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"Modesty", when properly understood, is about being humble in thought/deed/word/appearance. It is the opposite of being boastful. And I find that people errantly try to make it all about appearance, especially a girl's hem line. That bothers me. As to how to better teach this: stress that modesty = humble. I would even have an entire lesson on modesty where talking about clothes is banned-- just so that other aspects of this important topic can actually get talked about. And yes, it's an issue that equally affects both genders.

You mean like after a man has enter his 30's or has gotten married and has had decades of experience keeping his appetites and passions within the bounds the Lord has set? Sure. This goes back to what I wrote earlier. These lessons are generally aimed at teenagers or people in their early 20's who are learning to control their sexuality, not abuse it, and courting and wooing. For the latter case (the older young people), we've been taught that there are wheat and tares in the Church. Which are you attracting? For teenagers, responsible mentors (parents, leaders, etc) should come right out and say "There's a lot of power in the engine of a car. It will kill you. It will kill your friends. Any time your friends are driving I want you to live by this rule: You will do nothing that will distract the driver! -- You do not touch the radio unless the driver says you can. You do not control the temperature, the driver does. Pranks, surprises, and tomfoolery are all kinds of fun at home and in the parking lot, but on the road there is none of that." Each family may draw the line at a different place, but there will be a line drawn and it will be bright. I don't see why it should be any different for teenagers learning to steer through relationships and sexual power. Clear lines should be drawn and saints help each other, even in their youth.

Wishing David all the best in this difficult journey ahead. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/12/entertainment/david-archuleta-american-idol-lgbtqia-trnd/index.html https://deadline.com/2021/06/david-archuleta-says-he-is-part-of-lgbtqia-plus-community-talks-crisis-of-faith-1234774238/

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/modesty?lang=eng Just in case anyone wants to measure the percentage.

You need to chill out

Nevermind

1. I fear you’re again falling into the trap of making “modesty” all about (or even just “mostly” about) sex. Even “For the Strength of Youth” doesn’t do this. It reads, in relevant part, Your body is sacred. Respect it and do not defile it in any way. Through your dress and appearance, you can show that you know how precious your body is. You can show that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ and that you love Him. Prophets of God have continually counseled His children to dress modestly. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and you can be a good influence on others. Your dress and grooming influence the way you and others act. Never lower your standards of dress. Do not use a special occasion as an excuse to be immodest. When you dress immodestly, you send a message that is contrary to your identity as a son or daughter of God. You also send the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval. Immodest clothing is any clothing that is tight, sheer, or revealing in any other manner. Young women should avoid short shorts and short skirts, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and clothing that does not cover the shoulders or is low-cut in the front or the back. Young men should also maintain modesty in their appearance. Young men and young women should be neat and clean and avoid being extreme or inappropriately casual in clothing, hairstyle, and behavior. They should choose appropriately modest apparel when participating in sports. The fashions of the world will change, but the Lord’s standards will not change. Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercings. Young women, if you desire to have your ears pierced, wear only one pair of earrings. Show respect for the Lord and yourself by dressing appropriately for Church meetings and activities. This is especially important when attending sacrament services. Young men should dress with dignity when officiating in the ordinance of the sacrament. If you are not sure what is appropriate to wear, study the words of the prophets, pray for guidance, and ask your parents or leaders for help. Your dress and appearance now will help you prepare for the time when you will go to the temple to make sacred covenants with God. Ask yourself, “Would I feel comfortable with my appearance if I were in the Lord’s presence?” Now, if modesty is all about making sure others aren’t tempted to lust after us—how does being neat and clean and avoiding extremes in fashion and grooming, keep people from lusting after us? It’s not (primarily) about the sex; it’s about the messages we send to ourselves, to our God, and—yes—to others. 2). I don’t believe I said that issue of masks is objectively trivial. I did acknowledge that one side views the other side’s concerns as trivial (as the parties to any dispute are wont to do). I think I also stated that wearing a mask at church for a couple of hours (like avoiding wearing immodest sundresses in the same venue) is a trivial concession—as, in fact, it is; except for the spiritually sociopathic jack-donkeys who, as I expressed upthread, “are usually making a countercultural power play—a grownup variant of “I don’t wanna, and you can’t make me, and my sheer obnoxiousness makes me smarter and more virtuous than thou art!!!” Or, to phrase the mentality another way— “I’m gonna get mine, and if you don’t like it you can go to Hell. Maybe literally.”

No. I don't take flu shots.

I saw a review for this on YouTube yesterday. I’m confused as to why Atari thinks this is going to sell. There is nothing really special about it. And it can’t compete with the next-generation consoles, especially at the price they want for it. Am I missing something?

One reason women (and men also) dress modestly is because it is a commandment. They also do it out of respect for themselves and out of respect for others so as not to encourage inappropriate/lustful thoughts. In other words, to help each other live righteously. That is “bearing one another’s burdens.” Wearing a mask does not help anyone live righteously. However, if that person wants to wear a mask themselves, they are welcome to do so if it makes them feel better. More importantly, it’s something they have control over. But no one should be forced or guilted to wear a mask in the name of “bearing one another’s burdens.” That is exploiting a commandment to manipulate members. Again, dressing modestly vs. not wearing a mask are two entirely different things. If wearing masks is as trivial among members as you claim, why was it even a point of discussion in your council meetings?

As I was writing that, I thought to myself “we have come full circle”

It’s just who he is. Don’t take it personal.

Yes! The core of modesty—even under the expansive definition that goes beyond mere sex—has to do with us participating in behavior that we know will elicit a particular reaction from others. In all fairness, I think we should recognize that the male’s reaction to visual stimuli is the result of thousands of years of social conditioning and (if you believe that sort of thing) tens of thousands of years of human evolution. A glib “teach men not to look!” is facile and probably not realistic; especially considering the staggeringly high proportion of modern western males who regularly indulge in pornography. (That doesn’t mean men should stop trying to improve themselves, obviously. But it does mean that as Christians who are all trying to help each other along, we should have a realistic view of what sorts of behaviors tend to undermine our brothers’—or sisters’—progress; and make a conscientious effort to avoid those behaviors where reasonably possible.)

Most of those who claim to be annoyed with such asymmetrical, sexist thought also believe that a woman striking a man, while bad, is much less serious than a man striking a woman. Why? Well, because men tend to be bigger and stronger than women, and when a man strikes a woman, he is (they claim) more likely to cause serious injury than when a woman strikes a man. How vilely sexist! Ho hum. Just more hypocrisy.

...so I did this instead. Shooting Steel with 5.56 Shooting Steel with 5.56 part two

Anciently the concept and expression of righteousness is someone that makes and kept covenants with G-d. Thus we should understand that the righteous are the worthy temple recommend holders. As one reads the sacred scriptures I believe that they can better understand warning and blessing with this understanding of maintaining a current temple recommend. Without any doubt - I believe that in the parable of the 10 virgins that all of those that had oil for their lamps (in our modern age) are worthy temple recommend holders. That for sure those 5 without oil - not one was a "worthy" current temple recommend holder. The Traveler

Often what is thought or believed to be modest or immodest is a part of our culture and traditions. One of the blessings of being from a family with ancestral roots dating back to the first generation of the restoration is, as a young boy hearing stories from my grandparents that remember being children and listening to their grandparents that talked personally with Joseph Smith and were part of the Westward movement to Utah. Some of these stories are recorded but some are preserved by word of mouth. As a youth I was closets to my grandmother Abby. She was an amazing lady that raised 14 children in a 3 bedroom house without running water (a hand pump in the kitchen) or electricity. The kitchen stove was wood fired and a free standing coal stove as heat in the winter. She still lived in that house when I knew her - and I remember when her home was upgraded to running water, electricity and a standing gas heater that stood exposed in the front room where the coal stove use to stand. My grandparents were not considered poor but rather were pillars of their community. Abby wrote regular articles for the Desert News and was Utah Mother of the year (during my lifetime) Why am I telling you this bit of family history? Because my dear grandmother lived most of her life in an era when temple garments covered to ankles and wrists. As styles changed she did not - for personal modesty sake she wore dresses that did not even show here ankles and she never wore something in public that did not cover to her wrists. She also never wore red, which she considered a color devoted to Satan and deliberate immodesty. I recall her telling (teaching) me that in the temple legs and arms were covered as an example of the divine standard of modesty. I have personally witnessed stalwart Saints (ladies) arguing and upset because their chosen wedding dress was not allowed for their temple sealing - which required that they were sealed wearing a different dress than what they wore for the formal pictures after words on the temple grounds. My grandmother would be hart broken that standards of modesty have shifted so. For whatever reason - men's formal wear have not changed so much (with the exception of Hollywood). Men's formal wear still remains the tux - which covers arms and legs. But here is another thought. In my youth the church built our meeting houses with a stand for the bishopric, choir and speakers and all that was between them was the podium and stairs to the stand. I remember when women sitting on the stand became a problem as the dress length was shortened to the knees and women on the stand were often unaware (I think they were unaware). Ladies were encouraged to wear longer dresses when sitting on the stand - but for whatever reason the warnings were not headed by all. Finely a new standard was adopted and a wall was built at the edge of the stand that prevented anyone sitting on the stand from an "immodest" display. I do not know why women seem to be the primary problem of immodesty. It seems that in our modern society that any suggestion why women are the primary problem is received as "sexism" - especially if coming from any priesthood holder. Somewhere there is a major disconnect and misunderstanding. And that disconnect and misunderstanding prevents a honest discussion - at least among some - concerning this subject. The Traveler

I would say no. Part of modesty is not standing out... but to do that the cultural standards (And yes our dress code is a cultural standard) need to be taught... And the farther away the church and the world gets from having the same standards the more important it is that they standard is communicated clearly. Or to put it another way... one can't use their agency to disobey a command... until the command is given. Either can one choose to disobey a cultural standard until they know what that standard is.

Those are two different kinds of drawing attention to oneself, one being sexual in nature and the other being weird/artistic/socially non-conforming, counter-cultural or subversive. If intentional, it is done in the spirit of pride. If unintentional, it is simply unwise and hopefully receptive to correction. In either case, if it is not drawing attention to Christ, or getting in the way of that, why do it? There are also overt and excessive, and subtle and culturally acceptable ways of drawing attention to oneself sexually or socially/culturally, and intentionally and not. Having the name of Christ upon us, I think we are happiest when we are willing and strive to dress and groom ourselves in a way that draws people to Him. President Nelson recently said ("Let God Prevail" in October 2020): "When your greatest desire is to let God prevail, to be part of Israel, so many decisions become easier. So many issues become nonissues! You know how best to groom yourself. You know what to watch and read, where to spend your time, and with whom to associate. You know what you want to accomplish. You know the kind of person you really want to become." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/10/46nelson?lang=eng Elder Bednar reiterated this (April 2021): "Note how many crucial decisions and life experiences can be influenced by the principle of being willing to let God prevail: dating and marriage, gospel questions and concerns, temptation, personal grooming, what to watch and read, where to spend time, with whom to associate, and many, many more." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/56bednar?lang=eng

Yeah he does that in other discussions as well... All you can really do in not to engage any further. That is pretty much it... And as a church we do talk about it... But usually not under the heading of modesty, but rather as a bits an pieces in parts of other gospel discussions. I do not consider it an abandonment of the topic but an acknowledgment of its integration

I’ve decided modesty includes how we present ourselves through our dress, words, and actions. I’m simply trying to expand the conversation itself beyond “is that woman showing too much skin?”

I have been thinking. When I was in Jr High (7th grade) certain classes were required. One class was called Health. It was required (in Utah) that students take Health all through Jr. High and High school. Part of the class was called “First Aid”. The essence of first aid was what to do in a crisis – in other words the theme of first aid was that you (average Joe or Joann) are the first responder. I am not sure when it happened but EMT, firemen and policemen now have the title of “First Responders”. I think this is a big mistake. I believe that free citizens in a free state are the first responders even if their initial response is to call 911. As a side note – when I was a kid there was no 911. If you could get to a phone you waited for the operator or dialed zero for the operator. Back then phone operators were “trained” to handle all kinds of problems and questions. In the parable of the Good Samaritan, not only was the Samaritan the real responder he was the only responder. My point concerning the Good Samaritan is that if you are not willing to be an actual first responder while traveling through life’s journey (leaving such to others) – you cannot say that you love your neighbor (meaning you are good to have as a neighbor). The Traveler

What suppressor are you running? That was…. exceptionally quiet.

I've been buying my 5 box limit of 5.56 every other day. 19,000 more rounds to buy.

Again not speaking for anyone but myself... What makes you think I have waited? I am perfectly capable of understanding and even empathizing with a point of view without agreeing with it or thinking it is the path the Lord would have me take personally.

I can't speak for @NeedleinA but I can speak for my own concerns. I do not know what the FDA skipped to grant EUA... but the fact that they skipped something to grant the EUA is evident in the fact that it is a EUA and not a normal approval. We are told to trust the science and trust the experts... So should we be trusting the science and experts when they say the full process is necessary to insure safety or should we be trusting the science and experts now when they say the full process isn't necessary? Or to greatly simplify... where they lying to us then? Or are they lying to us now? And if we catch them in any lie why would we trust them at all? And if they weren't lying before and they are not lying now... that means the current vaccine didn't get all the checks it should (aka an emergency shortening of the process) then it become completely understandable for people to say... No thanks I'll wait for the full completion as a matter of protecting there own personal health.

In law school (not BYU) I was told “A good speech is like a good skirt—long enough to cover the basics, short enough to keep things interesting.”

Confucius say, "Woman with no principle, generate lots of interest." (with almost everybody - men and women) It would seem that "Men with no principle, are avoided. (especially anyone with an IQ above room temperature) The Traveler