Serviteur du seigneur

Will i have dificulties trying to find a girl at BYU if i didn't serve a mission ?

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From what they tell me, you will have no problem finding girls to be offended at, because they prioritize landing a returned missionary.  But from what they also tell me, there are some girls who may give you a chance.

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32 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Self explained question.

You will have trouble finding a righteous daughter of God if you yourself are not righteous. Did you not serve a mission cause you didn’t want to or you committed a grievous sin? or did you not serve a mission for a justifiable reason (medical/physical limitations as prescribed by the church prior to applying to serve)?

If a mission is still an option for you, you should do it.
 

But if not, and you didn’t avoid serving a mission, there will be plenty of young women interested in Dating you

Edited by Fether

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Almost fifty percent of the BYU student population is female. There are enough women there to choke a thousand horses. You will have no problem whatsoever finding a girl at BYU.

Now, whether or not she'll go out with you is another matter. That depends on things like friendliness and dedication to principle. Being good-looking doesn't hurt, or so I'm told.

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50 minutes ago, Fether said:

You will have trouble finding a righteous daughter of God if you yourself are not righteous. Did you not serve a mission cause you didn’t want to or you committed a grievous sin? or did you not serve a mission for a justifiable reason (medical/physical limitations as prescribed by the church prior to applying to serve)?

If a mission is still an option for you, you should do it.
 

But if not, and you didn’t avoid serving a mission, there will be plenty of young women interested in Dating you

Not serving a mission makes me not righteous ? Sometimes people tell me these things like i'll be damned forever for that.

I still didn't serve because i was not born in the church, my parents screamed at me when i mentioned it, and they wont pay for that, and i fully depend on them. I also have vitiligo (condition that makes the skin extremely sensible to the sun rays) and asperger( though it has been treated with lots of therapy, so im totally normal normal).

I was advised by some members that i should just get married because time is going on and although the majority of people puts more importance to a mission than a marriage (its what it seems), i have been always told and i have read in the church literacy that the marriage is truly what matters in this life towards exaltation.

Are girls in the church really not looking at other qualities other than serving a mission ? Because sometimes i think thats the reason i cant find girls in stakes and institute.

I have so many qualities like, i do speak 4 languages fluently, i finished two bachelor's at the same time and i could go on to my masters in much better universities than BYU if i wanted. But i was always told that i should go there because there might be better chances.

I am extremely gentle, never scream, always treat girls like queens, but whenever they hear i didn't serve a mission, i suddenly become a sir worthless.

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Would it be worth to go to BYU idaho just to get married ? I say just to get married because another bachelor's for me would be almost useless. I have seen more people marry at BYU i than in provo but the quality of education is much lower, i dont know if it would be worth the risk. And girls around those idaho towns really look more pretty, some of those probably came from nordic and celtic countries haha

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I wonder when serving a mission became so important that automatically makes someone who didn't serve one be a forever unworthy member. Because i looked it up on the internet and several apostles and prophets didn't serve.

Would these girls not date the prophet nelson ?

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@Serviteur du seigneur, if you already have a Bacholor's why not simply move to a more heavily-LDS populated area?  You could theoretically even just move to UT.  

No need to go for another degree if it doesn't benefit you.  Also, I'm guessing that you're a fair bit older than a lot of the BYU-attendees.  

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57 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Sometimes people tell me these things like i'll be damned forever for that.

I haven’t met anyone in my life that truly believes that, so lucky for you that isn’t a concept that came from Utah or Idaho.

 

57 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Are girls in the church really not looking at other qualities other than serving a mission ? Because sometimes i think thats the reason i cant find girls in stakes and institute.

I have so many qualities like, i do speak 4 languages fluently, i finished two bachelor's at the same time and i could go on to my masters in much better universities than BYU if i wanted. But i was always told that i should go there because there might be better chances.

I am extremely gentle, never scream, always treat girls like queens, but whenever they hear i didn't serve a mission, i suddenly become a sir worthless.

You have to understand something. A girl who grows up striving to be Obedient sacrificing what is expect for the cause of Christ expects the same out of who she will marry. We all have to make sacrifices to serve God, some harder than others.

A strong work ethic is great, but it does not make up for a slack on obedience to God, which is an essential trait we must all have.

And you will be going to a school where nearly every guy has the same traits you are boasting about.

You can’t be mad when a fantastic, righteous girl finds you unattractive when she learns you didn’t follow the prophets commandment you prepare to serve a mission.

That being said, I am sure there are plenty of wonderful girls at either school that you would find compatible, just don’t go their raging every time someone turns you down due to your lack of mission experience, especially if you are still an age where a mission is possible (younger than 26).
 

You need to find someone who you are equally yoked with spiritually, that of course means that due to your refusal to serve a mission, there will be girls there that are ahead of you spiritually and won’t date you simply cause she would drag you Behind her spiritually. And don’t misinterpret me here, I served an honorable full mission and there are still women that are ahead of me spiritually that wouldn't date me.

To really be over this frustrating experience you are having, I would suggest applying to serve a full mission. Let the lord decide if you are physically able.

33 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I wonder when serving a mission became so important that automatically makes someone who didn't serve one be a forever unworthy member. Because i looked it up on the internet and several apostles and prophets didn't serve.

Would these girls not date the prophet nelson ?

And to clarify something, it wasn’t till the 70s (I believe) that it was expected for all young men to serve missions. So yes they would. It isn’t a matter of serving a mission, it’s a matter of obedience.

“The question has been often asked, Is the mission program one of compulsion? And the answer, of course, is no. Everyone is given his free agency. The question is asked: Should every young man fill a mission? And the answer of the Church is yes, and the answer of the Lord is yes. Enlarging this answer we say: Certainly every male member of the Church should fill a mission, like he should pay his tithing, like he should attend his meetings, like he should keep his life clean and free from the ugliness of the world and plan a celestial marriage in the temple of the Lord” (Spencer W. Kimball, “Planning for a Full and Abundant Life”, Ensign, May 1974, 86).

 

So to answer your question, yes they would marry them.

Edited by Fether

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43 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Would it be worth to go to BYU idaho just to get married ? I say just to get married because another bachelor's for me would be almost useless. I have seen more people marry at BYU i than in provo but the quality of education is much lower, i dont know if it would be worth the risk. And girls around those idaho towns really look more pretty, some of those probably came from nordic and celtic countries haha

And I would add that no, going to BYU t get married is not a bad thing. Marriage is a worth while thing to pursue. Though I do believe there are cheaper options. Try some of the Latter-day Saint dating sites/apps. Honestly no shame in that.

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

And I would add that no, going to BYU t get married is not a bad thing. Marriage is a worth while thing to pursue. Though I do believe there are cheaper options. Try some of the Latter-day Saint dating sites/apps. Honestly no shame in that.

I've tried. The answer was most of the time of an astonishing ignorance such as " RM or Bust". It seems like my only last hope to marry a girl from the church is to go to one of the church schools where there is aglomeration of people dating. But i'm afraid i might not find the girl, so i would have spent time and money for nothing

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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My recommendation would be don't force the issue. Put yourself out there? Yes. But focus more on being the kind of person a righteous young woman would want to be with and put your efforts into developing friendships. If a girl gets to know the real you and not just your "resume" she is more likely to look past your not having served a mission when you ask her out. 

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6 minutes ago, laronius said:

My recommendation would be don't force the issue. Put yourself out there? Yes. But focus more on being the kind of person a righteous young woman would want to be with and put your efforts into developing friendships. If a girl gets to know the real you and not just your "resume" she is more likely to look past your not having served a mission when you ask her out. 

Im thinking about opening a instagram account and posting pictures of volunteer work there. Your text made me give this some more thought.

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2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

@Serviteur du seigneur, if you already have a Bacholor's why not simply move to a more heavily-LDS populated area?  You could theoretically even just move to UT.  

No need to go for another degree if it doesn't benefit you.  Also, I'm guessing that you're a fair bit older than a lot of the BYU-attendees.  

Not a US citizen. But i do have permament residency of the french speaking part of your friend up north.

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Guess il just try it out as a last attempt. If it does not happen in a place such as a church school, it wouldn't probably happen anywhere else. So if it fails, would be wise to start dating some girls from outside of the church and try to drag them in. Thats the best strategy in the worst scenario, at least i would have paid a low tuition for a good master.

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2 hours ago, Fether said:

You have to understand something. A girl who grows up striving to be Obedient sacrificing what is expect for the cause of Christ expects the same out of who she will marry. We all have to make sacrifices to serve God, some harder than others.

 

Its easy to grow up "striving to sacrifice" when you were born in the church and the support is all around you, coming from all of your family.

But what about those who leave their long religious family traditions in a rural town that doesn't really like members of the church, loses most contact with their relatives and friends, become a lonely person, and is frequently bullied because of his faith.

Cause i went through all of that and worse sir. I am a pionner. i can guarantee to you that my faith is much greater than many of these so called more advanced spiritually girls than i. And the lord above knows that.

Unfortunately, this culture of serving a mission is blinding the girls eye's so they can't see beyond this very good service.

I didn't serve because i dont want to go out there and get skin cancer in 3 months due to my condition, i would die and would not have fulfilled my purpose on this earth which is to get sealed. This is almost suicide, but if i survive this, how will i be a good provider for my family without a good education that i couldn't have paid without my parents that didn't allow me to serve ?

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@Serviteur du seigneur, have you tried to empathize with some of the women who you feel have rejected you because of your RM status?  Have you tried to consider what qualities they are looking for in a mate, how an RM status may suggest the presence or absence of those qualities, and how—in the absence of missionary service—you can show that you still have those relevant qualities?

Pardon my saying so, but a lot of your posts make me wonder to what degree you approach females as fellow human beings to be approached and respected on their own terms, rather than just creatures (preferably Nordic/Celtic in breed!) to be obtained (not for the purpose of creating a lasting bond, but as a check mark on the list to exaltation) with the expectation that thereafter they should comply in perpetuity with your own norms of what is and isn’t “rational” behavior and decision-making (and whose conformance might appropriately be maintained through the judicious use of shaming and guilt trips).

My experience is that LDS women want to be respected, they want to be understood.  They want someone who can connect with others in a meaningful, long-term, intimate and functional partnership.  They want someone stable.  They want someone who will honor his priesthood duties at great personal inconvenience.  They want someone who has proven he can competently handle the storms and setbacks of life, roll with the punches, and bounce back and move forward to the next challenge.  They want someone who can live on a budget.  They want someone who can and will keep working through physical and spiritual exhaustion.  They want a reliable provider—if you’ve got two bachelor’s degrees and still don’t have a full-time job, they want to know why.  They want to know that if they quit their jobs to have a baby—and maybe choose not to re-enter the workforce—that their man will keep bringing home a sustainable income.  They want someone who exudes material, physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual independence.  A mission on one’s resume suggests that a young man has had a chance to cultivate all of those qualities; and if you can’t or won’t get that particular experience—you’d better be ready to show that you’ve acquired those qualities through some other means.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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@Serviteur du seigneur, here is my advice for you:

Chill.

Some girls will not want to date you. Others will happily date you. Of that second group, some will be interested in pursuing a further relationship, possibly even exploring marriage. Just be kind and solicitous. Live your religion.

If you look for bad behavior such as discrimination based on RM status, you are sure to find it—even if it is not really there. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So quit focusing on the wrong things. Just be yourself and enjoy the experience. Dating is fun, or should be. Experience it.

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42 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

@Serviteur du seigneur, have you tried to empathize with some of the women who you feel have rejected you because of your RM status?  Have you tried to consider what qualities they are looking for in a mate, how an RM status may suggest the presence or absence of those qualities, and how—in the absence of missionary service—you can show that you still have those relevant qualities?

Pardon my saying so, but a lot of your posts make me wonder to what degree you approach females as fellow human beings to be approached and respected on their own terms, rather than just creatures (preferably Nordic/Celtic in breed!) to be obtained (not for the purpose of creating a lasting bond, but as a check mark on the list to exaltation) with the expectation that thereafter they should comply in perpetuity with your own norms of what is and isn’t “rational” behavior and decision-making (and whose conformance might appropriately be maintained through the judicious use of shaming and guilt trips).

My experience is that LDS women want to be respected, they want to be understood.  They want someone who can connect with others in a meaningful, long-term, intimate and functional partnership.  They want someone stable.  They want someone who will honor his priesthood duties at great personal inconvenience.  They want someone who has proven he can competently handle the storms and setbacks of life, roll with the punches, and bounce back and move forward to the next challenge.  They want someone who can live on a budget.  They want someone who can and will keep working through physical and spiritual exhaustion.  They want a reliable provider—if you’ve got two bachelor’s degrees and still don’t have a full-time job, they want to know why.  They want to know that if they quit their jobs to have a baby—and maybe choose not to re-enter the workforce—that their man will keep bringing home a sustainable income.  They want someone who exudes material, physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual independence.  A mission on one’s resume suggests that a young man has had a chance to cultivate all of those qualities; and if you can’t or won’t get that particular experience—you’d better be ready to show that you’ve acquired those qualities through some other means.

I ve always have had a thing for redheads and nordic girls, but thats just a simple preference, my decision to date a girl goes far beyond that. To me, the girls dont want the experience and qualities that a mission brings, they simply want the guy to have served, i think it became something cultural, it would be a shame for their families if she married a guy who didn't serve.

The common first question to date someone on church apps is "RM or bust", you dont get a chance to say who you are and what are your strenghs and stuff. If they only could give me the opportunity to tell them more about me, they would see that i'm just as faithfull as a RM, they would know all sacrifices i had to make to join the church, the courage i had to have to join the church even under threats of my parents, they would know i am a pioneer.

In short, guys who didn't serve are not having the opportunity to date and tell more of themselves due to a seemingly culture that's being raised about missions, ive seen things on the facebook of these girls such as "fifth generation of missionaries",  and they keep their tag name to be placed by the side of husband's RM tag.

Its like they would feel ashamed to date a guy who doesn't hold one of those tag names at home.

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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35 minutes ago, Vort said:

@Serviteur du seigneur, here is my advice for you:

Chill.

Some girls will not want to date you. Others will happily date you. Of that second group, some will be interested in pursuing a further relationship, possibly even exploring marriage. Just be kind and solicitous. Live your religion.

If you look for bad behavior such as discrimination based on RM status, you are sure to find it—even if it is not really there. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So quit focusing on the wrong things. Just be yourself and enjoy the experience. Dating is fun, or should be. Experience it.

I know Vort. I'm just afraid that there might not be space for guys who didn't serve like me. I'm already going for my last attempt, that might be in the Y. Thats the easiest place for a lds to get married, if it doesn't happen there, i might just stop thinking about this.

 

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It is never whether you served a mission or not and always WHY you served a mission or not. 

I'm a girl so I can kinda guess what most girls will do... it's like a resume - you submit a resume to an employer and it doesn't have the basic qualification written on the want-ad saying you're a return missionary, most girls will not bother to ask why, they'll just set aside that application and put more focus on the other applicants.  If you're in BYU, there are a lot of applicants.  So, chances are, your resume is not going to get focus unless you got something in that resume that stands out among other applicants (being good looking, as @Vort has said, or driving a Lamborghini is one of the advantages).

But that just gets you in the door.  The other qualities of applicants start to get considered the more the girl starts to get to know you.  But if you've reached this stage, you also get the chance to let the girl know the WHY of things to prove to the girl you're worth spending the rest of her life with and raising a family with which could then put you far above the good looking or Lamborghini-driving competition.

So, anyway, choosing BYU as your battlefield can be both advantageous and disadvantageous.  The number of girls worthy to spend the rest of your life with is plenty.  But the number of applicants worthy for the girls to spend the rest of their lives with are also plenty so you'll have tons of competition just to catch somebody's attention.

The Singles Ward would be a better battlefield - not as many girls, but also not as many competition.  And the setting lends to you becoming personal and being able to express the WHY of things to all the girls before you send out your applications.

Good luck on your endeavors.

If the Y or the Singles Ward doesn't pan out.... there are tons of LDS women in the Philippines that would put the possibility of obtaining a US green card high up on the applicants list, even higher than "good looking".  ;)

 

Edited by anatess2

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10 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Its like they would feel ashamed to date a guy who doesn't hold one of those tag names at home.

I would think you wouldn't want to consider a woman who thinks this way as an eternal companion anyway.  Maybe you could be grateful that they are removing themselves as options for you.

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17 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Self explained question.

I have a rental property in Provo just south of the BYU campus that I rent to male students.  Lately the students have been primarily engineering students.   One of my longer term tenets is completing his PHD in Chemical Engineering.  He is tall, smart, a returned missionary and good looking.  He has several job offers for over 200K.  But for all his time at BYU he had difficulty dating a serious young lady.  He told me that mostly ladies like "hanging out" but - according to him - are ditsy and immature. 

I have a granddaughter at BYU that is also a returned missionary - talking to her and her roommates - they say the same thing about the men at BYU.  Somewhere there is a disconnect.  I do not understand what all has happened but BYU is not the happy dear hunting ground that it was when I was at BYU and found my eternal mate in a field of thousands possibilities. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I have a rental property in Provo just south of the BYU campus that I rent to male students.  Lately the students have been primarily engineering students.   One of my longer term tenets is completing his PHD in Chemical Engineering.  He is tall, smart, a returned missionary and good looking.  He has several job offers for over 200K.  But for all his time at BYU he had difficulty dating a serious young lady.  He told me that mostly ladies like "hanging out" but - according to him - are ditsy and immature. 

I have a granddaughter at BYU that is also a returned missionary - talking to her and her roommates - they say the same thing about the men at BYU.  Somewhere there is a disconnect.  I do not understand what all has happened but BYU is not the happy dear hunting ground that it was when I was at BYU and found my eternal mate in a field of thousands possibilities. 

 

The Traveler

Yeah things are hard nowadays. Im starting to think that happens because everyone is looking for the "perfect one" and just not considering that we all have missing points in our lives. I mean, back in time people were really less selective, and i feel technology is deeply involved with that.

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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19 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I know Vort. I'm just afraid that there might not be space for guys who didn't serve like me. I'm already going for my last attempt, that might be in the Y. That's the easiest place for a lds to get married, if it doesn't happen there, i might just stop thinking about this.

I'm having trouble believing the details of what you're saying.  I'm sure that the overall story is correct.  But your interpretation of the details simply don't make sense.  I'm NOT saying that you're lying.  I do believe you've incorrectly interpreted things, or you're giving an incomplete account.

(I also agree with @Jane_Doe about going to school again.  That makes no sense. Just move to a higher-density LDS-ville.)

I don't know why anyone would say "nope" simply because you didn't go on a mission.  Sure, one or two.  But ALL?  How many?  All two of them?  If you didn't go because you were a waste or unrighteous, then, I could see some people wondering about some things.

In saying so, I want to state that "past sins that are fully repented of shouldn't be held against anyone."  However, some additional baggage that comes with certain sins (like you got a girl pregnant and have a baby "Serviteur" running around) may not be something that a girl wants to deal with.

If you explain that you were a convert and did not have the support of your parents to go on a mission, some may believe that you're in earnest.  But some would question why you didn't work hard and pay for the mission yourself?  Many (and I do say MANY) people do that.  So, why didn't you?

The bottom line is that whatever your answer to that question is will be very telling.  If you simply couldn't because you really couldn't, then most girls will accept it and decide whether you are worth it as you are.  But if your overall story as to why you skipped it sounds wishy-washy, then they might think that they don't want a wishy-washy man to marry.  They want a strong man who knows how to work, to serve, and to honor his priesthood. 

  • If your reason/excuse sounds like you aren't that kind of man, then why would they want to marry you?
  • If your reason/excuse sounds like you really did all you could, but it just didn't happen, then many women would be more than happy to marry you.

Have you ever considered that some women may not want to marry you because they don't want to deal with anti-Mormon in-laws?

EDIT: I just read Vort's post in the other thread

42 minutes ago, Vort said:

No. Culture certainly plays a part, but this is not primarily a matter of culture. It's a matter of finding a proxy to measure the fitness of a mate. You cannot look into a person's soul and determine who and what he is, just as you cannot look into a person's future and see how much money or how many children or what other attainments he might gain. Those things are invisible to the eye. So instead, you have to go with things that ARE visible to the eye. That is, you must use proxies.

...

Latter-day Saint women are susceptible to all of these proxies, though perhaps not quite so much as many other young women. But LDS women look for another measure: Commitment to the kingdom of God. Of all the proxies yet mentioned, this one seems the least objectionable. But, of course, such commitment is invisible and requires its own proxy to try to ascertain.

...

Ask about missions, that's what. Though missionary service is not any kind of perfectly reliable proxy, it's better than nothing. At the least, it shows that the young man tried to fulfill his duty to God. It doesn't tell whether he did it out of a sense of obligation, a love for his fellow man, or a promise his parents made him to buy him a car when he got home, but it's something.

I find this somewhat in line with what I was saying.  So, here's the game plan.

If a girl asks about your mission, then figure out a way to tell about your conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ.  Bear your testimony in story form.  Let your testimony ooze out of every pore.

One cannot hope to have a good missionary without some good converts.  They go hand-in-hand.  Tell her how much you appreciated the missionaries that you had in your life.  Tell them how much you wished you could go, but simply couldn't because of "circumstances".  Tell her how much you felt the Spirit as you read the Book of Mormon and prayed about it.  Tell her how much you look forward to having your children go on the mission that you never could.

This will certainly replace the mission as the "proxy" that Vort mentioned.  And you will know if it is the lack of mission that the girls run from -- or if it is just you.

Edited by Carborendum

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