Leaderboard

I agree with MOE's approach generally, and sympathize with you (even though I don't agree 100%) here as well--up to your last sentence. To say that no one can define the baptismal covenants or covenantal obligations like obedience, or chastity, or consecration; is to come awfully close to a) hamstringing the Church's ability to teach any kind of absolute morality--about anything; and b ) undermine the authority of those whose stewardship it is to evaluate our covenant-keeping (bishops and stake presidents, for example). I can visualize suggesting that under the OP's circumstances it may be a necessary evil (though part of me is thinking, really? Exactly what credible medical organization has indicated masturbation as a medically necessary treatment for anything?); but in my book suggesting it's not even evil (or only subjectively so) goes way too far and (pardon the pun) sows the seed for a lot of unhappiness and heartache for those who take such advice.

I think the best thing I've heard was in relation to tithing - it's all in how we look at it. Instead of looking at it as I have to give up 10%, try looking at it as I get to keep 90%! The money didn't belong to us in the first place - it isn't an absolute that we get any set amount of money so look at the 90% as a gift instead of looking at the 10% as a burden. It is a spiritual principle that never fails.

Maybe it's just me, but the OP seemed pretty clear about not getting an abortion. The extent of her mention of it was that it makes her sick, despite what she's been taught. I don't think she's entertaining the idea at all. To the OP: I'm going to take a different tactic here. (1) Are you taking a prenatal vitamin yet? The early weeks are the most important for getting adequate folic acid (as well as iron and other vitamins). (2) Have you seen a doctor yet? You should see one for the first time around 7-9 weeks at the latest. The doctor can also help counsel you (non-spiritually) on your options, and will likely (hopefully) respect your wish not to abort. (3) Educate yourself. My favorite pregnancy book is Your Pregnancy Week by Week, by Glade Curtis and Judith Schuler. (4) Make sure you have an adequate support network. Family, friends, church leaders. Don't try to isolate yourself and be alone in your trouble. Do your penance in other ways...you will need support. When you see your doctor, ask about local groups affiliated with the hospital.

Everyone has a bishop. Regardless of where your records are, you can talk to your local Bishop. Bishops have stewardships over their AREA... not just their ward. Find a Bishop near you. Don't worry if he'll be 'your' Bishop or not. Let him help you figure that out. You need someone to talk to, in person, and to discuss possible options with LDS Adoption Serivces. https://www.lds.org/maps/?lang=eng#ll= Here's another GREAT website I'd recommend reviewing: https://itsaboutlove.org/ial/ct/pregnant?lang=eng Apparently free pregnancy counseling is available. Just contact them.

I have been bothered enough by this to speak up. Simply put, from a gospel perspective, this is not an option. Do not deceive yourself. You could be forgiven...but it is not guaranteed. This is not a cavalier thing and you run great, great risk. You know better. Forgiveness for intentionally ending a life when you darned well know better? Well...no one can say absolutely. It is the Lord's to judge. But the risk you are taking in approaching it with this as an "option" is beyond monumental. I cannot state this strongly enough. Take this option off the table!

My interpretation of the OP isn't that masturbation is a treatment for a condition, but rather that the treatment the OP is receiving for some unknown condition is something that hugely increases his hormones to the point of needing release. The masturbation would be a way to relieve side effects of treatment.

I wonder about my eyes being closed: What visual perceptions do I have when I close my eyes for the night? Do I see anything but darkness? Do I see black, true black or is there any hints of color without pushing on my eyelids just with my eyes closed? What does my brain do with the darkness? Why don't I get bored looking at nothing all night long? (It seems to be that there must be something going on) What happens before I dream? Do we "turn off attention" in the darkness? Do we percieve it at all? Do all people have the same or different experiences with their eyes closed? hmmmmmm...

hey Can we have voice here when we can hear each others voice or am I asking for too much lol

I am not in the salt lake area but that sound like it could be fun. It wouldn't need to be limited to paladins... but it does seem you are asking for an all lawful good game and that could be interesting

MormonMama, this thread is from before the new videos were released, and they are longer than they used to be.

I agree with MOE's approach generally, and sympathize with you (even though I don't agree 100%) here as well--up to your last sentence. To say that no one can define the baptismal covenants or covenantal obligations like obedience, or chastity, or consecration; is to come awfully close to a) hamstringing the Church's ability to teach any kind of absolute morality--about anything; and b ) undermine the authority of those whose stewardship it is to evaluate our covenant-keeping (bishops and stake presidents, for example). I chose the wording of that last sentence very carefully. I'm not attempting or meaning to dismiss a bishop's stewardship (or other Priesthood leader) in matters of discipline, worthiness or counsel. My statement was that my covenants are between me and the Lord. Others can share their own experiences. Leaders can teach foundations. But my convenants, the ones I agree to, those are between me and my God. I am the best person to interpret how God communicates with me. Just as you are the best person to interpret how God communicates with you. A bishop may counsel me that I'm wrong, and I'll listen to him. He also reserves the right to revoke my temple recommend if they feel I'm not keeping my covenants. But I am comfortable in my obedience of those promises. So again I'll say that no one (but God) has the right to tell me what the covenants I've made mean to me. Interestingly, I've not indicated in this thread that I'm pro-masturbation, which I imagine more than a few are thinking. Simply that I don't feel that it's something about which I've made covenants. If I were in the OP's situation (assuming this is the situation), I would seriously consider both my doctor's and my bishop's counsel and advice. I'd recognize that my bishop isn't medically trained, and doesn't understand biology or human chemistry. I'd also acknowledge that my doctor is limited by human knowledge, and may not understand that all God's commandments are spiritual in nature.

I think it is unnecessary because there is absolutely zero reproducible evidence that there is any harm in consuming genetically modified foods. We've been doing it for centuries. I don't see any reason to get concerned about it now.

Everything WILL be okay!!!! Please, do not consider abortion. I have a friend that has been involved with it. It troubles them, and that is putting it nicely. Forgiveness for something of such a serious nature, especially when one has the knowledge that it is grievous, is much more difficult than raising a child or choosing adoption. Wanting peace in your life, wanting to go back to church, wanting to get married in the temple- these are all things that you can have and can do! You can have a happy marriage. You can have a happy family. God has not left you and he never will. Go to church and meet the Bishop. Satan will try to make you think that everyone at church is perfect or only has minor problems. I can tell you that is most certainly not the case and very far from the truth. We all have our problems and we are all in need of the atonement. Spiritually, it does not matter where you are at, only the direction you are traveling. You are not alone. Jesus Christ knows you and how you feel. He knows your pain, your sorrow, and despair. From the Savior himself: "For the Father himself aloveth you, because ye have loved me, and have bbelieved that I came out from God." "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might haveapeace. In the bworld ye shall have ctribulation: but be of gooddcheer; I have eovercome the world." (John 16:27,33) Remember to think of the good and try to be happy in your tribulations. The Messiah has overcome the world so that we can have happiness here. Things might be really tough right now, but they will get better. In the end, repentance always brings the peace of forgiveness and the comfort of healing. You can do this.

I believe it was repentance, not prayer, and I quoted it. Well, I tried to strike a civil tone but discussion is not your aim. You're finding all kinds of ways of being hostle just for the sake of being hostle. There's no room for discussion so I'm moving on.

Yay you!

Happy Birthday!

I agree with notquiteperfect. Being pregnant is not a good reason to get married to someone and be miserable the rest of your life. Oh...and by the way. Everything will be okay. Particularly if you turn back to God and the gospel.

May the One Ring fall into your hands this day!

Of course you realize that we'll next find out that this has nothing to do with libido and the OP is trying to decide whether or not to take the doctors' suggestion to drink tea.

hello I was using a friends my phone and saw that it was your birthday and had to log in to wish you a very happy birthday

Happy Birthday !!!

It seems you have the same approach to addiction as most everyone else who has not experienced this first or second hand and that is just saying that repentance is all that's needed. It's much more complicated than that. The repentance process includes self discovery so that the addiction can be overcome, thus, the 12 step program. As a part of that, therapy and even medication may be in the mix. Elder Hollands talk titled "Like a Broken Vessel" gives a pretty good primer about this. One quote from that talk is: "...a crater in the mind so deep that no one can responsibly suggest it would surely go away if those victims would just square their shoulders and think more positively—though I am a vigorous advocate of square shoulders and positive thinking!" Pres. Ballard talked about repentance from addiction in his talk "O That Cunning Plan of the Evil One." His answer is that to start, fervent prayer is needed. But there is a need to go through the process whether it's with counseling with the Bishop or a therapist. For myself, I would not have been able to go through the repentance process if I didn't have medication that helped me be able to think clearly. So please don't just stay with the "prayer and the Atonement" is the answer. It is, but for someone starting out, they need to get to that place where they can make the Atonement work for them. And that takes a lot of work. Sometimes even stepping away from the church until they can get their bearings straight (as it was for me when I was ex'd). I believe that's where the statement of you not having empathy for the afflicted is coming from; the overly-simplified answer of repent will fix everything and that we've been taught since our primary days. Life is more complicated than that and while you are correct that repentance is a very necessary ingredient, there are other ingredients that are needed. The first ingredient being an acknowledgement and confession that a persons life has become insane and unmanageable, the second is being willing to let God take control and their sins and third, letting him do just that. And that just for starters. It's not easy to immediately turn to the Atonement when one is in the throws of addiction.

I agree. He's one of my favorites on the site. Just love this guy. :)

A Birthday couldn't happen to a more like-able soul Have a great day!

Happy Birthday. Hope you have a good day.

Remember the Titans

I hope no one finds this post arrogant or condescending. I have not had a time in my life that we sometimes call a time of inactivity. I have had my times of doubt. I have always been curious and I have on a number of occasions considered the possibility that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not divinely led and uniquely separated from all other institutions – both religious and intellectual. Even as I create this post there are many things the concern me but by in large I am amazed at the wonder of things and what the church offers. I also have come to understand that there is a fascinating and wonderful symmetry between things physical and things spiritual. Perhaps you have seen in many threads that I believe the spiritual and physical to be complementary rather than opposing or opposite. The temple garment – to me is a wonderful example of spiritual and physical symmetry. No doubt the garment is a physical object that has spiritual connections. According to our covenants the garment is a shield and a protection. Some wonder if the fabric is that much of a physical protection. Obviously the fabric is not much protection of itself. But when spiritually empowered – like the liahona - when the physical commitment is complemented with spiritual righteousness there exist (as I have experienced) a profound and realizable integration of both physical and spiritual protection. I was taught and believe that the garment is both spiritually sacred and physically precious and should be treated and cared for – both while being worn and when removed for cleaning or being stored to be worn later. And that we ought to often put on and renew ourselves with a fresh clean change in our garment as well with our personal hygiene. We should clean ourselves up often and keep ourselves presentable – avoiding sloppiness – both physically and spiritually. Such efforts, I believe make a difference both physically and spiritually.

Wow, this is a massive assumption. You mean because viewing a little porn at night hasn't destroyed the relationship immediately that everything is normal and healthy.... Pornography has no boundaries. Families of all races, beliefs, religion and cultures are being slowly unstitched by this addiction. LDS members can often appear to unravel quicker than others because the addiction is often associated with the breaking of eternal covenants. The church is so concerned about pornography that it has even published a website dedicated to overcoming the addiction.

So, as a matter of interest, do you really think there is universal judgment by the church members, or do you think that perhaps it is more a perception of universal judgement by those feeling judged. I say this in that I have been on both sides of the coin, many times. I have felt judged, and I have been accused of judging. In most cases where I am accused of judging I am, actually, quite empathetic, having experienced sin and the begging for mercy (rather consistently, I might add). It is my view that the church, at large, does much less judging than it is accused of, and that the perception of judgment is significantly higher than the reality. Accordingly there is a defensive response that is excessively nonproportional to the problem.

Perhaps I still miss the point of what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting it is better if we just move on after sinning as if nothing happened? I agree it is a problem when someone agonizes over sin endlessly, because when the atoning power of Christ heals them it is the end of it, but if the agony is not ceasing this can be a good impetus to seek out the atoning healing. Outside of the church people haven't made covenants of obedience and are less accountable, so moving on for them is more of an option, but even then if they choose to be baptized they will need to confront this.

It's a good thought, but it's also presuming something that I do not believe to be universally true -- that is, that the church and it's members dialog is promoting some sort of sweeping depression, resignation, etc... Satan, of course, would promote such a response to any of God's principles and words, no matter how they are spoken. So I agree with the principle you've stated, but I do not agree that the church and it's members attitude towards the dangers of pornography and the like are prompting some sort of mass depression across its membership. But even if such a blanket depression existed, I would look to Satan's principles as the culprit rather than God and the church's. To me the culture of "don't feel shame", "you're not to blame", "it's not that big of a deal", "the church is overreacting", etc., etc., is more likely to influence these negative responses in people than the truth -- that sin is, in actuality, a big deal. These sorts of statements teach people that the church is oppressive to them, and thereby encourages depressive ideologies. Whereas the church teaches the only true means to joy -- which is repentance and faith on Jesus Christ.

Well, "freak" was her word, of course. What I'm taking exception to is a concept. Specifically: "Non-LDS don't blink at porn & MB... But LDS-culture freaks, I posit, again because of the novelty." The implication being that we, also, shouldn't blink at porn and MB? Or that we somehow shouldn't take them as seriously as we do. As if the the only reason we have to be highly concerned with people looking at porn is because it's a novelty for us. I don't think so. Moreover, the whole idea that shame is unhealthy and that removing shame would somehow fix the problems is misguided. If a person has involved themselves in something shameful they should feel shame. Taking away the shame of it is not going to help people feel "godly sorrow". They're not mutually exclusive one to another. And removing the shame is more likely to enable the negative behavior than to help them feel "godly sorrow". Anyhow, what are you saying godly sorrow is that shame is not? Disappointing one's parents is not a valid motivation, but disappointing God is? The church and it's members have no responsibility to alleviate people's feelings of guilt for sin. The leaders of the church will continue to warn against the dangers of sin, as they should, and we should support and sustain them in this, as well as warning others just as adamantly. Ultimately, my contention, is that her post implied that the member's response to such things is freaking, or, as you put it, responding irrationally, and I highly disagree. These things are so incredibly dangerous to our souls that, if anything, people are not responding intently enough to their severity. What does qualify as a viable thing to freak at? Someone sticking their hand in the fire? A kid running out into traffic? Someone playing with a loaded gun? Are people's souls less valuable to us than their safety and their lives? We freak because we care.

Supporters of Justina are appealing to the Governor of Massachussetts. He's apparently drunk the DCF Koolaid however--claiming that there is a history of neglect in the Pelletier home. The problem is that his information seems bogus on the face of it. Mass DCF has never been to the Pelletier home (in Connecticut). This case is about alleged medical neglect, not home environment in general. The governor appears to be talking out of both sides of his mouth though, because after this powerful public official accuses the parents of neglect, he says its the courts call, not his. http://michaelgraham.com/deval-claims-there-was-neglect-in-the-home-of-justina-pelletier-is-he-lying/

Are you kidding me? Porn is only a big deal because we're not used to it? It is a sin. It is a major deal. It is a major problem. Just because the rest of the world doesn't consider it a problem is irrelevant. A sin is a sin and it is NOT relative. Morality is NOT relative. God sets the standards for what we should and should not "freak" at, not the world.

Wrong. Habakkuk is in the Old Testament. The correct answer to that question (I believe) would be Zephaniah. Oh, oh! I know!! Okay, I'm confused. You keep dodging questions by saying things like "that's scripture related." What is the Gospel, if you exclude the Scriptures?

Sounds like I am mistaken about the buying garments comment... my bad, sorry. Either way my primary advice is to talk to the bishop, that still stands.

Well duh.

Are scriptural epochs enhanced metaphorically to be more prophetic and to teach eternal principles?

"Grandpa? Maybe you can come and read it to me again tomorrow?" "As you wish."

Oh actually I have. It's a great movie. I've just seen it too many times. While I used to work at Walmart, they used to have this movie playing in the break room ALL the time for some reason. This led to me getting very tired of it. After that, it was Home Alone 2. Anyway, here's a funny pic some of you may remember.

So you put down your rock, and I put down my sword.. and we kill each other like civilized people? Edit: wingnut took all the ones I was going to post originally lol

All of the above, and the above, and... I'm not a witch! I'm your wife! To the pain. Inconceivable! Rodents of unusual size. MOSTLY dead. ____________ The priest at my wedding I bribed to start the service (without telling anyone else ahead of time), just a moment before walking down the aisle on sudden impulse. I didn't know if he'd actually do, it, though. He did! "Wuv. Twue wuv....." Before his real beginning. There was this thunderclap of laughter, followed by hundreds of hands slapped over mouths. It. Was. Beautiful. Everyone knew instantly it was me who'd done it. Oy. It took me until this very moment, though, to realize I really DID marry Humperdink! Whoops. Now I have TWO promptings from the Spirit that day that I totally ignored that day. Le sigh. Never been a smart one, over here. Q

Is this a kissing book? Why won't my arms move? --You've been mostly dead all day.

Thank you so much LP for your insight and thoughts. I am so sorry that you had that experience, it definitely was not a safe place for you to go with the pain and the shame you were already feeling. That must have been so hard, especially if it just reinforced those things for which you were trying to find healing for. I understand everything you are saying and have taken note. We so especially do not want to come across as Peter Priesthood and Molly Mormon and that is why we will be dressed in blue jeans and sneakers to fit in with everybody, so it's not a 'us' and 'them' type situation but of course keeping the necessary boundaries. I want it to be such a safe place for everybody to share what they feel they want to. I totally agree with the validation as well. People will only share in a place that they feel safe enough to do so, so that's very important. I just look in the manual at all the quotes and stuff and it scares me, as I so don't want to teach as I would a lesson, but teach in a way that's very experiential and interactive. Therefore, I am going to have to find a way to use the material but not in a teachy way if that makes sense. :) Thanks once again for sharing. :) *Hugs*

OK, it's a bit of fluff, but Ingrid Bergman is so beautiful and Cary Grant is at his most Cary-ness, it's hard to resist. I'm talking about 'Indiscreet.' Aside from the furs, why don't women dress that way anymore? The gowns are breathtaking.

Rather than taking the kids out right away, you may consider having one or both of the parents assist for the next few months.

That was not my intention. I've actually thought a lot about this over the last few days. I don't know if you read my post from way early on in this thread or not. But in it, I talk about my friend and his son, and how earlier this year his son legally became his daughter. I've met a few people who were transgender, but I've never actually known someone who was until my friend and his daughter. I was talking with a mutual friend, he told me that our friends son was now officially his daughter. She started hormone therapy at the end of last year, and earlier this year, she did whatever the government required to be legally identified as female, and changed her name. When I first heard about her transition, I was mighty surprised. Then I didn't care. I don't mean that in a heartless, thoughtless way, I mean that this is obviously who she is and what makes her happy. So good for her. I found out that she had started a blog right before she started hormone therapy. She was diligent in updating it too, up until her name change. I read the whole thing. I read about her first time going out in girl mode, all the times she didn't pass and the cruelty that usually went along with that, even her first time shaving her legs. In the end I didn't have any better of an understanding about what transgender is, but I know that this girl knew beyond anything that she had ever known that this is what would make her happy. This wasn't some "phase" she was going through, this was who she was. And she went through hell to realize that. And that's just the last year that I read about in a blog, I can't imagine the years leading up her transition. So I've thought about this a lot over the last few days. Ever since you kicked in the door and accused everyone of saying transgender was a mental disorder. And that transgender people were unworthy of Heavenly Fathers love, and lots of other things that I'm fairly certain were never said but you were sure offended by. I thought you were being over-dramatic so I responded by being overly sarcastic. Whatever the case was, you were clearly upset. And I should have been sympathetic to that when I responded to you and I wasn't. I apologize. I forget that this can be a really sensitive subject for some people and I should be respectful of that.

Wow thank you for that. I don't beleave I've ever auctually seen someone succeed in describing what it's like to have GID.

rameumptom, Please do not take this the wrong way, but I don’t think you fully understand the issue you are discussing here. Are you transgender? Or I prefer to go by Gender Identity Disorder (GID). Being GID is a life long curse that will never go away. The desire or impulse of a GID is just as strong if not stronger than an addiction. The difference; we did not choose this like an addict chooses to partake in a substance. We are borne with this and it will never go away. No amount of abstaining will lessen the want, there is nothing we can take that will feed the desire, and there is nothing we can do to make it go away. It is like being stuck in withdrawal forever with this uncontrolled passion our whole life. The only way out is Gender reassignment surgery, or death. So let me ask you this; do you think about killing yourself if you do not get a drink of alcohol? I know someone earlier said something about killing oneself, but I think it necessary to illustrate what those of us are going through. I understand what you are saying about the church standards and I do agree with you, but I have grown up in the church and fully understand them, and that is why I have decided not to transition. But for someone like Katie with GID that did not grow up in the church, what you are asking her to do is give up that very part of her soul that makes her who she is. Discussing the church standard and where she fit is between her and her Bishop and other priesthood leader. Through prayer, guidance (thorough proper priesthood authority) and personal revelation she can receive answers to her question and even determine the gender of her spirit. This is not something we can discuss here; it is a matter between those with GID and the Lord. Sorry if I cam across harsh or angry, that was not my intention. I only understand far too well what Katie is going through. Not to long ago I was ready to leave the church in order to transition. Your friend in Zion,