Why is coffee or tea forbidden?

[The Folk Prophet]

  On 7/20/2018 at 12:22 PM, TheOne13 said:

Why is coffee or tea forbidden but it's okay to drink things like Coke?

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It is, I believe, plainly a litmus test as much as anything. 

[Midwest LDS]

  On 7/20/2018 at 12:22 PM, TheOne13 said:

Why is coffee or tea forbidden but it's okay to drink things like Coke?

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I swear I'm not trying to be flippant, but because the Lord told us not to drink Coffee and Tea and hasn't with Coke. That's really the only reason.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Midwest LDS

[Guest MormonGator]

  On 7/22/2018 at 8:42 PM, Midwest LDS said:

I swear I'm not trying to be flippant, 

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Dude, you are among the most polite people here. No one would ever call you flippant of disrespectful.  

[Guest Scott]

  On 7/22/2018 at 7:07 PM, MormonGator said:

More arguments are started over this than any other topic. Seriously. You can tell an LDS man that his mother was a ___________, but when Coke and Pepsi are mentioned, break out the swords. 

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I  know.  That's why I only directly cut and pasted statements from Church leaders on LDS.org, rather than expressed my own opinion.   Anyone who disagrees with the statement can take up with the Church, rather than me.  🙂

[Guest MormonGator]

  On 7/23/2018 at 12:42 AM, Scott said:

  Anyone who disagrees with the statement can take up with the Church

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They can discuss it over coffee and a cigarette, right? 
 

[zil]

  On 7/23/2018 at 12:30 AM, MormonGator said:

flippant

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[Midwest LDS]

  On 7/23/2018 at 12:30 AM, MormonGator said:

Dude, you are among the most polite people here. No one would ever call you flippant of disrespectful.  

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Thanks ☺

[Fether]

  On 7/22/2018 at 7:30 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

It doesn't tell me how much aspertame is a lethal dose. 

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Aspartame is like an exciting lottery. Am I going to get cancer from on can, or from 5,000?

[Blackmarch]

  On 7/20/2018 at 12:22 PM, TheOne13 said:

Why is coffee or tea forbidden but it's okay to drink things like Coke?

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cause thats what the leaders were inspired to implement. probably because it was the quickest way to protect us from harm of the substances and/or the predations of those who peddle it at the time.... however they have yet to take it off the list.

as for coke, like a lot of other things- that depends.

[Sunday21]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=south+korea+cofee+school+ban&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ca&client=safari

South Korea bans coffee in schools - Evan for teachers

[mordorbund]

  On 7/20/2018 at 6:05 PM, Vort said:

Good thing I didn't post the link I meant to post. Here's the one-hour version.

 

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PSA: Do NOT play this around a pregnant woman unless you are fully prepared to make bacon pancakes.

[Guest]

  On 7/20/2018 at 9:12 PM, zil said:

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What pens and ink?

[Guest]

  On 7/23/2018 at 2:23 AM, zil said:

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I had never even heard of these things before.  But, apparently, they are called "Flip Pants".

[zil]

  On 9/2/2018 at 2:22 PM, Carborendum said:

What pens and ink?

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Pfff.  I don't remember now.  But I'd bet I posted other pictures that day and said... Please hold....  Well, apparently not.  Resorting to ink log...  OK, these are my suspicions...

The blue is Waterman Mysterious Blue in a Waterman Laureat, F.  The Starbucks side is Visconti Sepia in a Platinum 3776 Century, SF (ditto the flip ant).  The Coca-Cola side is Robert Oster Astorquiza Rot in a Pilot Vanishing Point Decimo, EF (this ink looks pretty brown when dry, and more so when photographed).

[anatess2]

  On 7/23/2018 at 12:30 AM, MormonGator said:

Dude, you are among the most polite people here. No one would ever call you flippant of disrespectful.  

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  On 7/23/2018 at 2:23 AM, zil said:

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  On 9/2/2018 at 2:28 PM, Carborendum said:

I had never even heard of these things before.  But, apparently, they are called "Flip Pants".

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@VelvetShadow, so you think all these things above are insults?  Or "inside jokes"?

[Blackmarch]

  On 7/20/2018 at 12:22 PM, TheOne13 said:

Why is coffee or tea forbidden but it's okay to drink things like Coke?

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because those were specifically pointed out.  Coke may or may not depending on the situation. hopefully we won't abuse this to the point where they have to do the same thing they did with tea and coffee.

[goor_de]

  On 7/20/2018 at 12:22 PM, TheOne13 said:

Why is coffee or tea forbidden but it's okay to drink things like Coke?

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All three are not good because coca is caffeine like coffee

[Chilean]

  On 9/18/2018 at 2:42 AM, Blackmarch said:

because those were specifically pointed out.  Coke may or may not depending on the situation. hopefully we won't abuse this to the point where they have to do the same thing they did with tea and coffee.

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Hahaha cause we don't abuse them right now? "Yes, please, I want a Supersize coke", "Yes, I'll take another refill".  Coke and Pepsi are sooooo abuse here in the states, it's crazy!

Edited September 25, 2018 by Chilean

[Lost Boy]

  On 7/21/2018 at 1:15 AM, Ironhold said:

http://www.caffeineinformer.com/

It surprises most people how much caffeine they take down in a day. 

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Not me.  I am on a low carb diet.  So I don't even eat chocolate.  Just veggies and meat.  My caffeine intake is essentially zero.  I don't hardly ever have caffeine, but one day I was on a business trip and needed to drive about 9 hours and I needed to stay away, so I had a monster energy drink about 7 am.  Bad thing to do.  I was still feeling weird about 12 hours later.  Never again.  Caffeine and me don't get along well.

[MarginOfError]

There is a really good treatment of the Word of Wisdom that discusses a number of the restrictions provided in D&C 89.

https://history.lds.org/article/doctrine-and-covenants-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng

In that essay, it points out that coffee had become a popular substitute for whiskey, but that D&C 89 rather flatly rejected the notion of a need for a whiskey substitute.  When the words "hot drinks" were written, it was culturally understood that this meant coffee and tea. The explicit identification of coffee and tea came some decades later when the cultural understanding of "hot drinks" had begun to fade.

Why are colas and other caffeinated drinks "okay?"  That really depends on what you mean by "okay?"  Here are some common variants of the question with their answers:

• Why won't drinking other caffeinated beverages preclude one from receiving a temple recommend? Because they aren't explicitly named on the list of restrictions published by the Church.
• Why aren't other caffeinated beverages included on the list of restrictions published by the Church? Because the Church has decided not to include them?
• Why has the church not decided to include other caffeinated beverages from the list of explicit restrictions? You make the assumption that the issue is caffeine.  No one has ever authoritatively stated it is.

One of my Institute students asked a similar question last week, and so we had a great discussion about the issue--prefaced heavily with the caveat that this is MOE's interpretation.  If you take a look at the D&C 89, it does prohibit uses of some substances, such as tobacco, strong drink (distilled liquors), and hot drinks.  The thread that is common in all of those chemical dependency.  In short, the whole point of the restrictions was to prevent the potentially devastating consequences of chemical dependency on our physical bodies.  I support this claim by quoting verses 3 and 4, which state that the guidance is "adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints" and "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days"

In other words, these restrictions are placed on everyone to protect the most susceptible to chemical dependency from being taken advantage of by those who would exploit human weakness for profit.  Consider the tobacco companies who sought to maximize the nicotine content of their products to ensnare their customer base. The same concept can be accomplished with alcohols and coffees.  We know that various individuals are more susceptible to addiction to some substances than others.  A blanket restriction protects the weakest by having the strongest act in solidarity.

At this point, it is easy to claim, "but caffeine is addictive. Shouldn't all caffeine be avoided in order to prevent chemical dependency."  To this I reply, "well, anything can be taken to an extreme." If you want to get fussy, we are all chemically dependent on water, but no one would dream about prohibiting that from our diets. 

The issue is not just the substance, but also the dosing.  For example, I work at a facility that processes toxic chemicals. By toxic, I mean that if a liquid drop of this stuff large enough to be seen to the naked eye lands on your skin, it will kill you. As we process these chemicals, it is virtually inevitable that some of the chemical vapor will be released to the outside air, which is naturally concerning.  To ensure that we do not poison the environment, we monitor the air to ensure that the concentration that escapes the facility never exceeds the 40 year concentration--that is, the concentration at which a person could continuously breathe these vapors for 40 years before developing symptoms of exposure. 

Again, it isn't just the substance, but also the dosing.

The caffeine concentration in most coffees is about four times as high as in the average cola (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/caffeine/art-20049372).  In other words, colas aren't as addictive as coffee (theoretically).  Energy drinks have a much wider range of caffeine concentration.  Does this mean colas aren't addictive?  No, it just means that they are different.  And the current statements on whether or not they are permissible suggest that it is up to the individual to decide.  

The advice I gave my Institute students regarding caffeinated beverages, or any other substance not explicitly prohibited, was to be mindful that you do not become dependent.  If you find yourself having regular or frequent cravings, you should probably cut it from your diet.  Focus less on the prohibitions, and focus more on your health. For a healthy body is a great complement to an enlightened soul.

[Styln]

  On 7/21/2018 at 1:15 AM, Ironhold said:

http://www.caffeineinformer.com/

It surprises most people how much caffeine they take down in a day. 

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I like it black, untainted, hot, and many cups per day. I feel no spiritual remorse for such a pleasant activity, supping the flavor of Godly creation "The Coffee Bean"  Hopefully I have not offended anyone. I guess I don't understand why a person would not drink tea or coffee for religious reasons.

 

Styln

[anatess2]

  On 9/26/2018 at 10:19 PM, Styln said:

I like it black, untainted, hot, and many cups per day. I feel no spiritual remorse for such a pleasant activity, supping the flavor of Godly creation "The Coffee Bean"  Hopefully I have not offended anyone. I guess I don't understand why a person would not drink tea or coffee for religious reasons.

 

Styln

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Same reason people do things like... wear caps, veils, scapulars, avoid crop tops, swearing, fornicating, etc. etc.  Also same reason I take off my shoes when I enter my mother's house and not throw away used Solo cups.  Because I promised.

[Maureen]

  On 9/26/2018 at 10:36 PM, anatess2 said:

...and not throw away used Solo cups...

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Not ever throw them away, even after multiple use? If so, what do you do with them?

M.

[anatess2]

  On 9/26/2018 at 11:24 PM, Maureen said:

Not ever throw them away, even after multiple use? If so, what do you do with them?

M.

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Believe it or not, my Mom hand washes them to be re-used until the thing gets torn.  My mom doesn't understand the concept of "disposable".

Edited September 26, 2018 by anatess2

[SilentOne]

  On 9/26/2018 at 10:19 PM, Styln said:

I like it black, untainted, hot, and many cups per day. I feel no spiritual remorse for such a pleasant activity, supping the flavor of Godly creation "The Coffee Bean"  Hopefully I have not offended anyone. I guess I don't understand why a person would not drink tea or coffee for religious reasons.

  On 9/26/2018 at 10:36 PM, anatess2 said:

Same reason people do things like... wear caps, veils, scapulars, avoid crop tops, swearing, fornicating, etc. etc.  Also same reason I take off my shoes when I enter my mother's house and not throw away used Solo cups.  Because I promised.

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Plus, if you truly believe you were commanded to do (or not do) something by a loving deity who knows what is best for you, it seems reasonable to at least try to follow those instructions.

Edited September 27, 2018 by SilentOne