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There are scriptures that come to my mind when considering the core question: 1. Matthew 7: 3-5; Luke 6: 41-42 - Judgement is more clear when we first remove the beam from our own eye, and sometimes there is no mote to remove. 2. Doctrine and Covenants 64: 11 - Explaining the concept that we are to let God judge between us. The core concept is that God is not judging from an imperfect knowledge of things, but a perfect knowledge of things. If our knowledge was perfect, neither of the two judgements would be seen as positive or negative as the judgement would be just and true either way. This then induces the question, is one more appropriate then than the other? If one's mercy is wrong and it is enabling, is it then more appropriate than calling out the behavior? I think the world we live in induces this dichotomy -- Don't judge -- you be you -- and I will be me. This is in part why we see what we do today. If no one is willing to call out a behavior as -- bad, not OK, wrong -- then anything goes. Has our Father in heaven created a world where anything goes, or are their rules, laws, and order? 3. In light of #2 - Knowledge - The depth of knowledge, or our closeness to Christ, will ultimately allow us to see things as they really are. Jacob 4:13 4. I think you have already highlighted the next part with are we not all beggars -- mercy can't rob justice, and justice can't rob mercy. If we are unwilling to show mercy/grace -- when it is due -- then I would think this is pride and pride is sin. 5. Doctrine and Covenants 121: 43 -- Sharpness I was told means -- before it is too late. If we aren't willing to invite, chasten, encourage, etc... it might then be too late and the person develops a habit. The scriptures are interwoven, thus this verse correlates with everything else previously shared. It is not an isolated verse of scripture. I'm sure there are other scriptures, but this suffices.

When we possess charity, we look beyond motive as a factor in our attitude toward others. When we have charity toward everyone, assessing motive is a secondary activity in determining how we express that charity, and the Spirit will help us discern anything relevant.

Backroads, not sure how much information you would like to share but.. how many kids we are talking about? Both parents are receiving unemployment? Did they explicitly state they can't feed their kids? Is anyone from school assisting in any way?

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Only a tad too far? If what he is doing only constitutes a 'tad', then we clearly have different understandings about what is going on around us. Biden Orders VA To Withhold Health Benefits From Unvaccinated Veterans Biden told Veterans: I realize several people here voted for our current President, and thus a natural desire to minimize the damage he is doing in order to feel better about the past vote, but like Biden would say... "C'mon Man!"

I think our approach should vary according to each individual situation, including our own knowledge, skill and aptitude in properly identifying and dealing with manipulative behavior (regardless of the motive of said behavior). But charity and the companionship of the Holy Ghost are certainly assets.

Nope - gossip, complaining, manipulation, and attention seeking activities are all bad. They should not take place in any adult interaction. Shouldn’t happen in a family or work place. These co-workers have problems that are best addressed outside of the workplace. In my and many large work places when someone is disruptive, they get written up with a formal complaint. Formal complaints have to be reviewed by those in authority. After the review, usually a warning or after repeated offenses an action is taken. Mandated therapy, anger management, transfer to different section.

Neither coworker is justified in basing their decision to address the issue by guessing at the motive. The decision to address the inappropriate behavior should generally be based, as per Elder Oaks, on the situation, not the motive. A decision to try to help him is born out of love and compassion or even just necessity, not some predetermined reason for the behavior. Now if you want to talk about how to actually help him then you'd have to move past merely making judgements and find the real reason behind his behavior and perhaps involve professionals. But that process would be unique to the situation and you didn't want to go there.

Perhaps; but this is an age of weaponized compassion. There’s a reason the Savior combined “harmless as doves” with “wise as serpents”. And in certain circumstances, I think it’s useful and maybe even healthy to just be able to say (not accusingly, but in a matter-of-fact sort of way) “no, he’s crazy and I don’t owe him anything.”

It would be kinda hard to use one's religion as a reason to not be vaccinated when the leader, the president of the Church, is vaccinated. One can't really say, "It goes against my religion," like a Jehovah Witness could say, "It's against my religion to have a blood transfusion." I think @clwnuke provided a good example with a mandate for drinking coffee. In that scenario we would have a leg to stand on as it pertains to being a member of good standing.

@Fether I think your heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, mental health issues are often misunderstood and very few people have the knowledge, patience, compassion and understanding to deal with family, friends or co-workers who are struggling.

I do support BYU except when they play Utah or Purdue. I also view them as the opponent, not the enemy.

The problem with scriptures (prophetic insights) is that such is often interoperated by the reader/listener. Anciently it was understood that a righteous person was someone that made and kept covenants given to them by G-d. Conversely a unrighteous person was one that refused and broke the covenants G-d has made with them. If we extend this understanding of righteousness verses unrighteousness we can understand that a righteous judgment is a judgment made through and according to G-d's covenants. A unrighteous judgment is a judgment made outside of or contrary to G-d's covenants. The Traveler

Thanks @Vort. I'm relieved for the benefit of Veterans. When satire mimics reality too closely, I'll admit I got Babylon Beed.

So say there is a friend, like the one above, who struggles deeply with emotional pain and trauma, and on occasion acted inappropriately to deal with it. One can easily assume, as illustrated, that they are either being manipulative and seeking attention, or just doesn’t realize what they are doing and are simply crying out for help. What would the appropriate thought process and actions be?

Mr/Mrs @mirkwood (no assuming gender here) BYU fans are ready to serve you a large helping of your own words.

Well, Joseph Smith did say this: "It is better, said Joseph Smith, to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition" This principle can be applied to not just food but to any judgement we make

You must have a kindler gentler work environment than I do. This is not appropriate for my workplace.

True. I think this is true of virtually all Christlike attributes.

I agree. I just think it renders one a little more vulnerable to possible exploitation, if one doesn’t have a clear set of boundaries and a firm understanding for where ultimate accountability lies.

I definitely think it is something to be aware of. But I refuse to believe (and I imagine you do to, I don’t want to misrepresent what you are saying) that attributing positive motive, thinking the best of others and offering grace to those that make mistakes also means you are naive and will be taken advantage of.

I would argue that one can easily have the views of person #2, but still have a sense of personal space and self respect. It is not apparent to me that person #2 would naturally be taken advantage of. Though I do believe the opposite to be true. people who are easily taken advantage of of likely share similar thoughts as person #2. Its sort of a square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn’t a square situation.

I don’t know that I look at it quite as much in terms of “sinfulness”, as simple human relationships. At a future day humanity will all have to be reconciled, not only to God, but to each other. In that reconciliation process, Person #1 will have more work to do than Person #2 will. Why entertain attitudes and thought processes during the day of our mortal probation, that we know we’ll have to un-learn at a future time when such change will apparently be harder than it is now? That said, in the here-and-now Person #2 probably needs to be wary of being taken advantage of/being subjected to behaviors that, intentional or not, constitute some form of abuse.

3 kids, both parents have previously worked but currently aren't, both receiving unemployment. I didn't take the call, but I was asked for input on what I had seen. From my understanding, they say they are having trouble finding food for the kids' breakfast and lunch. We may be going the route JaG suggested.

Backroads, there is zero reason this should be happening; and if the kids really are hungry for extended portions of the day and you’re in Utah, you should probably give DCFS Intake a call. Even if it’s not a case of abuse/neglect (and frankly, though I’m admittedly jaded, I sort of suspect either parental drug use or parental mental health issues if everything is as you describe it) DCFS can still work with the family on a voluntary basis to review what benefits they are receiving versus what’s available, and help them come up with strategies to make their benefits go further.

Coming to a hospital near you - the unintended consequences of poor policy decisions! NY Hospital Forced To Stop Delivering Babies After Maternity Workers Resign Over Vaccine A hospital in upstate New York has been forced to 'pause' the delivery of babies starting Sept. 24 after a flood of maternity workers resigned over Covid-19 vaccine mandates. Lewis County Health System CEO Gerald Cayer made the announcement in a Friday press conference, according to WWNY. According to Cayer, six employees in the maternity unit resigned and another seven are 'undecided,' rendering the hospital unable to safely deliver children. "If we can pause the service and now focus on recruiting nurses who are vaccinated, we will be able to reengage in delivering babies here in Lewis County," said Cayer.

@Traveler It is interesting how different things look in the macro picture than in the micro. As I look back on all the good men and women that I served with on my mission, and reflect on how so many of them are wandering in the wilderness today due to the issues you mention above, it makes the whole vaccine judgement issue look quite trivial.

They cannot be reasoned with. They cannot be negotiated with. Never forget.

Have not heard it, but wouldn't doubt it. From an organizational standpoint you wouldn't want lay leaders asserting a doctrine that didn't exist. Now if it was a mandate to drink coffee in order to keep more alert at work I think we could apply for a religious exemption, but it would get more complicated if the mandate allowed diet Pepsi and Monster as substitutes. Living the dream in CA.

In principle we abandoned the Constitution long ago IMHO. If it is still hanging, it is by nanoscale spider silk that has been stretched to infinity.

Just wanted to share a bit of job success. I teach for one of the virtual schools. Last week, I got a nastygram from a parent. Like, insulting my intelligence and skill. After letting myself imagine lots of delightfully nasty and unprofessional responses in my head, I responded with nothing but empathy and sorrow and offers of help. I did this to about half a dozen more nastygrams. Turned out that while the parent and I were talking over how to solve problems A, B, and C, it turned out the real problem was in an entirely different universe. Coworker in charge of separate universe helped and matter was resolved. Parent has been nothing but supportive and polite and friendly since. Like, freakishly polite and kind. I think, though, we may become good partners over the year.

@anatess2 isn't on these boards anymore. I know there's a number of people on the right who defend nation building, but I haven't seen nearly as much this board. Maybe I'm missing something. Quick poll: Who here thinks that when we deploy troops (or even drones) there should be a well-defined scope and it should not include nation-building? Bonus question: Who here thinks Congress should grow a spine and formally declare war before deploying troops? As for the initial wars - I'll remind you that there was bipartisan support for both Iraq and Afghanistan (including Senator Clinton), can the same be said for such infrastructure as universal pre-K? Spending bills are set for 10-year windows. Should we compare it against total Medicaid spending without drawing attention to the difference in time scales? Now that we're out of Afghanistan we might save $1T over the next 10 years (I don't think that's how the actual numbers work but let's use it) then that means we can now fund almost 1/3 of this spending bill. In other words, this proposed bill is 3 1/2 Afghanistans! @Grunt and @JohnsonJones have expressed that what bugs them about this bill is how it will affect our debt. Assuming they were okay with the Afghanistan spending I'm sure you can see how replacing that with triple spending might make a taxpayer or citizen nervous. And the Afghanistan spending was done by Federal agencies directly accountable to both the Executive and Legislative branches. This bill includes some Federal things (like Medicaid expansion) but a significant portion is going to the States to administer. @mikbone expressed concern about how the funds would be handled (incompetently) locally. Even if he was okay with the Federal administration of tax dollars for the Afghanistan War I'm sure you can see how including State and local governments in the administration would make a person nervous when they haven't shown themselves to be very trustworthy in the past (such as the light rail train to nowhere in recent years). I could see a person wanting FEMA to come offer relief instead of passing money to your mafia-run construction agencies. All this rhetoric is built on "if". Your comment is a complete non sequitur if most posters on here would like less hawkishness from our Executives.

It is interesting to me that throughout history that prior to any catastrophic event that there were "signs" indicating that something was wrong - but, for whatever reason the vast majority of individuals felt that they would somehow be excluded and an exception to what was changing. It is my understanding that for the most part the Latter-day Saints will not be exempted from the trials and tribulations of the Last-days except that they will be better prepared to endure them. As I understand economics - deficit government spending is a precursor to inflation. Inflation is a cause of suffering and unrest that is almost always a companion of war. Not since the Civil War has a war been fought on our American soil. I could be wrong but I am under the impression that the Saints will be drawn into war that is a continuation of previous wars in which the Saints has fought. The Traveler

https://usdebtclock.org

I think you are exactly right. It just breaks my heart to see them struggle so much and then see my friends talk poorly of them.

@mirkwood's new profile pic:

You and I will have words the next two years...

It's tithing time. I can live with one loss every ten games.

NOBODY BEATS BYU 10 TIMES IN A ROW!