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Well, BYU is the home of various organizations that preserve and digitize records related to Judaism and Christianity, and we've been partnering with the Community of Christ's historian's office on this and other artifacts and documents for a long time. The original manuscript (including the 1823 Bible Joseph used in the work) is scanned and free online: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/the-papers/revelations-and-translations/jsppr5 But yes, it's nice to have things, and I'm very excited. I remember in the 1980's, people with passionate opinions about when we'd finally get the temple and the manuscript. I'm surprised the CoC has held on to them for so long, especially when we've been offering real $$$ for them for a long time.

For over a decade, I've felt that pretty much all politicians on the federal level, follow two great commandments above all else: 1. Thou shalt get elected and gain power. 2. Thou shalt remain elected and increase power. That viewpoint has helped me decipher pretty much everything every politician says and does. So, a political party is more a reflection on that party's power brokers (people and entities who can influence votes), than it is of any particular platform or ideology. Trump seems to be a far superior deal maker than the rest of 'em. I truly believe if he had won his 2nd term, Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine. Trump would have made a deal with Putin, probably over NATO expansion and energy. Also this:

I'll go further. The Republican Party is corrupt, and many or most Republican leaders are also corrupt and care about power and influence much more than freedom and liberty. Of the two major parties that have been thrust upon us, the Republicans are significantly less corrupt and awful than the Democrats, which is why I nominally support the Republicans. But I am under no illusions as to the purity of the Republican cause. My feelings about the Republicans are in line with my feelings about Donald Trump and a potential second Trump administration: It's much better than the alternative, but that does not make it ideal, or even particularly good.

I consider them dear distant Cousins who left the family long ago, and have fallen upon hard times, and we figured out how to help them financially. Reading through their FAQ is sort of disheartening.

If it might interest anyone, this short (3 minute) video features Apostle Lachlan Mackay of Community of Christ sharing his feelings regarding this transaction. I'm not sure why this seems important to me. Maybe just to remind us that, while our branch of the Restoration is celebrating today, another branch of the Restoration is probably experiencing some mixed emotions.

Bet we will be using the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible quite a bit more in our classes. 192.5 M well spent.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/sacred-sites-and-historic-documents-transfer-to-church-of-jesus-christ

Correct. It's the financial term. An "endowment" is a big pile of money that sits in income generating investments. You spend the income generated, not the endowment. And there's usually respect and praise for whoever donated the big pile of money. You can endow a college, and get a chair (or even a building) named after you.

I inherited a bunch of religious books from my grandpa. One of them was published in the 1930's (I think), from the church's printing press in Beaver Utah, titled something like "The succession of Joseph II". I briefly thumbed through it, it was basically an in-depth response to a bunch of claims made that Joseph's child should be Joseph's successor after his martyrdom. I put it with the other 2-3 dozen books in a box in my basement. Years later, I was in Yahoo chat arguing religion with an RLDS person about who was right and who was wrong. I ran and got the 70 year old book. He proceeded to make a series of claims, pretty much verbatim to the claims refuted by my book, pretty much in the exact order my book was written. I immediately was able to counter each point he made, clearly and convincingly, by citing various elements of our shared history. Poor dude was forced to say something like "well, I don't know as much as I should about it, but I'm still sure you Brigahmites are the wrong ones." Imagine fighting a battle, over and over again, that was pretty conclusively lost 70 years ago.

Just a little bit of history – as I have experienced. In my college years I, with a few return missionary friends, embarked or a Church history vacation one summer. Our encounter with our religious LDS neighbors was bitter and disappointing and left a very bad taste in my mouth. In my youth, I blamed everything on who we called the Reorganites. Over the years this bitter relationship has softened. One of the doctrines that has sustained some bitterness has been our stand on the priesthood being exclusively for men. The Community of Christ currently has women apostles. There was some bitterness over blacks and the priesthood. Not so much concerning the blacks and the priesthood but the Community of Christ suffered a great division over women and the priesthood. They have never been solvent economically since that division. The LDS Church has financed the Community of Christ to maintain our common interest in historical properties. It was never sustainable – especially for the Community of Christ. A few years ago, my wife and I (with some local friends) again made a trip through Church History. My personal encounter with the Community of Christ was like meeting with beloved long separated family members. I spent a day with one of their general authorities (president of the 70’s). I was privileged to go with him through their private vault of artifacts accumulated form the beginning and dating back to the time we were not separated. With their new focus on “The Community of Christ”, he tearfully confessed to me that they did not have the resources to maintain the artifacts of history. It was not just the finances but the human resources as well. We openly discussed the possibility of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints carrying this baton to the finish line when the Messiah comes. The bitterness between our religious institutions seems to be the one factor no longer a concern. I am grateful that our brethren in Christ have carried this burden so well and nobly for so long. I am grateful that the properties will now be restored to what they need and ought to be – a treasure for the Saints to enjoy during the millennial reign. The Traveler

https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/content/historic-sites/missouri/questions-and-answers-about-the-temple-lot-in-independence-missouri?lang=eng I bet we purchase some property in Independence Missouri next. Likely within 5 years. And there we will build a Temple to the Lord.

I dislike certain tags that oversimplify and distort matters, such as the "Two-Cumorah Theory". Rather than state the matter as "there were two or perhaps more hills called Cumorah", which, though possible, sounds clearly like a stretch (or a tautology—"King Lear was not written by William Shakespeare, but by another playwright of the same name"), a better statement would be, "Perhaps the very name 'Hill Cumorah' simply means the hill chosen to house records." If we assume that records were always hidden somewhere on a hill so that (1) they would be marked by an easily recognizable landmark and (2) they would shed rainfall, it's easy to see that such a hill might become generally known as "Records Hill". Those concerned with record-keeping would quickly learn to look for the Records Hill in an area. If "Cumorah" denotes written records or a storage place for them, then this identification makes perfect sense. Of course, it's still an unsupported assertion, really just speculation. But it certainly has great explanatory value for those who believe the literal truth of the Book of Mormon and the narrative that it provides, and it doesn't immediately raise suspicion and mockery like "Two-Cumorah Theory" does.

The hill near the finger lakes region in eastern (upstate) New York that we call "Cumorah", where Joseph Smith first unearthed the plates of Mormon, is a drumlin—an enlongated, roundish hill composed of debris piled up by and left over from the actions of glaciers that retreated at the end of the last ice age, 13,000 or so years ago. Its structure is not like e.g. the mountains in Utah. You will not likely find limestone caverns in a drumlin. While I suppose it's possible there is some sort of large cave in the modern hill Cumorah, I doubt it, and don't see any convincing reason to suppose there is.

Same difference kinda. Yeah, long day already... 💀

There's also the fact that Laban betrayed the brothers, offering to sell them the record then ordering them slain after getting their possessions. Even if we assume he was just that furious over them coming in the first time around and asking without any thought of compensation, what he did was inexcusable even by the standards of the day and could well have been the final sign that he was not worthy of the responsibility.

We have been talking about the signs of the times. And I still recall President Nelson's admonition to take your vitamins, etc. We now have a picture of Joseph Smith. The original artifacts are returning to the church and I foresee more coming. I still have a deep hope that the 116 pages will suddenly show up in someone's basement. It is likely that parts of it were destroyed or altered but if any of the original docs remain they would be cherrished.

I find this unlikely for several reasons: The Bible is perhaps our strongest contact with "traditional" Christianity, a commonality we would be loathe to lose. The JST was never proclaimed as complete. On the contrary, it's a sporadic mishmash of retranslation, interpretation, and doctrinal additions and changes. I think it would not be especially useful as the Bible is used today to try to use the JST as a regular Bible version. The Church has used a non-JST Bible throughout its history. That's what people know. You don't easily just give that up. (This is sort of an extension of the first bullet.) Saints have often complained about the shortcomings and difficulties inherent in using the KJV. The JST preserves all those perceived shortcomings and adds others. Whatever insights Biblical scholarship might add (e.g. the Dead Sea scrolls) would largely be mitigated by a slavish adherence to the JST. (Bonus point: The existence of the JST itself argues against "slavish adherence".)

Having spent some time trying to talk with some liberal friends – I have concluded that it is unlikely that a contest between Trump and Biden will in anyway calm the troubled waters brewing politically in this country. If anything, I believe it will boil over. I doubt that we will reach November without open violence and an impossible political divide. I do not think either party has the means or desire to deal with the opposition that is building. Though I believe the Democrats to be the more wicked of the two; I am also convinced that the Republicans are more the buffoons that are clueless and unprepared. I wonder if the stupidity of the Republicans is somewhat by the design of their leadership. At this point, I cannot say I trust any political process. My hope is in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I had hope of the religious community of America coming together but since that community still cannot (as a whole) accepts us as Christians – I am very concerned for how much longer G-d will protect this government. For now, I will support anyone or anything that can delay what seems to me to be inevitable. I believe the Democrats will not only win but will win by much more than the Republicans (and other conservatives) can possibly imagine. The Traveler

Just a note. With all the divisions within the Community of Christ it has been a surprise to me that few of those leaving have joined with us. And then even the few – it seems to have been the next generation to find itself joining with us. Perhaps it is the past bitterness. The individual I met with seemed to have a defeated presents – I would think somewhat like Moroni experiencing the end of the Nephits. I did feel that he was a good person expressing a sincere sorrow. Typical to my problems with little compassion I did tell him he has a home with us. His grace precedes mine with his thank you. The Traveler

It is not uncommon to give familiar names to places. I know of a few cities called Paris, London, Main, Portland and Bountiful just to name a few. I have given up attempting to determine the land of the Book of Mormon – thought I have thought to have figured it out a few times, only to realize problems with the narrative within the Book of Mormon. I have concluded that there are a number of places that Jesus most likely visited in the Americas – as well as several other places in this world. I believe that there is sufficient evidence to convince me of visitations to many places other than the Americas (including in India, Persia and Northern Japan). As a side note – does anyone know why Japan has a flag denoting the land of the rising sun? The Traveler

Yep, this is a pretty significant purchase by the Church.

Interesting. According to this article, https://www.quora.com/Do-humans-actually-rank-high-in-the-animal-kingdom-as-long-distance-runners humans do beat horses for persistence running, but sled dogs, ostriches, camels and pronghorns (yes, I had to look that one up too) do better. A pronghorn.

There are two things that come to my mind. The first is that it is possible that there are individuals alive today that know where artifacts associated with the Book of Mormon are. They may even have access to them. However, if such is the case that knowledge is as carefully guarded as the artifacts themselves. The second I would relate to a spiritual manifestation I received as a youth concerning the divine origin of the Book of Mormon. For much of my life I have thought that experience to be sufficient testimony. More and more I am realizing that this sacred work (marvelous work and a wonder) is not an end in and of itself. That it is necessary to study and ponder the Book of Mormon to be spiritually ready for things happening currently in our day. Study and ponder does not mean to read and read hundreds of times. Our prophets have testified on many occasions that we need to (as individuals) carefully study and ponder the revelations and prophesies in the Book of Mormon – including the inclusions in the Book of Mormon from the great prophet Isaiah. Though there are many good people with good intensions is all the religions I have encountered – there is nothing on earth like or comparable to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No other society or individuals have greater access to divine purpose and calling than the Latter-day Saints. Key to our calling and mission as Saints in preparing for the coming Messiah is the Book of Mormon. We ought to and must become spiritual experts in the great secrets and revelations contained in the Book of Mormon as well as all our standard works and words spoken by our prophets. But the Book of Mormon is paramount. This year under the instructions of “Follow Me”, all the saints worldwide are encouraged to study, ponder and openly discuss with one another what we are gleaning in our study. In all honesty I do not believe that speculations of where artifacts are currently located is contributing to anything useful. The Traveler

Stop! Says the Constitution, Before you break the law, Think it over ....

J6 just made life weird. I'm used to being online interacting with lefties and atheists and church critics, and sometimes it seems like the sky in their world just isn't the same color as the sky in my world. And here in a post-J6 world, I encounter a constant slew of folks on the right, my people, folks who think and vote like me, just saying such weird stuff about J6, that I wonder if the color of their sky is the same color as my sky. @Jedi_Nephite, of course many of the horrible things that happened on J6 were "done by right-wing extremists". I'm amazed that anyone could possibly argue against such an obvious set of facts. Q-anon, Proud Boys, and Oathkeepers are 100% the dictionary definition of "right-wing", and a crapton of them fit the "extremist" definition like a glove. 1200 folks arrested, ~730 guilty pleas, ~165 convicted at trial. Each one of 'em more red-blooded right wing American than the last one. An awful lot of convictions for seditious conspiracy from those folks. I mean yes, there were also neo-nazis and white supremacists and neo-confederates and kkk folks and that Mormon cosplayer guy who showed up dressed like Captain Moroni with his Title of Liberty. Those people can't be called "right wing", although the media sure pushes that narrative on occasion. But holy crap - how can anyone who has given even a cursory scan of the facts, claim that "what happened was not done by right wing extremists"? There I was - sitting in my basement office during Covid remote-work lockdown. On one screen, I was doing my work. On the other screen, I was watching Trump's "stop the steal" rally. Holy, holy, holy, HOLY CRAP was Trump, and Guliani, and especially Trump's son yelling crap into their microphones. Stoking outrage. Claiming foul. Demanding action. Whipping up the crowd into marching on the capitol with inflammatory phrases like "go march and demand justice", and "take back our government". Not so much Trump, but yes Guliani, and especially Trump's son. About an hour before we started seeing the news of people breaking in and doing damage, I came upstairs and expressed serious concern to my wife. "I don't understand what the crap Trump is doing. Doesn't he realize that the most mentally-ill and the fringe-est of the fringe are listening to him and getting ready to start hurting people and get themselves arrested?" Trump was charged for "incitement of insurrection" by the house, (who impeached him over it and the senate acquitted him of it after he had left office). So yeah, nobody got convicted of insurrection. Just seditious conspiracy. And not Trump. "Donald Trump never said anything even remotely close to inciting an insurrection." Ugh. What an impossible opinion to defend. He did indeed begin instructing people to be peaceful, but not until after all the horrible had happened. The march hit the capitol a little after 2PM. Pence and the Senators, engaged in certifying the election, had to stop certifying the election, and started getting evacuated around 2:13. The peaceful transition of power, a founding cornerstone of our great republic, was interrupted by the people who hit the capitol. These people had been whipped up into action by Trump, Guliani, and Trump Jr. This didn't happen until 2:38 PM. Look at the time stamp on the tweet, and do the math to convert to Eastern Standard Time: Trump's later appeal for calm happened at 3:13 PM. His video for calm happened even later. I'm a fan of fiery protests. I'm a fan of people swarming the streets and demanding change. I'm a fan of "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances". I'm not a fan of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bodycam_video_taken_at_US_Capitol,_January_6,_2021.webm I'm not a fan of this (34:20 is when Ashley Babbit begins getting herself shot): https://archive.org/details/nYiFQbNc65jwFYCWY?start=1993 Look, my fellow conservatives. Our side screwed up royally on J6. If we're gonna have problems with Antifa and BLM riots, and defend what happened on J6, then we're just as hypocritical as the folks who defend Antifa and BLM riots, but have problems with J6. Don't be like that.

I have been pondering this thread and decided to post some more thought about spiritual influences. I avoided using the term visitations because I believe the connotation of the word visitation is misleading. I can only speak of my own experiences – realizing that there are differing spiritual gifts (Moroni 10) – it is possible to some do not recognize ministering of spirits. There are two distinct kinds of spirit influences. One being the influence of light and the other that of darkness. I believe it is extremely easy to decipher certain dark spirit influences of anger. Some may say “you make me angry” but I strongly believe anger only comes through the ministering of a dark spirit. I also believe that such influences are limited and that we as individuals must give ourselves over to anger before anger can be realized. We cannot be forced to be angry – only tempted, influenced or coerced. I believe in the subtle influences of spirit. Sometimes listed as whisperings. For me such influences come as distinct thoughts. I have learned to identify thoughts that are uniquely my own and thought beyond my understanding and abilities. Jesus talked of eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear. I believe he was spinking of spiritual influences and ministering. It is my experience that the subtle influences of a spirit of light are most difficult to recognize if someone is not loyal to their covenants. It is also my experience that anger is a unmistakable indication that someone is being influenced by a dark spirit. As a side note there is a poster on the forum ( @prisonchaplain ) that I have never seen influenced to anger. This is a strong witness to me of his devotion to be faithful to his promises and covenants to G-d. In the Book of Mormon, the brother of Jared, because of his faith, saw the finger of G-d during an occasion of spirit influence. This indicates to me that visual encounters are rare compared to strong spirits of light ministering. Preceding his first vision, young Joseph Smith encountered a powerful influence of a dark spirit the bound him and caused great fear. Yet, Joseph did not see what was binding him. My point is that we can be visited by spirits, both spirits of light as well as darkness and not see or hear anything with our physical eyes and ears. I do not think I can even count the times that I have felt the influence of a spiritual being in my presents, but only twice have I seen and heard anything with my physical eyes and ears. One such occasion was while I was in the Celestial room of a temple during the dedication of that temple. Many of us are worried about the influences of darkness in the world around and about us. My main purpose for this thread is to raise the awareness that there are more and greater influences of light on the side of those that see light during these last days before the return of the Messiah. If this is hard or difficult for anyone reading in that you are not experiencing comfort – I would suggest you recommit yourself (through behavior) to covenants of righteousness. The Traveler

National Review is good for conservative commentary and insights. What I like about the WSJ is that it's news section is rated as moderate, while its editorial section is moderately conservative. It hasn't joined the Trump Train, but still leans into a pro-America, pro-free enterprise perspective. It's faith friendly, though not specifically religious. I just searched and found out that The Weekly Standard still exists (editor = Bill Krystol). It's conservative, but I'm sure Trump would label it Globalist. I always remember one colleague saying that I cheated when it came to news because I read (rather than listen/watch). 😉

I had to do some serious googling here to decipher these acronyms. @Phoenix_person, let me know if I get anything wrong. DFL: The democrat party in Minnesota. Usually Democrats call themselves Democrats, but for whatever reason, the Democrats in MN is the "Democrat Farmer-Labor Party". DSA: Democratic Socialists of America. These ain't liberals, they're lefties. If you don't know the difference, it's about time you went to the two wikipedia pages to hear how they describe themselves. So, a bunch of Minnesotan old democrats are mad because [insert crotchety old lady Minnesotan voice] a bunch of commies are showin' up and pretending to be old democrats, but they're really commies! [/colMv] Dems are happy with Biden. Leftie socialists tend to be mad at him because of his "soft stance on Israel".

Laban was just a misunderstood guy with a temper problem. He lost his head. It happens.

Goldspot, you say? Yes, I've shopped there - great people to buy from, very good customer support. Highly recommend them.

Klaw was doing this earlier - from the master bed, down the hall and almost smashing into the farthest window in the house - then back again as soon as I looked at him. It was time for the squirrelies, apparently.