Updated CES Standards

[mikbone]

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/updated-ces-standards-students-closer-to-christ?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-churchnewsroom&utm_content=later-37391910&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio

Dress and Grooming Principles and Expectations have historically varied among CES institutions and will now be simplified and unified across campuses. These updates identify a set of foundational principles while retaining an important set of common expectations.

CES Dress and Grooming Expectations

Dress for men and women should:

Be modest in fit and style. Dressing in a way that would cover the temple garment is a good guideline, whether or not one has been endowed. Accommodation may be made for athletic participation.

Be neat and clean. Sloppy, overly casual, ragged, or extreme clothing is not acceptable.

Grooming

Hair should be clean, neat, modest, and avoid extremes in styles and colors.

Men’s hair should be neatly trimmed. Men should be clean shaven. If worn, mustaches should be neatly trimmed.

Edited August 24, 2023 by mikbone

[Carborendum]

I don't notice any changes.

[JohnsonJones]

Does this cover BYU as well, or just CES?

Differences if it covers BYU would be that it does not dictate that shorts need to be at least knee length for starters.  It gives suggestions on clothing, but not a mandatory length of sleeves or shirts. 

[mikbone]

I’d assume that Seminary falls under the CES.

Thus no more hoochie mamma shorts for the teens / pre-teens.

[Vort]

It also specifically disallows same-sex romances.

BYU is a part of the Church Education System.

[Carborendum]

16 minutes ago, Vort said:

It also specifically disallows same-sex romances.

BYU is a part of the Church Education System.

True, but the portion in the OP was specifically "dress & grooming."

But as for the Law of Chastity, yes.  That was an important change.

Now, there will be mass departures.  Prior to this, people still thought they could get away with holding hands, hugging, kissing, etc. (i.e. Romantic Behavior).  But as long as they did exactly what unmarried heterosexuals can do, then they're ok. Nope.

Quote

Living a chaste and virtuous life also includes abstaining from same-sex romantic behavior

Cries of "not fair" will now sound all over.  It will be a shot heard 'round the world.

[mikbone]

35 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Now, there will be mass departures.  Prior to this, people still thought they could get away with holding hands, hugging, kissing, etc. (i.e. Romantic Behavior).  But as long as they did exactly what unmarried heterosexuals can do, then they're ok. Nope

[Just_A_Guy]

17 hours ago, mikbone said:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/updated-ces-standards-students-closer-to-christ?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-churchnewsroom&utm_content=later-37391910&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio

Dress and Grooming Principles and Expectations have historically varied among CES institutions and will now be simplified and unified across campuses. These updates identify a set of foundational principles while retaining an important set of common expectations.

CES Dress and Grooming Expectations

Dress for men and women should:

Be modest in fit and style. Dressing in a way that would cover the temple garment is a good guideline, whether or not one has been endowed. Accommodation may be made for athletic participation.

Be neat and clean. Sloppy, overly casual, ragged, or extreme clothing is not acceptable.

Grooming

Hair should be clean, neat, modest, and avoid extremes in styles and colors.

Men’s hair should be neatly trimmed. Men should be clean shaven. If worn, mustaches should be neatly trimmed.

It’ll be interesting to see the practical effects of this.  The new standards are less detailed and—frankly—less objectively enforceable.  They give much more authority to the subjective judgment of the enforcer; and given some of the libertine predilections of the current head of the BYU Honor Code Office (unless he’s been replaced in the last year or so)—I suspect things will get much more interesting over the short term.  

[Carborendum]

15 hours ago, mikbone said:

I doubt a whole lot of people in the general public ever saw this.

The honor code is at least something every BYU student has to sign, whether they actually read it or not.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm legitimately surprised they're still asking for no beards to be worn. 

[LDSGator]

53 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm legitimately surprised they're still asking for no beards to be worn. 

I am too.

[Grunt]

13 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm legitimately surprised they're still asking for no beards to be worn. 

I had almost a week off before Sunday and I rarely shave when I'm off work.  I was conducting and after Sacrament someone from the stake commented on my "beard".   I'm wearing this to the next stake event.  

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1436037046/funny-lds-shirt-beard-goals-beards-of?gpla=1&gao=1&

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Grunt

[laronius]

I know for me, if I'm going to be lazy and just let something go it will be facial hair. Not that I let it get to full beard but 3-4 days growth before I shave. Maybe they see that as the first sign of becoming slovenly. I guess there needs to be something that sets guys apart from the rest of the world.

[zil2]

53 minutes ago, laronius said:

I guess there needs to be something that sets guys apart from the rest of the world.

Um, could you define "guys"?

 

 

 

[estradling75]

15 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm legitimately surprised they're still asking for no beards to be worn. 

If I were to guess.... (and it is only a guess) I would say that it is because the Missionary grooming standards are not going to change.   And after Family and local church leaders the CES group might be the next most influential group for the future missionaries.  Having less potential stumbling blocks seems wise.

 

As for me personally I was clean shaven for a very long time.  Then many years into my marriage my wife lets me know she likes the more scruffy look, so I have been doing that ever since.  (I do not know why she waited so long to tell me her preferences on the subject)

[mikbone]

3 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Then many years into my marriage my wife lets me know she likes the more scruffy look

Trying to imagine a scruffy blue sour carebear…

[Traveler]

As a 5th generation family member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I personal think that dress and grooming standards should never be questioned in these the last days.  I cannot think of a single reason to not be ultra extreme in being modestly dressed for any Saint G-d for any era or dispensation.  I do know it is possible to have a rare condition that prohibits shaving – other than such rare circumstance, I do not understand why anyone founded in their covenants, would object to one being clean, washed, shaved (for men), groomed, and dressed in a sacred manner (not of the world) for presenting themselves to renew their covenants with G-d on the Sabbath.

I understand the principle of Agency and realize that regardless of whatever guidelines given that there will always be some that object – but for me, out of respect for all that Christ has done for me – when operate, I will wear a suit, white shirt and tie.

However, there was once while traveling one of my younger engineers was a returned missionary but had fallen away from the church for a time.  We talked about attending church to renew our covenants and my young engineer was willing to go to church with me – but he had no church clothes (we were installing and testing robots in an indusial setting.)  The best he had was levies and a t-shirt.  I told him I would wear levies and a t-shirt, and we would go together.  I was very pleased that the good saints at the local ward welcomed us both.  A few weeks later we attended with customary suits, white shirts and ties.

I realize that some do not have means for the traditional Utah, LDS Sunday dress – but we all should be glad to come before G-d a best as we are able – without complaint.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

told him I would wear levies and a t-shirt, and we would go together. 

That’s awesome of you bro. 

[NeuroTypical]

I note the BYU Pathway program doesn't require it's students to sign the honor code.  

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I cannot think of a single reason to not be ultra extreme in being modestly dressed for any Saint G-d for any era or dispensation.  I do know it is possible to have a rare condition that prohibits shaving – other than such rare circumstance, I do not understand why anyone founded in their covenants, would object to one being clean, washed, shaved (for men), groomed, and dressed in a sacred manner (not of the world) for presenting themselves to renew their covenants with G-d on the Sabbath.

I can, and I do.

There are many cultures, including ours, where a woman would never willingly shave her head bald. Covenant women might do so if asked to, only because they feel obligated by their covenants; but unless there is a pressing reason for them to do so, I think it would be unwise to require or even strongly suggest that they shave their heads.

Likewise, some men might feel that shaving their beards strikes at the very foundation of their open display of masculinity, and might thereby hesitate to be clean-shaven. In the same way as a woman being asked to shave her head bald, I think that requiring or even suggesting that a man should be clean-shaven should generally be done only when there is a pressing reason to do so. I think it's plausibly arguable that in the counterculture attitudes of the 1960s and 1970s, it was reasonable to ask men holding certain positions (such as missionaries or men in leadership positions) to be clean-shaven. Please note that, at least to my knowledge, temple recommends have never been generally denied to men who wore beards or other facial hair, even in the 1960s and '70s.

Today, I think that such counterculture elements would be far more likely to include things like gauged-out earlobes, facial or other tattoos, pink or green hair, and so forth. If such things are to be considered acceptable or at least not something the leadership counsels people about, I cannot imagine that wearing any sort of facial hair would be.

[Vort]

By the way, I have no objection to "missionary standards" that include a short haircut and a requirement to shave, or even the idea that CES institutions might have a grooming code including short hair and clean-shaven status. For missionaries especially, I think such a grooming code might be a very good idea. But as a general rule, I think that telling men they need to shave is probably anachronistic and, in most cases, not overly helpful.

[The Folk Prophet]

10 hours ago, laronius said:

I know for me, if I'm going to be lazy and just let something go it will be facial hair. Not that I let it get to full beard but 3-4 days growth before I shave. Maybe they see that as the first sign of becoming slovenly. I guess there needs to be something that sets guys apart from the rest of the world.

Because, as we all well know, Jesus was "slovenly".

The strange thing to me is that the no beard thing is 100% cultural. There's no reality to it other than perception. And it is my perception that the entire beard=rebel thing is pretty darned outdated. Obviously wording such as they used with mustaches would make sense. But a well groomed beard still being against the honor code is just weird.

It feels very out of touch.

Shrug. What do I care?

Edited August 28, 2023 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

8 hours ago, estradling75 said:

If I were to guess.... (and it is only a guess) I would say that it is because the Missionary grooming standards are not going to change.   And after Family and local church leaders the CES group might be the next most influential group for the future missionaries.  Having less potential stumbling blocks seems wise.

Doesn't make sense to me. Mission rules are mission rules despite what can and cannot be worn at BYU. They don't require white shirts and ties at BYU, and yet....

[Just_A_Guy]

16 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Because, as we all well know, Jesus was "slovenly".

The strange thing to me is that the no beard thing is 100% cultural. There's no reality to it other than perception. And it is my perception that the entire beard=rebel thing is pretty darned outdated. Obviously wording such as they used with mustaches would make sense. But a well groomed beard still being against the honor code is just weird.

It feels very out of touch.

Shrug. What do I care?

If remember correctly from his biography, even 40 years ago as president of BYU, President Oaks expressed his belief that the beard ban was cultural, not theologically necessary; and that he personally would have preferred its removal.

The fact that it remains in place all these years later suggests to me that perhaps the beard ban served, and continues to serve, a sort of “sifting function” at BYU that the General Authorities feel is desirable.

[Carborendum]

On 8/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm legitimately surprised they're still asking for no beards to be worn. 

Says the man with a highland cattle hanging off his chin.