cube (140 pm/atom) x (4600 atoms) = around 650 nm per side. The smallest thing visible to the adult human eye with good vision is around 30 µm. Children might improve on this down to maybe 5 µm at best, which is still nearly ten times larger (per dimension) than our faith-of-an-electron cube of matter. But the point is, it's something! Build on that!

“. . . He was told, ‘if you wish, It can catch you a fish— And then you’ll be ready for Lent’.”

There was a young fellow from Gwent ["fellow" scans better than "man"] Who asked why bananas are bent. "The banana tree's fruity Starts straight," said his cutie. "By the time they get here, they're just spent." There was a young fellow from Gwent Who asked why bananas are bent. His papa replied, "They lie down on one side And the imprint results in a dent." There was a young fellow from Gwent Who asked why bananas are bent. Barely more than a child, His amour slyly smiled, Mistaking what he really meant. There was a young fellow from Gwent Who asked why bananas are bent. His grammarian physician, Who loathed end prepositions, Said, "Angst 'tis, with which they're up-pent." There was a young fellow from Gwent Who asked why bananas are bent. "What's the point?" asked some guy. "Because," came the reply. "Well, in that case, get bent," said the gent. There was a young fellow from Gwent Who asked why bananas are bent. "The fruit that is yellow Is curved," said the fellow. "Aw, go on," said his Mum. So he went.

Jaimie, I'm not criticizing you directly. But I have to offer a rebuttal for others who are reading this thread. That was a twisted account of what actually happened. I've never heard of this before. Could you provide a reference? I know that after the failed attempt at calling upon Heaven, Martin admitted that he was the reason the Lord was silent, and went away to "humble himself". I don't know if that included fasting or not. But probably so. I've never heard any accounts about Oliver or David having fasted prior to the visitation. Provide a source. Really? https://www.livestrong.com/article/546782-can-lack-of-food-make-you-hallucinate/ Not a credible claim. I wouldn't find this believable if you said it about the followers of Jim Jones. But we're talking about three people who were highly educated, level-headed men who were leaders in their communities prior to meeting with Joseph. They all harbored doubts because they were wary of believing outlandish stories. They were not foolish children who could easily be tricked into anything. And he simply "talked them into" believing they saw something that wasn't there? That is not just persuasion and trickery. That is a master hypnotist at work. How many more abilities will they claim Joseph had and still be mortal. With all the claims of his critics, he almost seems like a Superman or something. Someone as good as The Mentalist only exists in fantasy land. If someone really were that good, he would HAVE to have help from above. Indeed. Jamie, I know you've behaved very well on this site for as long as I've known you. So, I'm not going to hold this against you personally. But the claims made by these "critics" twist the truth and then proceed to outright lie. I find it interesting that these men claim Joseph was a master trickster who deluded & deceived these men to believe what he said. But then the very words of their (the critics) very own arguments are outright deceptions. Do they believe that these witnesses were fools? Or do they believe that their own audience is full of fools? Depends on what the "unusual" state actually was. I know of someone who is morose and serious almost all the time. He always makes bad judgments because he looks at things from the most pessimistic perspective. But every once in a while he is in a cheery mood. And he brings forth some pearls of wisdom -- what some may call a "zen gem." Actually, that is exactly what you just did. As the link I posted above indicates, fasting for a day or so does not cause hallucinations. So, even if not "equating", you are at least drawing a parallel where there is none. It was along the lines of saying "Lions are mammals, and you're a mammal, so I should be really wary being around you." If anything, it tends to calm the "noise" of life and allow our minds to focus properly. Yes, he was. It isn't so simple as a blot of mustard that would cause something so serious as hallucinations. Hallucinations are A BIG DEAL. Your friend who saw pink elephants was not just "kinda drunk". You have to be WAYYY over the deep end to get to that stage (as you say "blind drunk"). If he did that with only a few small drinks, then he has other health issues he may want to get checked out.

I remember lining up on my first day in the MTC and receiving 3 or 4 vaccine shots in a row. My shoulder was sore for a week so I don't think that's a new policy. While I regularly receive the flu vaccine, I have no problem with anyone (including myself) opting out of the current COVID-19 gene therapies that create spike proteins. As an investor I have watched companies work for years on true vaccines that took 7-10 years to develop. I would never take an adjuvant developed in an emergency setting right out of the gate. Perhaps too many people have forgotten the Dengvaxia tragedy in the Philippines. Experts had declared Dengvaxia safe, but the experts were wrong. The very fact that new side effects (i.e. blood clotting) have been discovered that were not anticipated from the computer modeling is an indication of the wisdom of taking time in these matters IMHO. https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/moderna-pfizer-vaccines-blood-clots-inflammation-brain-heart/

Ratio of mustard seed to a lepton (it is on the order of Avagadro's number). Ratio of a mountain to a speck of dust (it is on the order of Avagadro's number).

Don't just leave us hanging! Honestly, I don't know. I was changing at the time. There weren't any stunned or awkward looks from anyone, so I assume nobody had to deal with going from "Jesus wants me for a Sunbeam" to "O Death where is thy sting, O grave, where is thy victory". Or maybe they weren't surprised, since the hubby was given the job.

I understand your concern, and I don't dismiss it. But I think the focus is wrong. The root of the problem appears to me to be a hero-worshipping culture where our leaders (in whatever field) must approach spotless perfection. Being a merely good, decent, honest man is not enough. (Would to God that we had merely good, decent, honest men holding our political and societal reins.) No, the man under question must never have exhibited any weakness or foolishness ever. More than that, he must never have exhibited any distaste for current popular fads such as homosexual conduct. And being religious is literally a detriment to him, unless (as do the British) the man is sort of "publicly religious", wherein he claims belief in and sustenance from A Higher Power, but is careful never to reveal exactly whom or what he worships. Because such things are far too personal, and just not appropriate for public discourse. Instead, he can talk about his sexual conquests and his baby-mamas. If people cared about important things and refused to invest themselves much in trivial matters, this "problem" would not exist. So the fundamental deficiency is in how the public at large views and processes information. As long as this is the case, the Church will have trouble gaining traction. But guess what? That has ALWAYS been the condition of Christ's Church, from the very beginning. The world actively teaches people to care about trivia and to ignore matters of substance. That will not change. If only there were a way to get people to hear the truth despite their own prejudices. If only the Savior could call out to such people and they would hear his voice, because they are his sheep. If only.

There are tales of American Indians covering 100 miles in a day on foot. I think those stories have been largely discounted in modern times, but maybe we should reassess just what properly trained and motivated people are capable of.

Lovely person. And now I'm all curious about the asterisks. FTR, I don't agree with either of your acquaintances. I do believe that the physical sacrifice involved is intrinsic to the value of a fast. But I believe it's much more than this. Lots of things are available to sacrifice, if that's your mindset. Fasting provides a somewhat unique (can I even say "somewhat unique"? Is that like "more perfect"?) sacrifice in that you are willingly depriving yourself of a necessity of life. But I think it goes beyond this, as well. My own idea—and this is not canonical LDS doctrine, so please don't take it as such—is that intentional fasting and prayer somehow opens to us spiritual sensitivity and insights that we do not normally perceive. The scriptures are replete with stories of men gaining great spiritual gifts and magnifying the spiritual gifts they already possess through fasting. Somehow, the power of God is made manifest in such people, and their fasting is an integral part of that process. Now, I don't mean to make this procedural. I definitely do believe that God is not capricious, that he is a God of law, and that he follows processes to bring about his creations. But I don't claim to know those processes; they surely go far beyond any physics we have developed. My own belief is that fasting is, in effect, an eternal law, and that by following that law, we can experience its blessings. But I don't claim to know the boundaries or intricacies of the law of the fast. Obviously, it's more than just not eating anything. It certainly must be done with a pure heart. A major reason for my experimentation is to try to figure out how such things work. Yeah, the "God is bigger than food" thing leaves me nonplussed. I don't really have a response to it, except to say, "Okay, whatever." I guess if it worked for her, then more power to her.

In a sense, the Bible is more foundational than the Book of Mormon. But the Book of Mormon is truly and literally the word of God to our generation. I suspect that will be the case throughout this dispensation of the gospel, or at least until we have more historical revelation given to us to flesh out the books that should have been in the Bible but never made it for one reason or another.

It was really a question of how Nephi framed the "problem at hand". In Nephi's mind The challenge before him was Laban, himself. It was not his men. The challenge before the Israelites fleeing Egypt was "the Egyptians", which may or may not have included Pharaoh. It is not really a matter of it being right or wrong. It was a question of perception. Whether that was the reality or whatever literary parallels you wish to draw, the wording here simply reflects Nephi's perspective for each of the two situations at the time that he wrote it.

That's awesome. Do you have any suggestions how the rest of us might achieve a 110% attendance rate?

A question regarding fasting in difficult circumstances... When I get really upset, I tend to shut down in some areas. I'm neither hungry nor thirsty, I have to force myself through daily task, etc. Regarding the first example, I make myself eat and drink a bit, figuring some nourishment might do me good. But this thread has me wondering if I should just go with it. Seek heavenly comfort, turn it into a fast.

Posted on September 24th 2019 Habakkuk was disgusted by the unrighteousness of his nation (Habakkuk 1:2-4). God told Habakkuk that He felt the same way, so His plan was to bring suffering to Judah (Habakkuk 1:5-11). This plan would bring Judah back to reality and back to dependence on God. The plan was to bring Babylonian armies to demolish and conquer Judah. Habakkuk was horrified by this plan because Habakkuk felt that God owed something better to Judah (Habakkuk 1:12-17). God answered his confusion in Habakkuk chapter 2. God’s only encouragement was to say that the Babylonians would also suffer for their injustice. Last week I couldn’t even pray because I was angry at God for not preventing America from descending ever farther into unrighteousness. So I asked myself why I felt entitled to have America remain righteous. I never felt entitled that another country be righteous when I lived there. I thought of the often cited 2 Chronicles 7:14, “If My people, who are called by My name, humble themselves…I will …heal their land.” This was a promise given to Israel, a nation in which 100% of the people (at the time) were His people. In the USA, only 10% to 30% are born again. So not all US residents are His people. If 100% of Israel repented, of course it would be healed. But if between 10% and 30% of a nation repent, the majority of the nation can still keep abortion legal. Islam conquered 4 out of the 5 historic apostolic centers of Christianity. None of those four centers have returned to Christianity since then. There is no guarantee that the USA will retain Christian morality or values. Those apostolic centers had more reason to expect God’s intervention than the US does. Sometimes suffering is the way that God purifies a nation, leading it to repentance. If it doesn’t lead a nation to repentance, His judgment at least glorifies His own sense of holiness and honor. Read more at: https://redstatesecession.org/escape-gods-judgment-of-the-usa/

My niece was recently baptized... For the filler time between the baptism and the rest of the service they handed out a postcard size paper and a pen. And asked everyone to write a note to my niece. I had never had that happen before but I though it was pretty cool. After the service was over we were invited back to their house for lunch...

An interesting update on this front: The new Church Handbook updates strongly encourages vaccination and advises that un-vaccinated missionaries will most likely serve in their home countries. https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/31/22359997/vaccinations-protect-health-and-preserve-life-latter-day-saint-handbook-update-mormon-lds While neither of these are really new updates (the Church has been pro-vaccine for decades), it is a very potent and timely reminder.

I have not gone as hard core as some describe here. But I've done intermittent fasting for a week at a time. Eat one meal. Wait 24 hours. Eat another meal... After a few days, I notice that my stomach is atrophying. So, it takes less food to fill my stomach. I find that I'm able to concentrate a lot better. I work more efficiently. My mood is better. I'm more alert. After about a week of my stomach getting smaller and smaller, I tend to get too tired and it starts having a negative affect. So, eat normally for a couple of weeks. Then I start the cycle over again. For me it was basically a method of dieting, rather than for spiritual rejuvenation. But that side of it has manifested itself as a side effect.

Right here: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-leaders-covid-19-vaccine Doesn't make sense. How don't those two statements make sense? The full quotes, in context: As appropriate opportunities become available, the Church urges its members, employees and missionaries to be good global citizens and help quell the pandemic by safeguarding themselves and others through immunization. Individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. In making that determination, we recommend that, where possible, they counsel with a competent medical professional about their personal circumstances and needs. "We're urging you, not commanding you. Check with your doctor and make your decision." Just about everyone should get the vaccination, but not everybody. Some folks have medically diagnosed contraindications, for example.

There is actually an Ebook from him regarding this: https://deseretbook.com/p/stay-life-boat-dont-let-world-pull-you-under-brad-wilcox-389?variant_id=112585-ebook

I'm not understanding what the issue is. How is the analogy stigmatizing and divisive?

He just couldn't feel That he'd stepped on a peel. So through the glass door he went.

Also, in a church where our leaders speak often about putting away electronic devices on Sunday, especially during the sacrament, I am tickled pink to be the the special one in the pews concentrating on his laptop, listening to his phone through one earpiece. My inner teenager rejoices that the rules don't apply to me! (I know this isn't what "be as little children" means, but could it mean it maybe just a little?)

Then why is this the most-read news article on your browser history?