Really?

[mikbone]

A friend of the family posted the above this AM.  They showed up at the chapel @ 9 AM.  Location - Bear Lake Idaho - which is a vacation destination.

My wife’s response…

Marching ever onward to the Telestial kingdom:

More room available in the Relief Society room, every classroom and on the stage. Please make yourself comfortable. We will build more churches as fast as we can.   *There. fixed it.

[NeuroTypical]

Yep.   Our meetinghouses handle stuff like that pretty well, what with 1, 2, or even 3 overflows into the basketball courts available.  Plus sound piped in to the RS rooms, foyers, and maybe other rooms as needed.  Give us notice and we can probably find the old equipment that broadcasts across an AM band so you can hear it in your car.

[Ironhold]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

A friend of the family posted the above this AM.  They showed up at the chapel @ 9 AM.  Location - Bear Lake Idaho - which is a vacation destination.

My wife’s response…

Marching ever onward to the Telestial kingdom:

More room available in the Relief Society room, every classroom and on the stage. Please make yourself comfortable. We will build more churches as fast as we can.   *There. fixed it.

IRL, a lot of jurisdictions have it that the fire marshal can declare what a particular maximum occupancy is. 

It's hypothetically possible that in this case, they're at maximum occupancy. 

Best thing to do would be to ask about that. 

[laronius]

Apparently they have three meeting times. That sounds fairly accommodating to me. I think administering the sacrament is a significant logistical factor.

[mikbone]

We used to have meetings outside.  Would be nice on a pretty day like today.

I feel like a saving ordinance trumps the fire marshal.   

D&C 6:32 Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as touching one thing, behold, there will I be in the midst of them—even so am I in the midst of you.

Edited September 2, 2024 by mikbone

[askandanswer]

In our Branch we could post this notice every week...... if we met in the janitor's room  

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

I feel like a saving ordinance trumps the fire marshal.  

It's not a saving ordinance. And it wouldn't anyhow. Even endowment sessions must abide by the law that we believe in honoring and obeying.

[JohnsonJones]

9 hours ago, mikbone said:

We used to have meetings outside.  Would be nice on a pretty day like today.

I feel like a saving ordinance trumps the fire marshal.   

D&C 6:32 Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as touching one thing, behold, there will I be in the midst of them—even so am I in the midst of you.

Until there's a fire and half of the congregation dies in a fiery inferno of sacramental destruction. 

Looking at that picture it appears people are smashed together in standing room only all the way to the glass doors!  That's pretty full.

If they would do what they did during the Pandemic and allow people to bless their own sacrament as long as they were a Priest or higher it could alleviate situations like this I supposed.

It used to be allowed that we could do these things in our homes as things were necessitated, especially the further you lived from a Ward or church building. 

I'm not sure WHY they ended it.  Normally I can see why it would not be needed, but in situations like the Original Post atop this topic, I could see it being a useful measure to have as a backup. 

[mikbone]

Just build a bigger chapel.   

Or post some speakers outside under the eaves so those in the parking lot can hear the prayer.  Use more priesthood to carry bread and water.

If it has become such an issue that you have to get a professional sign made and post it weekly then you are failing.  

Sometimes we use society’s rules to try to solve our problems.  In the Restored Church I would hope that we would try harder.  

During my internship we had a medical emergency, on a Christmas day the roads froze over and we had 20+ MVAs in an hour.  

We were overwhelmed.  We treated people in the hallways and outside in the parking lot.  Our sterile techniques were less than the standard.  But we saved lives.

How would you have felt if you showed up to a hospital with a loved one dying that could have lived with the simple placement of a chest tube.  And you were greeted by the above sign?

I recall many scripture references when people wanted to listen to, see, or touch Jesus.  In almost every instance he made arrangements to accommodate those believers.

[mikbone]

In the home ward of my youth (Dallas Texas) I remember passing the sacrament every week outside of the chapel and into the overflow areas. Occasionally we had to refill the water and bread and re-bless the emblems.  

I never found it irritating.  

Edited September 2, 2024 by mikbone

[mirkwood]

1.  There are laws about maximum occupancy.  

 

2.  I saw a picture allegedly of this particular building with masses of people outside and comments that every room inside was already occupied.

[pam]

All I gotta say is, "good for those people who still went to church while on vacation."    

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, pam said:

All I gotta say is, "good for those people who still went to church while on vacation."    

I was just thinking of the time we had more ward leadership at sacrament meeting in the tiny little town in a hunter's paradise, than we did in our ward building.  

[Ironhold]

6 hours ago, mikbone said:

Just build a bigger chapel.   

Things like that go all the way up to Salt Lake, and as you can imagine just even getting permission takes time. Then a site has to be selected, construction has to take place, and the wards & branches have to be re-aligned. Once that happens, the priesthood organization for what will be meeting out of that building has to be called and ordained. We're literally looking at *years* for something like this.

In contrast, a sign printer can knock something like that sign out in under a day if they're not already booked. 

That's the issue.

[mikbone]

Oh I understand the issue.

We live in a litigious society.  I can’t send my kids on any significant church activity without a release form.

Every time I read a radiology report I get a detailed list of what the radiologist thinks it might be just in-case… Instead of just giving a professional opinion of what he or she thinks they see in the image.  

You know those yellow bumpy ‘safety’ strips outside of stores on sidewalks etc.  I have never seen one help anybody.  On the contrary I have had dozens of patients trip, fall and break bones on the death-traps. As well as break items in my grocery cart.

I had a place of business with a single exit and one of the local members came over for a ‘professional courtesy’ visit.  After visiting the men’s room he related to me that I needed to update my emergency escape maps in the office and that he could do it for a reasonable price.

It goes on and on….

 

Edited September 2, 2024 by mikbone

[mikbone]

 

3 Ne 27:21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;

Edited September 2, 2024 by mikbone

[LDSGator]

37 minutes ago, mikbone said:

You know those yellow bumpy ‘safety’ strips outside of stores on sidewalks etc

What are they for?

Edited September 2, 2024 by LDSGator

[mikbone]

3 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

What are they for?

I’m sure a safety expert will inform us.

[pam]

46 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

What are they for?

They are ADA pads used to let a person who is visually impaired know they are at the entrance to the store. So as far as calling them "death traps" consider what someone visually impaired goes through all of the time. 

[LDSGator]

27 minutes ago, pam said:

They are ADA pads used to let a person who is visually impaired know they are at the entrance to the store. So as far as calling them "death traps" consider what someone visually impaired goes through all of the time. 

Agree. Thanks. 

[mikbone]

3 hours ago, pam said:

They are ADA pads used to let a person who is visually impaired know they are at the entrance to the store. So as far as calling them "death traps" consider what someone visually impaired goes through all of the time. 

https://nkytribune.com/2017/12/keven-moore-truncated-domes-cause-injuries-and-are-unsafe-not-at-all-what-they-were-meant-to-be/

See also

https://abilitytools.org/blog/the-pros-and-cons-of-truncated-domes-should-one-disability-trump-another/

I’m not sure where these truncated domes originated.  But I bet it was not requested by the visually impaired.  

I do know that a whole industry was invented by the ADA.

As stated before.  I know they are dangerous for the unsteady, aged, and those with canes and wheelchairs.  Which happens to greatly outnumber the blind.  They are also a hassle for the non-handicapped.

The amount of money that business must expend to retrofit their store fronts can be extensive as well.  Little things like this add up and destroy the hopes of personal business owners.

Sure it looks like a loving solution at first glance.  But sometimes our ‘solutions’ are worse than benign neglect.

First do no harm.

Edited September 3, 2024 by mikbone

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 9/1/2024 at 5:38 PM, laronius said:

Apparently they have three meeting times. That sounds fairly accommodating to me. I think administering the sacrament is a significant logistical factor.

I have seen church in the past be at 5 different times throughout the day, and that was when we had the three hour block.

Edited September 4, 2024 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[Ironhold]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I have seen church in the past be at 5 different times throughout the day, and that was when we had the three hour block.

Yeah, a lot of congregations would also stagger their start and stop times so that one congregation would be in the chapel while the other was doing Sunday school. It's not the best way of doing things, but if it has to be done it has to be done. 

Again, it takes a while to get a new chapel built. 

[Jamie123]

There aren't many churches around here that would need a sign like that! This one must be doing something right!

I agree though. Instead of turning people away they should have held the service outside.

[Carborendum]

It is so easy to judge others, isn't it?