Why is there a "crazy" switch with single adults in our faith?

[Ironhold]

5 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Other people aren't going to let go of the fact that you didn't go on a mission until you do.

I keep trying to let it go.

People keep throwing it in my face. 

It doesn't matter that I was spreading the gospel online before LDS.org was even fully operational. It doesn't matter that I've dealt with ministers, writers, and journalists of all stripes (including some fairly big names). It doesn't matter that I'm an openly religious person in a field where there aren't a whole lot of openly religious people. I never wore a name tag, and so far too many people don't care about anything else I've done. 

[Guest]

If you keep reminding people, they will continue to remember. You bring it up frequently here, which makes me think you must do so at least occassionally IRL, as well. I'm saying this frankly, but as a sister who thinks you deserve happiness as much as the next guy: talking too much about your grievances and feeling sorry for yourself will do you more harm in the eyes of females than not having gone on a mission. Be confident knowing that you made the best choices you could. Be proud of what you've done. Don't bring it up, and if people ask, simply say that life took you in another direction at that time (again, with confidence and a smile) and move on to something else. Don't define yourself by what you suppose people think about not having gone on a mission. The culture is changing, and I suspect they care less than you think, and would barely care at all if they felt your confidence in your choices.  

[Guest]

p.s. My dad didn't go on a mission, and he was one of the most beloved, good men that anyone in his circle of influence had the privilege to know. He was never apologetic about that fact, it was simply a detail of many in the history of his life that was of little consequence. He went about doing good and loving people and being happy, and that's how people thought/think of him, and always will. 

I'm sure there are a lot of girls worth having that know and love people like my dad.

 

Here's a great article on the topic that I hope you'll take the time to read, with an open heart.  Especially see #5:

Why Your Attitude is Everything

Edited March 17, 2016 by Eowyn

[Vagabond80]

"I do not know what kind of crack people are smoking to believe that serving a full time mission makes you marriage material when in reality it makes you very headstrong, opinionated and giddy over board games and disney songs.... eeeyuhk."

Bitter?  Nah just stating the obvious.  And quite possibly I think I just answered my own question about what makes people go crazy when plans for marriage fail to materialize.  The church and missionary work are seperate from human tendency to self glorification when involved in a "worthy" goal....  Anyone hear "the more doors you knock, the hotter your future wife will be?"....  Anyone here guilty of saying that? 

[Guest]

Bitterness and contempt are totally different, Vort. Right?

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Ironhold,

I also didn't go on a mission.  Also because of family health issues - my mom was declining (she died when I was 25) and I was a co-caregiver.  I also didn't really fit in church once I hit 18 1/2.  You've had grief that I haven't - because I basically went inactive for 6 years, and came back into activity quickly engaged to an LDS girl.  I avoided all the hemming and hawing you've put up with for so long.  I feel for you.  

Here's what did it for me: I honestly don't give a flying wet crap if people in my ward think I'm righteous or not.  This isn't a mere attitude to live by, it's a deeply held belief ingrained in my soul.  I counsel with, and take council from, my bishop and EQP.  Everyone else's opinion?  Well, it only has the relevance I give it.  There are people I consider wise/healthy/smart - I tend to value their opinion independently of whether they're LDS or not.  

Interestingly, this attitude of mine makes it much easier to be friendly around people on the opposite sides of a lot of fences.  I get along well with the crazies, the two liberals, the Birchers in our ward.  I even get along well with the guy who divorced his wife, left the church, and married another guy. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

not know what kind of crack people are smoking to believe that serving a full time mission makes you marriage material when in reality it makes you very headstrong, opinionated and giddy over board games and disney songs.... eeeyuhk.

My husband wants to know where you live, and if you've ever met people. He doesn't know of any guys in his EQ, RM or not, who are giddy over board games (except maybe Risk or Settlers of Catan, sometimes... and "giddy" isn't even the right word), and certainly none who even approach giddy over Disney songs. Tolerant, maybe, but not giddy.

[zil]

I begin to wonder if we haven't entered the Twilight Zone...

[Vort]

56 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Bitterness and contempt are totally different, Vort. Right?

Right. My bad.

[Guest]

On 3/15/2016 at 1:02 PM, Vagabond80 said:

...not ... a bitter rant, because it isn't.  Noooooo, no, no... insight and ...theraputic release

straight up weird and desperate.  expressing ... sadness ... deep, bitter regret ... raving lunatics...straight up cray cray?  

guilt trip me into dating ... she started to scream, cry and stomp...  sobbed ... for a whole hour.  straight up psycho ...and an attempt to get me fired from my job.... 

adorkable ... quirky is better than boring.

I'm not trying to lampoon anyone

... human train wrecks...completely nuts

there is something wrong with me for having had anything to do with these people.  

...my experiences are not just unique to the church...

Horrified and confused.

 

You do know what "lampoon" means, right?

Sobbed for a whole hour?  Really?  A whole hour?

If it's not unique to the church why the OP and title of this thread?

[NightSG]

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If it's not unique to the church why the OP and title of this thread?

I know an Atheist who puts shredded carrots in lime Jello.  Just because the Church doesn't have a total monopoly on certain things doesn't mean it's not hogging a lot more than its fair share of the crazy single women.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, NightSG said:

hogging a lot more than its fair share of the crazy single women.

And immature men, from what I've seen. 

For instance, take my niece who is quite well-adjusted, self-sufficient, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 years old. She's attractive, of a healthy weight, etc. She has not been able to find a guy who is willing to let go of the bachelor life and get married. She's on her 3rd serious (as in close to marriage) relationship. The last two pulled out because they just weren't "ready for marriage" at 30 years old. The current one she's stuck with for much, much longer than I would have (years, not months) and he's still trying to be "ready" for marriage, though he clearly loves her. 

Maybe there are girls who are what you would classify as crazy, but I'd say it's even worse that there are a clear lack of guys willing to grow up and move on into adulthood. 

[omegaseamaster75]

15 hours ago, Ironhold said:

As a mid-single?

I'm single because when I was growing up, stake leadership drummed "All young men must go on a mission, and any young man who does not go on a mission is not worthy to be a husband and father" into the heads of as many people as they could. 

I stayed home because my family needed help caring for a mentally ill relative. 

Sure enough, I never got a second look from anyone in the stake. I never went, and so I wasn't worthy. At most, I'd get stuck in the "friend" zone and that would be it. 

Am I bitter about that? Better believe it. I'm basically being punished because I decided to put others ahead of myself. I haven't had a date in 10+ years, and that was with a woman who was from another stake (things didn't work out due to an error on my part, unfortunately). At this point, I have better odds of a random anime girl coming out of my TV than of getting a real-life girlfriend who's in my age bracket. 

I only focused on one thing in your post, all the whining was just background noise to me. Really I can narrow it down to one word ANIME.

You are a mid single, at this point your reasons for not serving are no one's business, I happen to think that you made the right decision for yourself at the right time. Lets check off some boxes and see why you're struggling finding an eternal companion

1. Current temple recommend holder? While not an absolute it is a key indicator of worthiness

2. Education? You have taken the time to prepare yourself for life right?

3. With no wife can we assume that you have dutifully pursued a career, make a good living are debt free, own a home, drive a nice car,  etc. etc?

4. You are cultured right? Enjoy the arts, know how to dance (girls love guys who can dance), can eat at a nice restaurant without looking like a caveman?

5. You take care of yourself physically? not to fat? well groomed and dress nice?

6. Lastly I will address the Anime thingy, my understanding is that this is japanese cartoon stuff, I lump this with role playing games and other silly childish stuff. KNOCK IT OFF. You are a grown man act like one. 

Ok I am ready for it guys, all the exceptions will come out and say "well my wife likes anime also" or "we play D&D together" this is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

If you do all these things and women aren't lined up to marry you ....guess what...it's you not them. See a therapist. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[omegaseamaster75]

15 hours ago, Ironhold said:

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[omegaseamaster75]

15 hours ago, Ironhold said:

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[Vort]

13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I only focused on one thing in your post, all the whining was just background noise to me. Really I can narrow it down to one word AMINE.

[Guest]

Chemistry has made quite a showing at lds.net this week. 

[Vagabond80]

Hi Eowyn...

 "My husband wants to know where you live, and if you've ever met people. He doesn't know of any guys in his EQ, RM or not, who are giddy over board games (except maybe Risk or Settlers of Catan, sometimes... and "giddy" isn't even the right word), and certainly none who even approach giddy over Disney songs. Tolerant, maybe, but not giddy."

Well....

" Also I am currently living in Honolulu, "

Its in the thread.  Here it doesn't happen.  But I've seen my fair share in Utah and California at the Singles Wards over there.... 

[NeuroTypical]

13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I only focused on one thing in your post, all the whining was just background noise to me. Really I can narrow it down to one word AMINE.

6. Lastly I will address the Amine thingy, my understanding is that this is japanese cartoon stuff, I lump this with role playing games and other silly childish stuff. KNOCK IT OFF. You are a grown man act like one. 

Ok I am ready for it guys, all the exceptions will come out and say "well my wife likes amine also" or "we play D&D together" this is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

Ok, omega bro, I totally appreciate the good wisdom and intents that motivated you to make such a post.  But I gotta let you know buddy, you're living in the previous decade.  There is a cultural shift happening, and unlike other cultural shifts, it's jumping generations.  It's nothing to be concerned about.  I'm in my 40's, and enjoying the heck out of anime.  (Like, the word "animation" abbreviated.)  Plenty of family-friendly stuff out there.  Some of it is breathtakingly beautiful.  Some of it expands my understanding of the human soul.  I mean yes, a lot of it is crap and scantily-clad nonsense, but much is not. 

Last decade this stuff was the exception not the rule.  Every year that goes by, it's more and more the rule.  

Go find out what your kid's friends are into.  It might surprise you.

[estradling75]

It is totally understandable that the church would teach and encourage singles (men and women) to pick as a spouse someone that will be faithful and true.  It simply makes sense on to many levels for them not to.

The problem is that it is asking the singles to predict the future.  There is all kinds of problem with trying to predict the future, but none the less it is our lot in life.  The best bet we have is revelation, but God respects agency and this life is designed to test us and to challenge us.  So it is possible that a spousal crisis of faith is part of our test.

And even with revelation... we are commanded to study it out. (Yes that means we need to study out our potential spouses faithfulness)... the best indicator that we flawed mortals have of predicting future behavior is past behavior.   It is not a perfect indicator, because people can change (repentance or succumbing to temptation)

So if people are evaluating a future spouse based on past behavior (And we have to) then for young men a mission is a big and easy mark to check for.  Its not a perfect mark (and some people might erroneously think it is) but its lack should raise more questions.  Its possible that there are good answers to those questions.

It is also totally reasonable for a person to have certain traits they "personally" are going to require of a spouse.  Everyone else might think those traits are unwise but if it is important to to a person then it is important to that person...  If a person can say they want to marry a "blonde", then it is equally true a person could say they want to marry a "Return Missionary."  No matter how this might make the Non Blondes or Non Return Missionaries feel about it

 

 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Ok, omega bro, I totally appreciate the good wisdom and intents that motivated you to make such a post.  But I gotta let you know buddy, you're living in the previous decade.  There is a cultural shift happening, and unlike other cultural shifts, it's jumping generations.  It's nothing to be concerned about.  I'm in my 40's, and enjoying the heck out of anime.  (Like, the word "animation" abbreviated.)  Plenty of family-friendly stuff out there.  Some of it is breathtakingly beautiful.  Some of it expands my understanding of the human soul.  I mean yes, a lot of it is crap and scantily-clad nonsense, but much is not. 

Last decade this stuff was the exception not the rule.  Every year that goes by, it's more and more the rule.  

Go find out what your kid's friends are into.  It might surprise you.

There's enjoying it, and there's enjoying it to the exclusion of all else. 

My nephew (I have a huge family) is in his mid-20's and when he's not playing Pokemon and going to Pokemon tournaments, he's working a minimum wage job to pay for his Pokemon things and Pokemon events. Marriage isn't even on his radar, let alone the horizon.

[NeedleinA]

4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

I keep trying to let it go.

Keep trying brother, keep trying and hang in there.

Going on a mission is wonderful, but is not guarantee of anything. The opposite is the same too. Two people instantly come to my mind. One of my best friends, our current Ward Mission Leader. He never went. He has been a bishop 2 times, High Council probably 3 times, etc. He went into the military instead. Wonderful guy! My uncle, who I just spoke today. Temple worker in Redlands, CA. Solid as a rock. 

If you keep finding brainwashed sisters who "only" avoid you because of this single issue, simply try looking else where. A wonderful recent convert might fit nicely too. 

[Guest MormonGator]

 

13 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Keep trying brother, keep trying and hang in there.

Going on a mission is wonderful, but is not guarantee of anything. The opposite is the same too. Two people instantly come to my mind. One of my best friends, our current Ward Mission Leader. He never went. He has been a bishop 2 times, High Council probably 3 times, etc. He went into the military instead. Wonderful guy! My uncle, who I just spoke today. Temple worker in Redlands, CA. Solid as a rock. 

If you keep finding brainwashed sisters who "only" avoid you because of this single issue, simply try looking else where. A wonderful recent convert might fit nicely too. 

Needle, you knocked it out of the park with this one. 

So true. So, so true. 
 

[Vagabond80]

Hey Carborendum....

Scuse me... I want to make sure I answer your questions... I mean you're calling me out on a public forum.... can't back down can I?

On 3/15/2016 at 8:02 AM, Vagabond80 said:

...not ... a bitter rant, because it isn't.  Noooooo, no, no... insight and ...theraputic release

straight up weird and desperate.  expressing ... sadness ... deep, bitter regret ... raving lunatics...straight up cray cray?  

guilt trip me into dating ... she started to scream, cry and stomp...  sobbed ... for a whole hour.  straight up psycho ...and an attempt to get me fired from my job.... 

adorkable ... quirky is better than boring.

I'm not trying to lampoon anyone

... human train wrecks...completely nuts

there is something wrong with me for having had anything to do with these people.  

...my experiences are not just unique to the church...

Horrified and confused.

 

You do know what "lampoon" means, right- Ummm pretty sure.  But in case you don't here's the link...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/lampooned

Reading that, please review your questions...... did I NAME anyone in particular?  Also ahem....

If it's not unique to the church why the OP and title of this thread?

I never said it was unique to this church... If you READ my post.. not even carefully I mean its right at the end I said.... 

"Also I am currently living in Honolulu, and from what I've heard my experiences are not just unique to the church... but it seems like there is a large number of slightly "off" people who come here."

However, the topic was about what is driving women in my single's branch here in Honolulu to do such straight up strange things?  If it was one incident that's one thing... if it happens twice, ok, whatever... 3 times?  Well it can be expected... but straight up 6 or 7?  And from different individuals???   Tell me you wouldn't be scratching your head.  Hence the request at the very end for...

  "Any insights, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated."

Sobbed for a whole hour?  Really?  A whole hour?

A whole hour?  Ok, maybe that's not accurate... it was sobbing, broken up by lamenting which lead to more crying which at at times lead to even more sobbing... for exactly 70 minutes and 45 seconds....  Yes that's right I timed it.  When people are looking around and employees are starting to lean over and look because they think you're being abusive... you start getting nervous and looking at your watch.  Why did I stay you ask... for the same reason I stay... I had hurt her, and she deserved closure.  And after that she still let herself get offended and went as far as to threaten me with a lawsuit for emotional abuse, go to the police and file charges for libel when I confronted her about lies she had told me about her previous leaders and other members she had known in other branches, and tried to shame me on Social Media kinda like you're trying to do right now....... 

Carborendum, if you're smart enough to use a computer you comprehend the importance of reading a post on an online forum before putting in your two cents....  I can see from your snippy little comments you at least ermm "skimmed".  But yeah I went there with the whole name calling, blah, blah, blah... you gotta put this hater back in his place.  So good for you.  Great job, you SURE showed me didn't you?  "Clap, clap, clap"....

Now........Here's your change.....

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Vagabond80

[NeuroTypical]

32 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

There's enjoying it, and there's enjoying it to the exclusion of all else. 

My nephew (I have a huge family) is in his mid-20's and when he's not playing Pokemon and going to Pokemon tournaments, he's working a minimum wage job to pay for his Pokemon things and Pokemon events. Marriage isn't even on his radar, let alone the horizon.

Totally agree.  I was talking to a Christian young men's counselor the other day, he was sharing the sorts of kids he runs into.  They find their online worlds more engaging than reality.  Why date when you can create your own wife online?  Why get a job when you can be rich on Sims?  Why exert effort to overcome obstacles and succeed at great things, when you've already done that, saved the universe, and unlocked secret level 48?  Why have real friends, when you have 300 on Facebook?

Excesses like this are ruining people's lives.  If the OP is gaming more than trying to be around humanity, he's got a problem.  But he hasn't really given any such indication - remember - omega zeroed in on one word and used it to paint a picture.  Not sure it's warranted or not.

Anyway, people are starting to meet each other and get married at Pokemon events, and Comic Cons, etc.  For every weird thing (anime, furries, Dr. Who fanfic writers, Pokemon enthusaists, Marvel Avenger roleplayers, bronies, etc), you can find an LDS-specific group of those people.  (Or, at least a family friendly SFW group.)

And for that matter, consider this odd passion we all share of going online every day to lds.net and talking with people we know very well, even though we've never met.  

Edited March 17, 2016 by NeuroTypical