Elder Holland talk April 2022

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Having a young adult daughter that is suffering from deep depression, is borderline suicidal and has left the church. I found his talk kind of flippent regarding those young people that are struggling with life. I feel kind of let down by the seeming arrogance from church leaders lately. I have a testimony of Jesus Christ only, not in people. I refuse to worship the arm of man in any way. Sorry, just how I am feeling right now. :(

[LDSGator]

44 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Having a young adult daughter that is suffering from deep depression, is borderline suicidal and has left the church. I found his talk kind of flippent regarding those young people that are struggling with life. I feel kind of let down by the seeming arrogance from church leaders lately. I have a testimony of Jesus Christ only, not in people. I refuse to worship the arm of man in any way. Sorry, just how I am feeling right now.

Praying for your daughter right now, and for all of your family bro. 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

19 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Praying for your daughter right now, and for all of your family bro. 

I really appreciate that. I just feel overwhelmed right now. Prayers are always welcome. 👍

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Having a young adult daughter that is suffering from deep depression, is borderline suicidal and has left the church. I found his talk kind of flippent regarding those young people that are struggling with life. I feel kind of let down by the seeming arrogance from church leaders lately. I have a testimony of Jesus Christ only, not in people. I refuse to worship the arm of man in any way. Sorry, just how I am feeling right now.

I didn't see his talk that way at all.  Do you mind elaborating?

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Having a young adult daughter that is suffering from deep depression, is borderline suicidal and has left the church. I found his talk kind of flippent regarding those young people that are struggling with life. I feel kind of let down by the seeming arrogance from church leaders lately. I have a testimony of Jesus Christ only, not in people. I refuse to worship the arm of man in any way. Sorry, just how I am feeling right now.

What about his talk bothered you?   I thought his talk was full of love and the testified of Christ.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

i guess I just see it the wrong way as i am under a lot of stress right now. Very frustrated.

[Grunt]

28 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

i guess I just see it the wrong way as i am under a lot of stress right now. Very frustrated.

That's one of the things nobody tells you when you're investigating.  Being a Saint can be HARD.

[person0]

4 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Having a young adult daughter that is suffering from deep depression, is borderline suicidal and has left the church. I found his talk kind of flippent regarding those young people that are struggling with life. I feel kind of let down by the seeming arrogance from church leaders lately. I have a testimony of Jesus Christ only, not in people. I refuse to worship the arm of man in any way. Sorry, just how I am feeling right now.

So. . . I pointed out to my wife that when Elder Anderson brought up the LGBT+ legislation in Arizona, that most members who have embraced one of those lifestyles and/or ideologies tend to look at the Churches efforts as meaningless and as just publicity stunts.  The reason for this is because their wish is that the Church would validate their lifestyle, which won't happen.

I bring this up because it is easy for us to wish the brethren would do more because we don't know or understanding why God has not called them to so do.  I am guilty of this all the time because I sometimes wish they would more explicitly reiterate the doctrines regarding identity, family, and chastity that are very clearly available on the Church website.  In my mind I imagine that if only they would say it, the members who have been beguiled will be shaken and awaken; however, the doctrine is easy to find and they ignore it now, so why should I expect a retelling to stir them up?  It never worked long-term for Laman or Lemuel.  🤷🏻‍♂️

I feel for you and your family, and I pray that in and through Christ you all come out on top with strength and increased ability to cope and deal with challenges.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

12 hours ago, person0 said:

So. . . I pointed out to my wife that when Elder Anderson brought up the LGBT+ legislation in Arizona, that most members who have embraced one of those lifestyles and/or ideologies tend to look at the Churches efforts as meaningless and as just publicity stunts.  The reason for this is because their wish is that the Church would validate their lifestyle, which won't happen.

I bring this up because it is easy for us to wish the brethren would do more because we don't know or understanding why God has not called them to so do.  I am guilty of this all the time because I sometimes wish they would more explicitly reiterate the doctrines regarding identity, family, and chastity that are very clearly available on the Church website.  In my mind I imagine that if only they would say it, the members who have been beguiled will be shaken and awaken; however, the doctrine is easy to find and they ignore it now, so why should I expect a retelling to stir them up?  It never worked long-term for Laman or Lemuel.  🤷🏻‍♂️

I feel for you and your family, and I pray that in and through Christ you all come out on top with strength and increased ability to cope and deal with challenges.

Thank you. Life is and always will be astruggle. We just keep on and do our best, right?

[Jane_Doe]

18 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Having a young adult daughter that is suffering from deep depression, is borderline suicidal and has left the church. I found his talk kind of flippent regarding those young people that are struggling with life. I feel kind of let down by the seeming arrogance from church leaders lately. I have a testimony of Jesus Christ only, not in people. I refuse to worship the arm of man in any way. Sorry, just how I am feeling right now.

I didn't get the chance to watch conference yesterday, and upon seeing this thread the first talk I watched this morning was Elder Holland's.

Depression & suicide is a topic that in unfortunately very personal to me.  I had some major childhood trauma that drove me to deep depression and suicidal thoughts at an extremely young age.  It was my secret war-- growing up in the 90's we didn't talk about abuse or depression or suicide.  Not a church, not at home, not anywhere.  This was my secret war and to my young knowledge I was the only one in the world going through something like this.  

Christ & a testimony of Him was literally the only thing that kept me going at points-- the knowledge that at least He knew & understood.

I remember vividly when Elder Holland spoke directly of his own struggles with depression from the General Conference pulpit in "Like a Broken Vessel".  It was... huge for me.  By then I had actually began to address my struggles in a personal & clinical setting, but hearing of it from the pulpit-- an Apostle's own struggles-- was HUGE for me.  That talk is still a major favorite of mine, surpassed only by his later talk "Songs Sung & Unsung".  They were instrumental in finally fully healing my wounds.  

Watching Elder Holland's latest talk this morning with this thread in mind, I am of two thoughts.  The dominate one is how I feel right now, as somebody who's come through that tunnel and now stands on the other side: I loved it in tears.  I found it extremely touching, Christ-centered, emphatic, humble and generally very on point.  I am so glad to have this spoken from the General Conference pulpit, directly, without euphemism, from an Apostle I know has seen the darkness.  

However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  

Prayers for you, your daughter, and all of your loved ones.  

[Just_A_Guy]

8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

However, thinking of your daughter, I thought of how I would have reacted back then... and that's more of a mixed bag.  When I was deep in that pain, many times I didn't want medicine or to be better-- I just wanted to be left alone.  In my illness,  I thought I "deserved" this and any wanna-be heroes were arrogant & naive fools whom didn't understand the monster I was.  It was a point of deep illness, that foundationally warped my perspectives.  And frankly made life super hard for me & anyone whom cares (I did/do have many loved ones).  

This.  I’ve never been diagnosed, but I can certainly get into funks now and then . . . And when I’m in one, I frankly resent anyone who suggests to me that it may be possible for me to eventually be pulled out of it.

I *suspect* that one of the really ticklish things about depression is that it plays with one’s head in such a way that when one has it, it becomes a downward spiral and one tends to resist  doing/hearing some of the things the things that could help alleviate the symptoms.  Not that one can or should be expected to merely “snap out of it”, of course; but there are things one can do that often help to varying degrees, and that the depression itself often dissuaded one from doing.  😞

Edited April 3, 2022 by Just_A_Guy

[laronius]

While we can be edified by every talk not every talk is specifically meant for us. I'm sure that talk addressed specifically what many needed to hear. For the rest of us, we glean what we can through the Spirit and wait for that talk that is meant for us.

[carlimac]

22 hours ago, person0 said:

The reason for this is because their wish is that the Church would validate their lifestyle, which won't happen.

I bring this up because it is easy for us to wish the brethren would do more because we don't know or understanding why God has not called them to so do.  I am guilty of this all the time because I sometimes wish they would more explicitly reiterate the doctrines regarding identity, family, and chastity that are very clearly available on the Church website.  In my mind I imagine that if only they would say it, the members who have been beguiled will be shaken and awaken; however, the doctrine is easy to find and they ignore it now, so why should I expect a retelling to stir them up?  It never worked long-term for Laman or Lemuel.  🤷🏻‍♂️

 

And the next day, along comes Elder Oaks! And it unfortunately causes contention between me and my 18 yr old daughter who has a huge heart but has been educated in the woke world of relativism and thinks there is more gray area than there really is. 😩

[person0]

22 hours ago, carlimac said:

And the next day, along comes Elder Oaks! And it unfortunately causes contention between me and my 18 yr old daughter who has a huge heart but has been educated in the woke world of relativism and thinks there is more gray area than there really is. 😩

Yeah.  Unfortunately, there are many in the same boat.

[scottyg]

3 hours ago, person0 said:

Yeah.  Unfortunately, there are many in the same boat.

Sadly, the pressures of the world mob are intense for the youth, and all those without a firm foundation. Too many think that truth is relative rather than concrete - subjective rather than objective. I gave a lesson on truth to our youth on our last 5th Sunday. Some if them didn't seem to believe me when I told them the basics...like how the commandments apply to everyone. No one gets a pass because they may feel commandments or laws are "unfair" or "oppressive".

For reasons unknown to me, the adversary's message is seductive to them. He makes his foul patterns seem more loving and inclusive while painting God's as hateful and exclusive.

[Fether]

I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday about a concept that is very difficult to work around. There are people on this world that are extremely sensitive and will spiral into depressive states at the drop of a hat. On the other side, there are people that thrive on being called to repentance. It gives them energy to push forward knowing that there is more growth to be had. A single talk cannot provide the needed energy for the latter whilst being conscience of the needs of the former. 
 

there are speakers that I detest listening to, but I know others love it. I would hate to see those speakers disappear because of my opinions. I would also hate to see those “in your face” talks disappear because a portion of the church finds them difficult to listen to.

[Vort]

On 4/2/2022 at 5:20 PM, Grunt said:

That's one of the things nobody tells you when you're investigating.  Being a Saint can be HARD.

 True, but I firmly believe that not being a Saint is much harder.

[person0]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

 True, but I firmly believe that not being a Saint is much harder.

Imagine the misery of going through life after rejecting the true gospel you once loved.

I was explaining to my daughter the other day that, for me, there is no alternative to the Restored Gospel.  If the Book of Mormon and Church weren't true, I couldn't find answers in any other faith; they have similar or greater flaws and fewer answers.  On the other hand, disbelieving God exists would make life a meaningless pursuit of pleasures, at which point, I might as well choose to believe; if I die and cease to exist, I have lost nothing and am none the wiser, yet gospel structured living blessed me with family, hope, redemption, and personal growth through my mortal sojourn.  In myriad ways, the opportunity cost of living without the gospel is far greater than that of living with it, hence, there is no satisfactory alternative.

I'm so grateful to know that Christ is my Savior and to have His true Restored Gospel in my life.

[Grunt]

13 hours ago, Vort said:

 True, but I firmly believe that not being a Saint is much harder.

Maybe?   As someone who spent all but the last 4 years of his life NOT as a Saint, I don't know (from a mortal perspective).   I will certainly say life is better and more fulfilling.   

 

Edited to add:   I suppose, as I ponder this, I liken it to going to the gym.   I'm in the gym every morning.   It's certainly harder than sleeping in or watching television.   However, it improves my quality of life.  I can do more physically.  I'm happier.  I'm healthier.   The rest of my life is better because of the effort I put into my physical health.   I think my life is better because of the effort I put into my spiritual life.   That doesn't mean there aren't days when it's time to get up and it takes every ounce of motivation to not roll over and go back to sleep.   For me, some days being a Saint is like that.   There are aspects of the Church, my faith, and my covenants that I struggle with.  But I get up, exercise my testimony and fulfill my calling, and everything falls into place.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Grunt

[Fether]

Just re-read the talk.

Im confused. What is the issue with it?

[Jane_Doe]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

Just re-read the talk.

Im confused. What is the issue with it?

There is not really an issue with it directly. 

But when you’re actively in that dark place, it’s very very VERY easy to feel like others talking at you are don’t “get it”. 

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

There is not really an issue with it directly. 

But when you’re actively in that dark place, it’s very very VERY easy to feel like others talking at you are don’t “get it”. 

Makes sense

[NeuroTypical]

For whatever reason, I've had the opportunity to talk to folks who are expressing suicidal notions on more than one occasion.  I've found the best I can do, is just show them a little (just a little) genuine sadness at the prospect of losing them, with a genuine claim of "the world is a better place with you in it".  

The genuineness is critical.  I know a small handful of people who I would not be sad to hear they died, where I feel the world might be slightly better with them not in it.  I hope the day never comes when I'm faced with one of them expressing thoughts of suicide, because I'm not a good liar.  Loving my neighbor in that instance would be quite the challenge for me.

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

For whatever reason, I've had the opportunity to talk to folks who are expressing suicidal notions on more than one occasion.  I've found the best I can do, is just show them a little (just a little) genuine sadness at the prospect of losing them, with a genuine claim of "the world is a better place with you in it".  

The genuineness is critical.  I know a small handful of people who I would not be sad to hear they died, where I feel the world might be slightly better with them not in it.  I hope the day never comes when I'm faced with one of them expressing thoughts of suicide, because I'm not a good liar.  Loving my neighbor in that instance would be quite the challenge for me.

That’s beautiful bro. I’m glad those people had you in their life. 

[Still_Small_Voice]

I was reading through the comments on YouTube with Elder Oaks talk reaffirming The Family, A Proclamation to the World.  Most were positive but some were negative.  One said they would be removing their records from Christ's Restored Church.

This is a close quote on one of the comments: 

The truths of God and His commandments are immovable. President Oaks said exactly what needed to be said, and he did so lovingly, but without ambiguity.   The scriptures teach us to pursue the atonement of Jesus Christ and become more than what we were born into this world.  We all have personal struggles, many times which seem insurmountable, but we really need to choose to become something much more than we currently are.

 "I was born this way."  Yes, perhaps that is the case. But the Lord Jesus Christ did not suffer a horrific torture and death for us to remain complacent to our state of being. He did so that our sins and imperfections are paid for if we pursue repentance. Repentance is change, it is not punishment. We really need to choose to follow the Lord's example in living the way God our Father asks us to. This will transform us from a lesser to a much greater and best version of who we really are as children of God.

"Nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself for it is given unto thee."