Changes Are Coming! (or, Putting Up with All Those Weak, Lame-O Saints That Hold Us Back)

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Some news outlets and even the snarky title to this topic seem to insinuate the desire to do away with the weaker families in the Church.

Clearly we want to "do away" with weaker families in the Church. Just not in the obvious way.

[Vort]

11 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Clearly we want to "do away" with weaker families in the Church. Just not in the obvious way.

Where's Porter Rockwell when you need him?

[mikbone]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

Where's Porter Rockwell when you need him?

In the living room.  Child # 8 of 11 we named after the destroying angel of Mormondom.

He is a 9 year old innocent and nobel child and my soul loves him.

We call him P-rock and he brings me diet mt. dews to my hearts content.

We are fixin to watch BYU vs McNeese St.

[askandanswer]

When it comes to providing blessings for families, I can't see much that happens in the 3 hour meeting block that theoretically couldn't be done better by/within an ideal family. The three hour meeting block is a powerful aid to strengthening families, and as families become stronger, perhaps the need for the aid becomes less compelling. I can see a scenario where a church organisation could still exist and function at a local level so that the bishop and clerk and a few others can carry out administrative procedures, such as interviews and ordinations, and organising missionary work, without any kind of regular 3 hour meetings needing to be held because its all happening at home. We're not there yet but I think its a goal to be aimed for. 

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

We are fixin to watch BYU vs McNeese St.

I'm watching Gators vs Tennessee right now. College football fans unite! 

[askandanswer]

And for those who are interested in the real football (AFL _ Australian Football League), last Friday night, Collingwood defeated Richmond, last year's Grand Finalists, so now Collingwood will play West Coast next Saturday in this year's Grand Final.

[Vort]

BYU is beating mighty Mcneese State!

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

The three hour meeting block is a powerful aid to strengthening families,

Yeah? How so?

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

and as families become stronger, perhaps the need for the aid becomes less compelling. 

Even if this is true....do you really see families as stronger now than they have been heretofore?

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

 I can see a scenario where a church organisation could still exist and function at a local level so that the bishop and clerk and a few others can carry out administrative procedures, such as interviews and ordinations, and organising missionary work, without any kind of regular 3 hour meetings needing

This stuff doesn't happen in the 3 hour block.

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

We're not there yet but I think its a goal to be aimed for. 

Why on earth is that a goal to be aimed for?

[carlimac]

One more thing that came to mind today is that wards outside of the intermountain west are pretty spread apart. It takes many of our ward members more than 40 min to get to church. So that makes it necessary for the bishop to do a lot of the interviews on Sunday after church. We are a ward with a bunch of military which makes for lots of frequent changes- new callings almost every week. Which means settings apart, too. Not only is the bishop staying at the church for long hours, people have to wait in line for a long time to get an interview. He delegates out what he can but he still is swamped after church. We usually try to start BYC at 12:30 but many times he can't pull away from interviews till 1:00 which makes BYC go till 2:00.   

It just really needs to be shortened. 

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, carlimac said:

One more thing that came to mind today is that wards outside of the intermountain west are pretty spread apart. It takes many of our ward members more than 40 min to get to church. So that makes it necessary for the bishop to do a lot of the interviews on Sunday after church. We are a ward with a bunch of military which makes for lots of frequent changes- new callings almost every week. Which means settings apart, too. Not only is the bishop staying at the church for long hours, people have to wait in line for a long time to get an interview. He delegates out what he can but he still is swamped after church. We usually try to start BYC at 12:30 but many times he can't pull away from interviews till 1:00 which makes BYC go till 2:00.   

It just really needs to be shortened. 

That's a good point. Bishops work incredibly hard, they could use a break. 

[SilentOne]

On 9/21/2018 at 3:25 PM, zil said:

On 9/21/2018 at 2:54 PM, Vort said:

I do not promise to quit feeling irritation when people keep drooling for a two-hour block, but I will do my best to keep my uncharitable feelings to myself. I do promise to try not to take inordinate pleasure when no such announcement is made in eight days.

 

Erm, 15 days.

 

I take it you approve of his intention to "try not to take inordinate pleasure when no such announcement is made" in 14 days. How should he react to the lack of announcement in 7 days? The odds for that lack of announcement seem a smidgen better.

Edited September 23, 2018 by SilentOne

[Guest]

13 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I can see a scenario where a church organisation could still exist and function at a local level so that the bishop and clerk and a few others can carry out administrative procedures, such as interviews and ordinations, and organising missionary work, without any kind of regular 3 hour meetings needing to be held because its all happening at home. We're not there yet but I think its a goal to be aimed for. 

I believe you're missing the whole point of having a congregational meeting in the first place -- the strength of community.

[Colirio]

I have it from a reliable source that the following changes will be taking place:

 

1. Doing away with early morning seminary. 

This will be replaced with a daily early morning Sunday School for the entire family at the chapel. Class starts at 5:45 am and not a minute later. 

 

2. Doing away with the Sunday 3 hour meeting schedule. 

This will be replaced with a 2 1/2 hour Sacrament meeting. We heard you enjoyed listening to the high councilmen speak, so we wanted to make sure he could be extra thorough! 

 

3. In order to move closer to the law of consecration, tithing will now be moved to paying 63% of your increase instead of 10%. We also anticipate this will increase the saints' ability to do math. 

 

4. All classes will now take place in the foyers. We anticipate this will move everyone else into the classrooms where they will find a secretly called individual there who will inconspicuously lead a gospel centered discussion amongst the group. 

 

 

You heard it here first! 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Colirio said:

I have it from a reliable source that the following changes will be taking place:

1. Doing away with early morning seminary. 

This will be replaced with a daily early morning Sunday School for the entire family at the chapel. Class starts at 5:45 am and not a minute later. 

2. Doing away with the Sunday 3 hour meeting schedule. 

This will be replaced with a 2 1/2 hour Sacrament meeting. We heard you enjoyed listening to the high councilmen speak, so we wanted to make sure he could be extra thorough! 

3. In order to move closer to the law of consecration, tithing will now be moved to paying 63% of your increase instead of 10%. We also anticipate this will increase the saints' ability to do math. 

4. All classes will now take place in the foyers. We anticipate this will move everyone else into the classrooms where they will find a secretly called individual there who will inconspicuously lead a gospel centered discussion amongst the group. 

That's awesome!

[mirkwood]

Uhhh....no....THIS is real football.  Notice foot and ball together...

 

screenshot captor

[carlimac]

And one more thing using our after the block time...choir practice! Our ward finally has a director who doesn't think choir only needs to sing on Christmas. I'm actually delighted to be in a ward choir again. I'll stay longer for that any Sunday.

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by carlimac

[askandanswer]

18 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

19 hours ago, askandanswer said:

The three hour meeting block is a powerful aid to strengthening families,

Yeah? How so?

Well in my ward, the time is frequently used to teach and build commitment to principles and practices aimed at strengthening families, but I understand that not all wards are the same, so this might not be happening in your ward.

18 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

19 hours ago, askandanswer said:

and as families become stronger, perhaps the need for the aid becomes less compelling. 

Even if this is true....do you really see families as stronger now than they have been heretofore?

If families are not stronger now than they were 100 years ago, then something is catastrophically wrong. This would suggest that 100 years of efforts by prophets and apostles, Stake Presidents and Bishops, and 100 years of sacrament talks and lessons have failed to achieve one of their most important objectives. That is not a conclusion I would like to draw.

 

18 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

19 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I can see a scenario where a church organisation could still exist and function at a local level so that the bishop and clerk and a few others can carry out administrative procedures, such as interviews and ordinations, and organising missionary work, without any kind of regular 3 hour meetings needing

This stuff doesn't happen in the 3 hour block.

If often does but its not supposed to. The point I was trying to make is that in ideal circumstances, the objectives that the meetings held during the three hour block are intended to achieve could all be better achieved through families meeting in homes, either individually or in small groups, and all the administrative things that need to continue happening could all be done by a leadership team at the chapel, who would continue to undertake all the non-teaching tasks needed to meet the needs of the members and the organisational needs of the organisation.

Edited September 23, 2018 by askandanswer

[askandanswer]

18 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

19 hours ago, askandanswer said:

We're not there yet but I think its a goal to be aimed for. 

Why on earth is that a goal to be aimed for?

It is a goal to be aimed for because self reliance is better than reliance on community. This sentiment is similar to the sentiment that Moses expressed when he said 

(Old Testament | Numbers 11:29)
29  ,............ would God that all the LORD's people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!
 

[The Folk Prophet]

12 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

If families are not stronger now than they were 100 years ago, then something is catastrophically wrong. This would suggest that 100 years of efforts by prophets and apostles, Stake Presidents and Bishops, and 100 years of sacrament talks and lessons have failed to achieve one of their most important objectives. That is not a conclusion I would like to draw.

You're leaving out the 100 years of effort by Satan.

13 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

The point I was trying to make is that in ideal circumstances, the objectives that the meetings held during the three hour block are intended to achieve could all be better achieved through families meeting in homes,

The point I'm trying to make is that this is wrong. I'd also point out that meeting together often is scriptural -- not some lower-law cultural policy.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, askandanswer said:

self reliance is better than reliance on community.

Also wrong. Both are integral parts of Christ's gospel.

[askandanswer]

I suspect that during the latter part of Nazi Germany, small groups of families meeting together, or just individual families meeting on their own, was the normal practice for church members, and that to the extent that they were carried out, all the administrative functions of the church, currently overseen by Salt Lake and Area Officers, during that period, were carried out by local leaders, acting on their own, without direction from the hierarchy. I suspect that in countries where the church is not currently recognised, such as China, and where it might never be recognised, a similar situation prevails. I also think that the changed political and social circumstances that necessitated the changed function and structure of the church in Nazi could occur again elsewhere, necessitating a similar response. 

[Grunt]

22 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Uhhh....no....THIS is real football.  Notice foot and ball together...

 

screenshot captor

I never really got into following girls sports.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by Grunt

[anatess2]

54 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I never really got into following girls sports.  

Here is the sound of the end of my Grunt-hero-worship.  It was awesome while it lasted. 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

An increase to a 4 or 5 hour block would be funny. Imagine how many members would complain. Some members would go off their rocker. LOL

[mordorbund]

On 9/22/2018 at 7:51 AM, mikbone said:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/get-a-sneak-peek-at-the-new-church-curriculum-for-2019?lang=eng

 

Rather than just focusing on lessons to be taught in church, the new curriculum shifts the emphasis to studying as individuals and families at home.

“Programs of the Church are home centered and Church sponsored,” said Mike Magelby, director of curriculum for the Church, during the Education Week presentation. “Your study starts at home. You will get the doctrine and learn things from the home manual.”

One of the main ideas for the new curriculum came from section 1.4 of Handbook 2: Administering the Church, which reads: “God has revealed a pattern of spiritual progress for individuals and families through ordinances, teaching, programs, and activities that are home centered and Church supported.”

Rather than focusing on just the teaching in the weekly Church-meeting block, much of the learning is to be done at home so that church learning becomes a support—rather than the primary source—to teaching and learning in the gospel.

It's about time the Church finally rolled out something like this. I took a look at the intros in the manuals and was so excited to find these gems:

Quote

This study guide is a valuable resource for families. Each section contains a suggestion for an activity or discussion to add interest and variety to gospel learning in the home.

 

Quote

This study guide is a valuable resource for families. You may use the study questions to prompt gospel-centered discussions among family members. Also, each section contains a suggestion for family discussion. Family members may want to refer to these suggestions as they prepare lessons for family home evenings.

 

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This study guide outlines each week’s reading assignment, provides insightful application questions, and suggests additional scripture references to give clarity and breadth to your study. (The Bible Dictionary, Topical Guide, and footnotes in the LDS edition of the King James Bible also provide many helpful insights.) The study guide is designed for the following uses:

1. Individual scripture study. The application questions included with each reading assignment will help you see how the teachings of the Old Testament prophets can help you come closer to Christ.

2. Family scripture study. This study guide will be a valuable tool for lessons in family home evening and for other family discussions.

3. Preparation for class discussion. As you study the reading assignments and consider the application questions, you will be better prepared to make meaningful contributions in your Gospel Doctrine class.

Guided by the Spirit in your study, you will be able to testify with Job, “I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth” (Job 19:25).

Hang on a minute...

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This study guide has been prepared to help you study the Doctrine and Covenants and Church history. The guide is divided into numbered sections that correspond with the lessons in the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine course. Each section provides the week’s reading assignment, along with questions and other information to enhance your study. You may use the questions to improve personal application of the scriptures and to prepare to make meaningful contributions to class discussions. You may also use the study guide to prompt gospel-centered discussions among family members.

this is starting to sound like it's just....

Quote

Gospel Principles was written both as a personal study guide and as a teacher’s manual. As you study it, seeking the Spirit of the Lord, you can grow in your understanding and testimony of God the Father, Jesus Christ and His Atonement, and the Restoration of the gospel. You can find answers to life’s questions, gain an assurance of your purpose and self-worth, and face personal and family challenges with faith.

OKAY! NEVERMIND!!

This is the current curriculum. And "Rather than just focusing on lessons to be taught in church, [it] shifts the emphasis to studying as individuals and families at home."