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My first thought when I hear "city on a hill" is Israel. God commanded his people to be that shining light that would draw people to Him. Jesus similarly said we are to be salt and light--a city on a hill. I suspect most LDS have this in mind when they labor to create hard-working, clean, low-crime communities wherever they reside--especially in concentrated numbers. I'm not sure Winthrop was trying to make a point by not mentioning Jesus' name in abundance. He simply focused on Jesus' words for this homily. Jesus' name can be used a lot or a little. My desire is simply that it be used well.

1. To view the degrees of glory as something you either “earn” or “are sentenced to”, is to miss the whole point of the Plan of Salvation. It’s not about what you do; it’s about what you become. To suggest that you’ve reached a point in life where you are no longer able to become celestial material—or to suggest that, having become celestialized, you are “owed” a certain form of existence—is fundamentally to deny the atonement of Christ. 2. The scriptures suggest that physical pain itself is a condition limited to fallen mortality. As far as how a resurrected body would react to a maiming-type event: it’s all conjecture at this point; but it seems to me that most maiming-type accidents are either the result of a) careless/limited information/foresight by the injured person, and/or b) being subject to the powers of a malicious third party. I have no reason to believe that either a) or b) would be the case in eternity. To speculate about a resurrected being getting their arm stuck in a meat grinder, or stabbing another resurrected being just to see what would happen—one may as well ask if God would ever torture kittens for fun. I suppose it may be physically possible, but His perfected character—and those of resurrected beings—renders it utterly inconceivable. That’s what the thousand years of hell does—it offers individual deconstruction as an alternative to individual destruction. Where it succeeds, the result is redemption and a nature that renders the individual—if not fully prepared to join the council of gods as a peer and exercise divine authority over new generations of creations—at least finally able and willing to abide some form of law that renders them absolutely harmless to others. Where the process doesn’t succeed, the result is perdition—the state of being lost—the only state, according to scripture, in which there has been no redemption. 3. I don’t know whether sexual desire will even exist amongst resurrected beings, or solely among certain classes of resurrected beings. But if we spend our time in the here-and-now wondering about spending an eternity having sex rather than—say—spending an eternity composing symphonies, or studying architecture, or calculating gravitational constants, or making the perfect soufflé, or just watching a sunset and shooting the breeze with our loved ones; then the world (and especially, our sexual urges) are probably dominating our priorities a little more than they ought.

@Carborendum Here is at least one instance, Elder Perry quoting Elder Stapley: "Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said about covenants: “The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and his people. … When baptized by an authorized servant of God, we covenant to do God’s will and to obey his commandments. … By partaking of the Sacrament we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of his Son, to always remember him and keep his commandments” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1965, 14)." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2006/04/as-now-we-take-the-sacrament?lang=eng It seems like Elder Bednar quoted him as well but I could be wrong. This of course doesn't constitute "official doctrine" but from a strictly doctrinal point of view, if by partaking of the sacrament we are renewing the covenant to keep the Lord's commandments then I would have to assume that includes our temple covenants. But I guess it comes down to how you define "renew" and its purpose. If the object of renewal revolves around the repentance process and as being preparatory for making and keeping temple covenants then you can make the case for the sacrament being strictly a baptismal covenant renewal. But if on the other hand we view renewing it in the larger context of reaffirming our standing with the Lord and our covenant relationship with Him then we must include the covenants made in the temple. Either way you can make valid points and I don't really have a dog in the fight though based on my current understanding I would lean more towards a renewal of all covenants.

Around here, with the numbers of new cases lately, I've been hearing that the hospitals won't be able to keep up if things don't slow down soon. Maybe not even if they do. It looks more like the curve was pushed back a couple months than significantly flattened. Or maybe it was flattened, just not by nearly enough. I am a high-risk individual. I have to physically go to my workplace, where I am not the only high-risk person. Even though officially we are required to wear masks, most don't. I've considered saying I won't come in because I am scared for my health and life and that of my father, who I live with and has more health problems than me, but I have expenses and who knows how long this will go on and how long it would take me to find another source of income? One of my high-risk co-workers has a second, public-facing job. Her expenses are higher than mine. I can see the logic in wanting to catch the virus to get immune and get it over with. But the idea that high-risk people can and should just completely isolate themselves so everybody else doesn't have to that I am feeling (note I said feeling - I realize I may be a bit extra sensitive on this subject and thus reading in sentiments not actually there) reminds me a little of the anti-vax arguments that if we have so much faith in the vaccine, others' lack of immunization shouldn't bother us - ignoring or unaware of those who can't be vaccinated. And as for catching the virus being inevitable, I have been following the news on the various vaccine trials and the general consensus seems to be that we'll have something by early next year; possibly this fall. Maybe that's overly optimistic, but I'm hoping these vaccines are answers to the multiple worldwide fasts this spring.

A lot of people like to say this. Yet, they have no idea who are making the guidelines and why. "Wear a mask"... "Why?"... "Because the internet says you won't transmit Cov-19 if you wear one."... "But I don't have Cov-19."... "You don't know if you have Cov-19"... "I've been quarantined in my house for 4 months and have not come into contact with anybody close enough to catch Cov-19"... "You don't know that...you're going to kill grandma"... "So, how do you know that wearing a mask will stop grandma from dying?"... "Because the internet..."

I wonder whether we aren’t judging many of the colonials by 21st-century notions of “Christianity”, and maybe @prisonchaplain can weigh in on this. But it seems to me that nowadays Christians—especially Protestants—are all “Jesus” this and “Jesus” that. But Winthrop’s “City on a Hill” sermon doesn’t contain the words “Jesus” or “Christ” once. I wonder whether earlier Americans, while undeniably Christian in attitude, simply were more reticent to invoke the name of Jesus due to some desire to keep the name sacred (a perspective that retains some potency among our own fellow Saints today). Maybe modern researchers assume that since Washington didn’t use the vocabulary of modern Christians, he must not have actually thought much of Christ. I wonder whether, if forced to apply their assumptions and techniques to the surviving works of some colonial preacher (Cotton Mather, for example), those researchers would be compelled to reach the same conclusion about him as they do about Washington.

As a side note, I am convinced that those who end up in the outer darkness (or hell) would prefer no other venue. They set their hearts against the Godhead, and aim for an eternal place that is apart.

Okay, my perspective, as an outsider, probably is quite ignorant. However, I somehow got the impression that all three kingdoms were...well...heavenly realms. So, I imagine that the terrestrial kingdom is exponentially better than the telestial one, and that the celestial kingdom is exponentially better than the terrestrial one, but that even the telestial kingdom is better than our current state--perhaps, again, exponentially so. In other words, it's all good, all challenging, all Heavenly Father (through His Son or Spirit) allowing us to develop to our personal bests. It may well be that telestial living would seem pathetic to one accustomed to the higher realms. However, it is likely the most appropriate and balanced for those who will reside there. I doubt anyone will be bored--even in the outer darkness. [Now, let the faithful fill in the huge gaps I just left behind...]

Critics are so quick to point out the supposedly racist words used in the Book of Mormon. But no one points out something that is glaringly egalitarian about it. People tend to simply gloss over it because of presentism, just as they tend to claim racism based on presentism. It is pretty interesting whether you look at it from being authored by Joseph Smith or if you look at it as an ancient document. In the 1820s slavery was still a big thing. The northern states had just outlawed it about 10 years before Joseph's birth. But the southern states were chugging along with the institution. As an ancient document, people certainly could have pointed to provisions in the Law of Moses regarding slavery as a justification to continue the practice. But both King Benjamin and King Mosiah outlawed it.

George Washington’s writings have long served as a guide to America’s first president—what he thought, how he made his decisions, even how he felt about his wife. But when it comes to his personal religious beliefs, Washington seems to have been a closed book—or, at least, unwilling to commit many of his own views to the page. Unlike many of his peers, including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams, Washington never explicitly laid out his own beliefs—even as he alluded to them in passing on many occasions. With so few actual accounts to draw from, historians are mostly limited to analyzing what Washington did, to try to understand what he may have believed. The trouble is, even his most straightforward actions can be hard to read and, at times, appear contradictory. The first president encouraged his fellow Americans to show up for worship, for instance, but sometimes struggled to make it to church himself for weeks at a time. For many years, he served as a dedicated vestryman and church warden, but left services instead of taking communion. And while he peppered his writings with references to Providence, there’s comparatively little mention of God or of Jesus Christ. Read more at: https://www.history.com/news/george-washington-religious-beliefs-god?li_source=LI&li_medium=m2m-rcw-history

Absolutely agree. I was pointing out the fault in the cancel culture's mindset. It was not a commentary on any other midset. (Difference being, consider it along with today's behavior and weigh it against other qualities vs. NEVER EVER forgive them because they did something years ago that they have disavowed no matter how much other good they do.) And, yes, it does have something to do with a person's politics. In fact, I'm told that we simply CANNOT separate them even when such people accuse others of conflating them. Wait...conflate...separate... Which was it we were supposed to do again?

I gave the link in another thread to which you've already replied. Remember?

As of yesterday, there were only 21 currently hospitalizeD https://swuhealth.org/covid/

I have heard this advice throughout my life. Many friends have extolled the virtues of topical study. Personally, I have found it occasionally useful, but on the whole not ideal for my own personal scripture study. Here are my thoughts on the matter, in case anyone cares. Most scriptures are not like the book of Proverbs, a random collection of insightful sayings and folk wisdom. Rather, there is almost always a local ordered temporal structure to what's written. By "local ordered temporal structure", I mean that the scriptural narrative in that book or at least chapter of scripture unfolds like a story, like watching a movie: First A happened, then B, followed by C. If you're reading here and there, back and forth, doing a topical study, these time-ordered sequences can become invisible. The Book of Mormon is the most obvious example. From Nephi's first chapter to Moroni's farewell, knowing the sequence of things that happen, and not merely the happenings themselves, is vital to understanding the scripture and its message. Sure, it's possible to profit from a topical study of the Book of Mormon. But that book of scripture was meant to be read front to back. It unfolds as a narrative, almost a novel written in the first person by Nephi, Mormon, and others. So while I would not discourage anyone from using topical study as a way to study the Book of Mormon, I would suggest that topical study is better used as an adjunct to study than as the primary method. It's not just the Book of Mormon; the Bible is often much the same. The entire book of Genesis, indeed most of the first five Biblical "books of Moses", are like this. So are the Old Testament histories (Samuel, Kings, Chronicles). Within the books of the prophets, each book or prophet tends to be temporally ordered, too. In the New Testament, each gospel tends to go from Christ's birth (or even before) chronologically through his calling, his ministry, his atoning sacrifice, his death, and his resurrection. The book of Acts is obviously a time-ordered history. Not so much with the apostles' epistles or the book of Revelation. Similarly, the Doctrine and Covenants is most easily understood if you know the background of what happened and how things unfolded. The sections are mostly arranged chronologically. But we tend to use the Doctrine and Covenants as a sort of reference manual, so that temporal flow is often overlooked. So topical study certainly has its place. If you're finding scripture study difficult to start, maybe a good topical study of doctrines of interest is the way to go. But as a general rule, my experience is that front-to-back study is reliably the best way to go.

... ahem... why do you think I started this thread?

Every company that I've ever worked for states its "governing values" which will include some type of "code of ethics." Most of them nowadays have some sort of political correctness about them. Some of them, I agree with; some, I don't. While I agree that each company has the right to declare its governing values and the right to fire someone over them, I believe it is a greater commentary on society as a whole when people get fired for the wrong reasons. Any company that feels it's ok to fire someone because they happened to be proud of their nuclear family deserves to be shamed. But when society does not respond that way, the company has no motivation to change. The fact that more and more companies are adopting a progressive mindset and values system is merely a symptom. It is not the disease.

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P.S. That watermelon sounds great for taking half of it for party eating and the other half of party juicing. I make watermelon punch a lot.

I suspect this is a minority viewpoint within LDS circles, but I completely agree with you, if for no other reason than that God is good and seeks to bless all. Those who remain filthy still and are cut off from God must surely be in that condition because that is what they choose.

If Mr. Smith chooses to promote LGBT rights, and seeks out a professional job he's qualified for, more power to him. This is America. If he promotes his horrible behavior towards the Chik-Fil-A workers as noble and just, and hopes to bankroll that boorishness with book deals and career enhancement, I frankly hope that doesn't go well. I hope I'm reasonable, hope-filled, and at least somewhat Christlike in this.

You understand correctly. Even the Telestial Kingdom is described as "surpassing all understanding." Then each level above is that much better than the previous.

I was thinking today that there is not much of this current world that I recognize from the world of my youth. Generally I think I have lived a good life, so far but for sure; I am a long way from home. I am a stranger in a strange land. And so I wonder, in that day beyond this life when the Saints of all the dispensations of earth get together to reminisce our mortal experiences and I mentioned living in this time - how many will in aw, wonder how it was that I was so lucky to live in such a time. The Traveler

I'm remembering the guy who participated in an organized LGBT messes with Chick Fil-A day. All LGBT and allies were encouraged to go through the drive-through at a Chick Fil-A and order water. This fellow decided to confront the 17-year-old minor, working the drive-through, berating her for working for such an evil, homophobic company. The worker remained professional throughout, repeatedly saying that she recognized that people had varying political views, but that she was happy to serve him water on this day, and hoped the rest of it would be pleasant. Apparently believing he had successfully educated the young lady, this guy posts a video of the encounter on YouTube--never realizing just how much of a jerk he came across as being. Turns out he was a VP in a pretty prestigious company. Was. Within a day he was fired. He didn't represent their values, you see. In the mean time, the minor got to appear on some pretty cool talk shows, and kept her professionalism--taught by Chick Fil-A--throughout them all. The private company's firing of the jerk was its exercise of free speech. We're never protected from embarrassing our employers.

I think we all long to live in Zion. That desire is implanted and nurtured in us by the kingdom of God, aka the Restored Church. But I do believe as a philosophical p oint that we are living in the time and the situation when we can learn what we need to learn. In some ways, we are not yet fit to dwell in Zion. If we could magically be transported back to the Nephite era of 50-100 AD, we might be dismayed to find that we don't feel what we thought we would. Cultural issues aside (and I'm sure that's why SSV said "born in 50 AD" rather than "transported to 50 AD"), I suspect most or all of us have personal or spiritual or other issues that would keep us from enjoying that Zion as we should. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty confident I do. So maybe we really do belong where and when we are, and it's a merciful God working toward our ultimate benefit that has placed us in the here and now. That said, I share SSV's sentiment.

To continue the quote above: It seems that no one is calling upon the Lord and Ruler of Nations to pardon our national trangressions. Instead, blacks are demanding apologies, and whites are kneeling before black people to absolve them of "systemic sins." Meanwhile conservatives are saying,"What sins?" In light of Washington's words, I wonder if, maybe, we're ALL missing something here. For Washington's noticeable acts of religious devotion: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/religion/8-facts-about-george-washington-and-religion/ https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/religion/george-washington-and-religion/ From his farewell address: Providence in that day and in such contexts did not refer to simple "luck" but the blessing of God. Often times, it was another name FOR God. No one at the time would have considered it to mean anything else.

Multiple general authorities, including Elder Bednar, have stated that partaking of the sacrament is a renewing of ALL covenants. I assume this includes temple covenants. So in this sense temple worship has not ceased. Also, we ourselves are temples. I think this means, at least in part, that what takes place in the temple can be reviewed in our minds and hearts which can still result in sacred experiences. Lastly, we are commanded to stand in holy places. Perhaps our focus right now should be on improving the holiness of places outside the temple.

Wait a minute. By definition, all diseases cause sickness, and almost all sometimes cause death. Yet we do not go to inordinate lengths to avoid catching diseases in general. We realize that diseases are an unavoidable part of life. We don't want to live our lives inside a plastic bubble, so we accept the risk inherent with living and breathing. In the very recent past, people would often expose their young children to the so-called childhood diseases to give them immunity. How is today fundamentally different from that? What happened to "flatten the curve"? A few months ago, we were all carefully lectured to so that we would understand that catching this infection was ultimately unavoidable. The whole "flatten the curve" effort was to keep so many people from catching it at once that the hospitals would be overrun and people who needed respirators would die without them. Right? Am I misremembering? Pretty sure I am not. And the curve has been flattened. So whence this terror of getting sick? If getting the flu were inevitable, and the alternative to getting the flu now were to sit at home as much as possible, always wear a mask whenever interacting in public, skip Church for months on end. and watch our economy go quickly to pot, then you bet I would intentionally go get the flu. Because it's inevitable. Remember? Inevitable. That means you're going to get it eventually. The only way to avoid that is to take outrageous precautions and seriously increase intrusive government intervention into our lives (and even that is doomed ultimately to failure). Over the decades and centuries, men have died in battle to preserve our freedoms. If we are so pathetically cowardly that we accept the loss of our liberties and the ravaging of our economy and of society itself in hopes of living a little longer than we otherwise might, then we deserve the slavery that will result. Yes, I think licking a toilet seat is stupid. What does that have to do with the general idea of "get sick, get over it, and increase the herd immunity so we can get back to living normally"?

So, this was the 50 lb melon. Looks pretty ripe to me. The stuff at the very center was as sweet as candy. Volume of super sweet area was about the size of an eggplant. Beyond that, it was still pretty sweet, like soda. I really didn't have a full appreciation of the size of a 50 lbs watermelon. We took it to a luncheon today with about 25 people. I was thinking that people would want four or five pieces. Nope. Just one. A few people had two. It was just a side dish. We only ate about 1/3 of the melon total. I took half the melon over to my friend's house. He says he LOVES watermelon. On my way home from his house, he had to call me on my phone to exclaim that this was the sweetest melon he had ever eaten. And it was also the juiciest. BTW, some people complain that some super sweet melons sacrifice the characteristic melon flavor to achieve that sweetness. Not so in this case. It certainly had a full bodied taste. I just need to figure out how to stop watering at the right time. I believe that will decrease some of the water. I honestly thought it was too much water. As I cut into it, there was as much drippage as a turkey taken out of the roasting pot to be place on the cutting board for carving. And that was just cutting the discs. Then cutting the wedges created more water. And while eating individual pieces, there was more drippage. Definitely an outdoor eating melon. Was it worth the hype. Well, I suppose. But do I really want a 50 lb candy bar? No, but 50 lbs of soda around a party goes a long way. So, for most people, I think it may not be worth it. But if you have a large gathering, this melon would be worth it.

Art thou the only “Christian” in a forum full of Mormon heretics, and knowest not these things?

When we were kids, our neighbor lit up a rocket while having several other rockets hanging from his pants pocket. He knelt down to light the fuse and the sparks caused the rockets in his pocket to spark too... He ended up taking off his pants in the middle of the street before running for his life. We will never make him forget that day....

Fulfilled. Fulfilled. Fulfilled. I'm predicting he won't be re-elected. But this will work too. Fulfilled. Wrong person. I can see it now: But imagine how fashionable it would be.

I've made dozens of predictions, and so far, they've all failed, except for this one, made in March 2016. It's starting to get creepy, especially because of what comes next:

But the difference here is they were wrong

NEWS FLASH List Member Occupying Space In Another List Member's Mind No rental terms released yet 5 July 2020 (THP)—Mister @priesthoodpower of ThirdHour revealed Sunday evening that he was "occupying space" in the mind of another list member. There was no indication of rental or other financial agreements, leading some to speculate that his occupation of the mind was "rent-free". priesthoodpower has not yet responded to this allegation, but informed sources suggest that this CHAZ-like squatting may be in retribution for the brain space others have taken rent-free in priesthoodpower's own mind through the years. priesthoodpower expressed regret for this unauthorized occupation, tearfully proclaiming, "My apologies for occupying space in his mind." He then went on to speculate about the ill effects of his extralegal occupation, worrying that "Dude must not sleep well at night." The identity of the victim of priesthoodpower's mental occupation was not explicitly identified. Most who are close to the situation suspect he is referring to @pam, who functions as the list custodian and behind-the-scenes disciplinarian. One unnamed source disputed this, saying that the use of the noun "Dude" and the pronoun "his" clearly suggest a male victim. The unnamed source was quickly condemned by all involved as a blatant sexist. Nevertheless, the possibility of a male victim, while distasteful, withstands scrutiny. Some have suggested that @Just_A_Guy is the victim of priesthoodpower's occupation, while others point to @MormonGator. A few even suggest that, in an ironic twist, @Carborendum himself lies at the center of the controversy. A second anonymous source named @anatess2 as the real occupyee. When it was pointed out that anatess was in fact female, the source responded, "Well, yeah, but she watches MMA."

NEWS FLASH Notorious Blessingsist Proclaims That "Some People Are Better Than Others" "Virtue is not evenly distributed", infamous list member intimates 5 July 2020 (THP)—Early Sunday evening, Mister @Carborendum, long-time list member, was roundly excoriated for having implied that virtue was not evenly distributed among all living human beings. While not outright stating this, Carborendum claimed that "the true blessings and protection of the temple come from actual 'worship' while in the temple," an open dog whistle to the blessingsists. Going even further than this, Carborendum appeared to suggest quite openly that those who pay attention during temple sessions receive more benefits than those who sleep their way through. "I don't see why you would be arguing that to fall asleep during a session provides absolutely equal levels of benefits as someone who would be fully engaged during the process," Carborendum blustered upon cross-examination. Carborendum's tirade was interrupted by the cool rationality of Mister @priesthoodpower, who calmly observed, "Unless you are the one issuing out the blessings I think you shouldn't say who gets the 'true' blessings. This suggests that some people are better then others when everyone is at different levels and trying their best." Though priesthoodpower offered no actual evidence that "everyone is...trying their best," observers agreed that the statement is obviously true and practically a tautology. Carborendum has yet to respond, with rumors that he has gone into hiding to bury his shame and humiliation. This is a breaking story. THP will update as events progress.