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I was very, very Catholic. I was a Eucharistic Minister, a Lector, and a 4th Degree Knight. And now, I am LDS. I sometimes miss the tradition and solemnity of the Catholic Church, but being LDS is the right thing....and it is amazing.

The Indiana State Fair began today. Here's something that may be right up mirk's alley.....

I definitely agree that Ed Decker's style was disingenuous and sensationalistic. I would agree that his "literature" is anti-mormon. M.

The versions are not just because folks do not tell a story the same way each time, but also because stories are told differently to different audiences. I go into more detail with folks who know nothing. I tell less details to people I do not know well. I have no issues with it

Well... my guess would be porn. In many ways porn reduces the number available males by offering a cheaper alternative to what they desire. Then is it s simple matter of supply and demand. With a greater supply of women then men on the market then men get to set the price and women have to meet it or otherwise make themselves more attractive. And I think that explains quite clearly what we see.

I'm reading it now.. I am gripped, it's such a good book! And the way he writes I feel like i am actually there.. Anyway back to it ?

I had two students a year ago and two years before last. They were half-sisters, daughters of a woman very much like the one you described. She had three other kids, and I don't think any more than two were by the same man. It was a very sad situation as this woman went from man to man, looking for what seemed like emotional and financial support (speaking merely practically, not bad things in and of themselves in the social construct of marriage), only to find things not working in her favor. Unlike other women you describe, she did not seem to have any other social support and I believe the family spent most of last year in a women's shelter. She had a state welfare support system that even then failed her as she was jumping between men and thus "losing" that support. She did not even have a high school graduation and seemingly no skills to generate her own income. Quite a mess. Regarding such setups working emotionally, I see certain differences between men and women. Women tending to be more gentle can certainly impart plenty of morality, but that gentleness can backfire when there isn't a more masculine sense of discipline and justice to balance out that gentleness. On a side note, I recall hearing about a certain culture somewhere where marriage simply didn't exist in the classic term. Men raised their sisters' children, that's where responsibility lay.

Yes....there was something really special about it. But, I have never felt as close to the family of God as I do as a Latter-Day Saint

It is harder to "put yourself out there" in today's world. We are ruled by the inane "political correctness" idiocy that plagues our society. I think I will start calling my Doberman a "Doberperson"

This.

That. So the question becomes at what point are you mature enough for marriage and still not so set in your ways that no one in their right mind would want to live with you. I prefer @Jane_Doe's answer best: be a disciple of Christ. The glory of God is intelligence, or in other words, light and truth. (Or "For behold, this is my work and my glory -- to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.") This is not a worldly, intellectual education*, it's a spiritual one, and our teacher is Jesus Christ. If you're worried about becoming like God, help him to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. If you're worried about getting married, become marry-able. The best way I can think of to do that is to become a true disciple of Jesus Christ. *I'm not arguing against education that is not obviously spiritual (I think all honest education can be spiritual), I'm just arguing that our focus should be to follow Christ. For some reason, some people think we need something more / different than the Sunday School answers, and yet, until we've mastered those answers with real intent, they are the best answer. I'm not saying you think that @Zarahemla, I don't know, but you appear to be searching for something "more" and the best answers really are the standard ones, but with more effort, more desire to let the Lord lead you, etc. (I think I used to be you in this regard, so I'm telling you, I've discovered that the mysteries were under my nose the whole time, not hidden away in some book they didn't tell young people about. )

Neither one, Maureen, just funny. It's OK that you didn't catch her sarcasm earlier, now she's teasing that maybe we're missing your sarcasm now, knowing full well you weren't being sarcastic. It must be an acquired taste, cuz I though it was very funny.

Your (and everyone else's) focus should be on growing with God. That involves increasing in knowledge AND wisdom, as you said (got to have both, and people often neglect the wisdom). Focusing on "I need to get married right now" is not a good goal, because things happen in the Lord's time, not ours. However, during your course of growing with God, a product of that is you will be prepared to become a spouse (patient, loving, long-suffering, etc) when it is time.

I'm still hippy but I blame that on Nutella.

They're not mutually exclusive, fer cryin' in a bucket. The first commandment God gave mankind is "multiply and replenish the earth." It was not learn the Gospel, it was not learn your trade or craft. These are important things to do, but they are not the principle reason for being here. And, as they marry older, the number of children decreases. This is bad both spiritually and temporally, personally and culturally. (Read The Birth Dearth: What Happens When People in Free Countries Don't Have Enough Babies?, by Ben J. Watternberg.) As they get older, they become more set in their ways, and they are less able to adapt to married life and make the concessions required when two people live together. As they marry older, they are less able to sacrifice their personal "wants" to a greater good, that of their family. Having a good job is nice, but it is not a requisite for marriage. Having "stuff" is nice, but it is not required for marriage. Having all this eliminates the struggle and reduces the necessity of bonding together in (trivial, although it doesn't seem so at the time) adversity that will make facing hardships later easier and natural. Late marriage is worse than early marriage. Physically, it seems better, but measuring those things that count, it doesn't hold a candle to having a spouse and children when our God-designed bodies are ready for parenting. Lehi

Wait Maureen, are you saying some other group borrowed our hymn's music?

God and guns.

The GodMakers, fer shure, but the true classics include: 1) Mormonism Unvailed 2) The Kingdom of the Cults 3) Twenty Seventh Wife Wife No. 19 Lehi

A truth that's told with bad intent Beats all the lies you can invent. –William Blake, "Auguries of Innocence" Lehi

Exhibit A: "The Godmakers" (just for classical example)

That forum would be helpful! I didn't catch that "at most 1.6" either. I'll do some poking around on that tech forum right now.

Anti-mormons rely on spinning, half-truths, strawmen arguments, downright lies, or other falsehood methodology. A person can be critical of the church, but still be factual and honest, though these people are generally less common (it is human tendency to polarize).

OK, I thought I couldn't help you (I know almost nothing of Linux), but you did note that line about how it needs JVM 1.6, right? But you have 1.8?

I can't help you, but just in case you don't already know, there's a tech forum on lds.org specifically for indexing.

I packed up a year ago and moved to Utah from Texas. I had a wonderful 6-figure job and nice house in Texas....I felt God wanted me to move here, so I did.

Welcome to my world. There is a whole segment of our society that lives their lives this way; and I deal with them on a daily basis. Oh--and, they vote.

HA! As @anatess2 would say, I think you just won the internet for today.

There are two problems people have with accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet: 1) He has a last name. 2) His life post-dated the printing press. Lehi

Amen, I envy you for the second amendment. my fellow countrymen are sadly soft and too content. they murmur and complain but they don´t have enough privations to stand up for themselves. But Berlin, Washington DC is a den of thieves and I hope those fools don´t kick off another war in Europe. That is our greatest concern here. Unfortunately our government is just all too willing to appease anything that your government cooks up.

While not sleeping this morning (at around 2:30), it struck me that we do have a contemporary example of polyandry, or, perhaps more accurately, polyamory. The huge fraction of unwed mothers, especially in inner cities, where ¾ of children are born to mothers whose "husbands" (however temporary) also have children by other "wives", and whose many children often have different fathers, shows us that polyandry or polyamory is rampant under the welfare state. It seems possible that the welfare state not only makes this possible, but a rational choice for the women, perhaps for the men, as well, since not only do the mothers not have to worry about choosing a long-term partner to raise her/their children, but, it makes no sense to do so: the state will take the role of provider/protector and will fill it better than most of the men whom she has access to. The men, on other hand, don't need to choose mates to complement them — they can merely spread their seed as far and as widely as testosterone drives them or allows. Does it work? That's the only question we need consider. It does and it does not. It only does because the state takes resources (money, primarily) from pair-bonded families and subsidizes whatever-in-the-heck these other entities are. Take away the welfare state, and this kind of mating strategy would collapse and disappear. (Whether an unsubsidized system or polyandry or polyamory would work is an open question. I've read of such things, but in one case, polyamory, it was fiction, and in the other, polyandry, I don't recall any of the details.) Does it work emotionally? I don't know anyone in this kind of situation, so I have no observations up close and personal. However, we can discern a thriving community with this mating structure. The women turn to each other (especially their own mothers and grandmothers) for the emotional support they need, but it seems they don't do well at all in raising the children: murder, stealing, rape, and other violent, along with a pervasive miasma of non-violent, crime accompanies this culture. Death at a young age, usually violent death, is part of the fabric of these communities. Does it work economically? Were it possible to extract the welfare component, we'd probably see it falter in weeks or months. Partly because there is no incentive for the men to create wealth. They live of of their mothers or "wives" and do nothing useful — just "chill out", have sex, rob, kill, and do a lot of drugs. Take away the money stolen from productive people, and it is a toss up whether they'd go "get a job" or simply increase their criminal activities. There is little to support the former theory, and much to buttress the latter. But it does work reproductively: the fraction of people in these circumstances has grown significantly over the past five decades, whether the economy grows or not. So, whether you consider this polyandry or polyamory, it's an aberration that will not positively affect anyone involved (except bureaucrats and politicians): those living it are not well off, those "contributing" are worse off, and there is no reasonable means of escaping the vicious cycle. Lehi

This is more-or-less true. It does not change the fact that a man will choose the most desirable available women he can get from whatever pool is before him. Likewise, a woman will choose the most desirable man from the pool she has access to. Whether these pools are limited by geography or otherwise does not change the fact that each will choose the best he can get. "Wreck" is an amorphous word. But what it would do is change the dynamics by allowing women to choose better men than the remnants, the picked-overs, those others have not chosen. It would also allow women from lower status pools to "move up" into other pools because they are depleted by men who have taken multiple wives from the pools on the same levels they were allowed to fish. Again, under polygyny, it is the lower/est grade men who suffer the most and the most highly desirable women who become gatekeepers for their highly desirable husbands as to whether they can take additional wives. If they permit additional marriages, one might say they, too, suffer. But they are in control, so any suffering is of their own choice. With polyandry, the sexual roles are reversed with regard to which class suffers and which gains. Nonetheless, the total benefit is higher across the whole population. Lehi

Hi everyone, Just wanted to let you all know that I'm still here, still attending, waiting for a calling (but I'm praying for one, I would quite like one) and I'm going to the temple to do baptisms soon and do my Visiting Teaching. My hubby likes the people at Church and we socialise with them lots, my kids love going to Church and listening to a three year old thank Heavenly Father before bed for ice cream will melt your heart. I haven't been on here as I was neglecting my family abit so I try not to go on the Internet so much, the Gospel isn't just about knowing stuff I have plenty of time. These last three months have been very interesting, but Im also very happy with my decision

President Monson has said in General Conference: April 2008 As bearers of the priesthood, we have been placed on earth in troubled times. We live in a complex world with currents of conflict everywhere to be found. Political machinations ruin the stability of nations, despots grasp for power, and segments of society seem forever downtrodden, deprived of opportunity, and left with a feeling of failure. October 2014 As bearers of the priesthood, we have been placed on earth in troubled times. We live in a complex world with currents of conflict everywhere to be found. Political schemes ruin the stability of nations, despots grasp for power, and segments of society seem forever downtrodden, deprived of opportunity and left with a feeling of failure. The sophistries of men ring in our ears, and sin surrounds us. -- Any thoughts on this? Makes me think it's time to prepare, like a lot; like buying antibiotics, weapons, fuel, year supply of food, etc. Makes me wonder also if the Restored Gospel is compatible with any political party, and I think the answer is no because God's goals aren't subject to being re-elected.

In that order. Alma the Younger said that preaching the word had more effect on the people than the sword. But his successor was both prophet and general, wielded both word and sword. Lehi

I know what you mean. you are not faceless anymore. I really disliked that I could go into a church and attend and nobody would care to get to know you. but then again with every family there is also quarrel if one does not pay mind to it. But yes, I agree. There is a peace that settles on a sunday when you lay your heart out

So, you're saying that is is not because they are women that he denigrates those he does, but only those he has no use for? That is not the same thing as having little respect for them because they're women. It's useless women he doesn't like. But he has no respect for useless men, either, so it's not sexism, it's "utilitism": the useful are respected, the useless not. I am not seeing this as irretrievably wicked. Any employer uses those he hires for his own economic purposes. (Well, not Bill "BJ" Clinton: he hires them for, er, other purposes.) He uses their talents, their skills, their abilities. If not, he's a fool. It seems you're intent on believing every evil thing the adversarial media publishes about the man. I despise the media more than I despise Hitliary, and I trust them even less. They're willing to invent stories about their political enemies (Dan Blather, anyone?), and it's evident that they will shade the truth without qualm. It's not what they do publish, it's what they do not; it's not what they write, it's how they write it. The mediocre poet, but good philosopher, William Blake wrote: A Truth that's told with bad intent Beats all the lies you can invent. I usually use this quotation when responding to antis, but it fits here just as well. Again, I do not like Trump: there are far better candidates out there. But if there is a chance he can keep O'bama II (or Clinton III, however you see it) out of the Oval Office, I'll vote for him in a tight Colorado race. I'll hold my nose and, yes, choose the lesser of two evils — because to do otherwise is to choose the greater of two evils. Lehi

personally id rather be commanded to live polagamy or polyandry than be commanded to take up arms such as the israelites were in the OT

um...a woman?

In essence, yes. And this "scheme" was a win-win — it was designed by Father. AntiSocial inSecurity, on the other hand, may not have been the first, but it is certainly among the most abominable Ponzi schemes. It's legal, but it's morality is non-existent: another lose-lose. Lehi

I got married young by today’s standards. I was 20 years old. Getting married young and starting to have kids right away has been the most intense learning experience of my life. And 16 years later I’m still learning and growing. For me, this has been the best way I could learn about my Heavenly Father and His work to “bring about the immortality and eternal life” of His children. He is, after all, first and foremost a father. What better way to learn about Him than by becoming a parent myself and relying on Him for help in my parental role. I think humans are given such varying life experiences because we each have our own individual journey. We all learn in different ways and are each on a different level of learning. So, yes, we should be focused on learning to grow closer to the character and intelligence of God in the context of the experiences He chooses to send to us individually. Turn to Him in all things and ask what He would have you learn from your current circumstances.

Again, the most important thing is for us to be disciples of Christ and do things in His time. If a person impatiently gets married/has kids before the time, that is not well. If a person selfishly refuses the Lord's prompting to get married/have kids, that is not well. If a person fails to grow in the Lord at any time, that is not well.

You can do both....but, learning is always a great idea. We are taught in the Book of Mormon that prayer, fasting, and study is how you grow your testimony. If your testimony is not growing, it is shrinking.....

It doesn't hurt to tell you Mormon bishop your interest. He might even let you help before you're baptized.

Um...s-u-r-e, wink, wink... I know you have signed some kind of non-disclosure agreement with the CIA Library to keep those parties hush-hush. Librarian code of silence.

Iggy, I am a librarian by trade and I would love to eventually be called as librarian. I haven't even been baptized yet, but that would be soooo cool!

Elsewhere, a commenter opined that maybe they should just get little fetus tramp stamps for each one, like fighter pilots marking their kills on the plane, so the next sperm donor can keep track.

I have actually no words whatsoever... this is pretty deranged and sad... Well, I guess such people stand out as a warning what happens if you delete your brain with hipster coffee and overdose on liberal ideas with a pinch of political correctness and entitlement.

It may take a bit of a time investment, but the Venn Diagram between one of the groups discussed and the "Natural Man" is pretty much overlapping... It's a 5 part series, but parts 1-3 are really the "payload". https://youtu.be/W8N3FF_3KvU?list=PLMNj_r5bccUw40CpD-JYXJyVsDYsj7ITD

Sometimes logic is so far from the discussion and personal opinion so far from the mark it is obvious that someone has not done their homework and is offended by simple truth. Example, someone(s) is having trouble trying to get some electrical device to work. You can feel the anger in their 4 letter words. So you walk up, tap someone on the shoulder and say, "Maybe if you plugged it in." Oddly enough the longer they have thought their anger at the device was justified (something is wrong with it) - the more they will hate you for telling them the answer is pilot error. And if it has anything to do with religion or politics - not only will they hate you but they will not believe it. Even if it is the bright sun of noon day - they will say it is night. The Traveler

well your family is definitely more important than here, glad to hear all the great news