Leaderboard

Subject of OP: I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming, and who will be able to stand?” The "TEST" is not what I find disturbing, as we already know this life is a "test" (Abraham 3:25), but the test being spoken of centers around this sentiment, "it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy to the people of God." If anything, this bring to my remembrance, "Wolves in sheep's clothing," but I am not sure this is referencing a "wolf" among the sheep. How in the world can we not know a "Saint" from an "enemy" to the people of God? My first thoughts lean toward the Book of Mormon, and the New Testament (the Gospels). Who were "Saints" and yet were "enemies" to the people of God, or better said maybe, "Who should have been "Saints" rather than "enemies" to the people of God? The pharisees, saducees, and scribes were all "sheep" and look at how they treated the people of God. Look at how they treated their God, for that matter. I remember listening to a TED talk on Youtube who mentioned the following (she was Mormon), "We only need enough Millenials to grow up in the Church, who then become leaders, who then are able to change the policies and doctrines." This mentality is truly the "enemy's" (the evil one's) philosophy. The philosophies of men mingled with scripture, and obviously a poor understanding of doctrine. I don't even think this individual realizes how this is not the Lord's mind or heart. I would agree with the thought regarding "love" and its misunderstanding and misuse in our world. This is probably already occurring through social media. I have seen all to often, from Saints, how the Church has failed society -- really? -- OK, sure (false). Regarding Public Policies and Laws in Relation to Morality When the proper understanding of rights is understood there really isn't a question as to what the Law protects. The misuse of the term "rights" is why we are enduring what we are right now. Zion will be a system of Laws, even based on morality, where if people do not want to adhere to they are able to leave. There will be no "SSM" in Zion. So, how people confuse the notion that if we fight against "an assumed right" (which isn't a right to begin with) that we are somehow following Satan -- I don't know. This is incorrect. There was a sacrament talk that misunderstood this principle, and the talk assumed that if we don't have all the choices we are following Satan also (or if we inhibit choices we are following Satan's plan). If so, then why did Nephi not teach his posterity of the people in Jerusalem, and their ways? Because they were not of God. What I hear from people is that Nephi was actually following Satan's plan of not giving people options as he should have. He should have taught, he should have made laws to protect the "sin" of Jerusalem, because that is God's way. NO IT IS NOT. Never has been, never will be. If so, the Church would have never moved forward with Prop 8. Why did they? Because they know of the judgements which are to come, and they have given warning. Zion will be accomplished by righteousness and by laws that keep righteousness, otherwise, there will be nothing in place to protect it. There are Celestial Laws, Terrestrial laws, and Telestial laws. Zion will be a place where Celestial laws (it doesn't matter what personal belief system someone will hold) will be maintained by law.

So I've now read through this entire thread. And I will say that I see both sides of the responses that are being given. But one thing I want to say and we say this quite often here on the forums. When you come to a random internet forum (LDS or not) you can expect a variety of responses. Not all of them are going to be what you want to see or what you want to hear. And we will allow a variety of responses unless they start breaking some of the site rules that we have set into place. So far none of the responses meet that criteria. Many times responses are given because that person or someone very close to them have gone through the same situation. Now I'm NOT saying that is the case here because I don't know and frankly it is none of my business. Believe me. I have some subjects that just push my buttons and because they are something I am passionate about, I voice my opinion even if it goes against the grain. It's just how we as humans are. Putting a disclaimer or a rule in the title such as "no judgment" won't stop people from having opinions or expressing their perspectives on a situation. It's like saying, "I want to hear what you have to say but only if it is something I want to hear." In fact many times it fuels it more than stops it. It's the nature of an internet forum. But we can't ask people to leave unless they are breaking site rules as I mentioned earlier. And that can only come from the moderating staff. What I get from the OP is you are asking about what kind of action, disciplinary or other, you might receive for your actions with another. To be honest, none of us can tell you that. We are not your Bishop. We don't hold any stewardship over you. Only your Bishop can guide you and direct you and decide what action might need to be taken. Having a porn addiction can cause problems in a marriage. By your own admission you stated that he came to you months before your got married and admitted he had a problem with it. Getting married doesn't just magically make that addiction go away. The same can be said with any other addiction. You mentioned he is a wonderful husband that treats you like a Queen and is a wonderful father to your child. That's such a glowing compliment to him in a world where some just don't take marriage and parenthood that seriously. I guess what I really want to say is, it sounds like both of you have issues right now that are affecting your marriage. That's really what it boils down to. Both of you need to work on your individual issues. Both of you need to have some long serious talks with your Bishop and follow his counsel. Both of you also need to have some long serious talks with our Father in Heaven. I'm sure you are already doing that. And again, keep in mind this is a public internet forum. If you are going to come and lay your problems down for the world to see and expect only kind, thoughtful, and encouraging words it doesn't always happen. The forums are filled with different people with different life experiences and many times give their opinion based on those experiences. I truly do wish you the best and hope that both of you can receive the help you need. It does sound like there is still much hope and love in your marriage.

(Raises hand tentatively) All of the above? Tests can have multiple problems. Lack of charity is one. Too much "false" charity--especially charity masquerading as permissiveness-- is another. Absolutism/statism from the political left, as well as suspicion and paranoia from the right (and divisive rhetoric from both). Criticisms from the social left who think we're compromising too little, and from the social right who think we're giving up too much. Attacks on the GAs from within the Church by Dehlinites and feminists from the extreme heterodox wing as well as from Snufferites and doomsday prepper-militia types from the extreme orthodox wing. Dogmatic, intellectually lazy fundentalism; as well as faithless skepticism. Excessive allegiance to the self-appointed intelligentsia on the one hand; self-satisfied know-nothingism on the other. And so on, and so on. To the extent that "the test" can be reduced to anyone factor, I would say it is simply this: who will stand with the Lord and His modern prophets; versus who will be blown away with the social movement of the hour.

I'm going to go a different route than others have, but I'm generally not one to listen to so keep that in mind. Your husband has a porn addiction. This is no indication of how he feels about you. It is no indication of how he views you. He's an exceptional husband and father. He treats you like a queen. You have self-image issues, presumably because of how you think he views you due to his porn addiction. You nag him about his porn addiction. Have you considered the possibility that you're the reason there is no passion in your marriage? Have you considered that your reaction to his addiction is hurting your marriage more? Now you've cheated on him? You're concerned about the punishment? Do you think you should be concerned about how you violated your marriage, your children's trust, and your covenants with God? Honestly, you sound as though you're more concerned with yourself than your family. Since you came here for advice, here it is. Be an adult. Adults have responsibility. Go see your bishop. Now. Do what he tells you and hope your husband forgives you. Due to the fact that you said he will, it sounds like you take him for granted. Stop. Be the wife and mother you committed to being. Help your husband through his addiction, Stop being selfish. I wish you the best. I wish your family the best. I truly hope you work this out for the sake of yourself, your family, and your relationship with God. I mean that sincerely.

This is way cool. https://www.lds.org/church/news/straining-to-hear-each-sunday-meetinghouse-listening-devices-dramatically-improve-participation?lang=eng

That is exactly where my thoughts were heading. We've been warned over and over that many Saints will be pulled away by those in our midst that claim to be Saints but spend their time placing little doubts into our thoughts. They will be crafty and we may not realize what they are doing. But will we be strong enough and able enough to discern that is happening? I think I can see this already happening with some of the people we've seen in the news that have gained many followers with their subtle and sometimes not so subtle teachings. We've seen some of these people have already lost their membership in the Church.

You might as well argue that we need porn shops and bars on every corner so that we can have choice. But that isnt the Lords plan. We are commanded to live righteously, to build zion and do away with all forms of idleness and wickedness. Laws themselves are based upon moral principles. There is nothing wrong with strict moral law. We do not have to allow evilness and idolatry in society to survive and live Gods plan. God commands that we do away with "all" evilness and idolatry. Agency is actually best preserved as people choose to live righteously and do away with evilness. In the past some great prophets were able to completely do away with all evilness. Enoch was one such individual that created zion and because of its righteousness God removed it from the earth. Jesus, in the Americas after his resurrection, was able to establish righteousness for almost 4 generations where "none" in their civilization were lost and all were saved. Satan destroys agency through temptations, evilness and idleness. As people give in to temptations and sin they slowly become bound in his chains and are led "captive" to his will and doom. That is precisely how Satan destroys agency.

To me, I think that Christofferson's return to the Church IS a major theme of the story; even if he himself chooses not to present it thus. I mean, yes, we continue those relationships of love with wandering family members for their own sakes; but in the grand scheme of things the point is that sooner or later the tentacles of divine providence catch up with them (and if they don't, then the eternal potential of those relationships remains perpetually stunted to some degree). @JoCa strikes me as being partially correct; insofar that these warm fuzzies about "acceptance" tend to evaporate the minute the Church says "thus far and no further"; and at such times what had been acknowledged as love and support suddenly gets recharacterized as some sort of cynical masquerade. I suppose the trick is--you love wanderers for their own sake and try to avoid coming across as if you see them as merely some sort of "project"; but you also never stop praying that they'll allow the Atonement to turn them into something better than the goals they've currently set for themselves. Between this experience and that of Bennett and Becky Borden, I think maybe we are being shown that there *is* a way to reclaim folks who have allowed themselves to be swallowed up in homosexuality. Maybe their experiences do leave scars in the form of incorrect thinking patterns and self-identities that persist even after the behavior has been shunned (it would be interesting to know whether Christofferson now has a testimony that gay relationships are per se contrary to God's plan; or whether he just sees himself as jumping through an arbitrary and temporary hoop to claim a higher spiritual plane. I also want to know why in Sam Hill it's supposed to be a "blessing" to be gay; and whether Christofferson would also say--or be comfortable with someone else saying--that it's a "blessing" to be straight. If I'm not supposed to stereotype, and "anyone" can be gay and my "gaydar" shouldn't be tripped by speech patterns, dress styles, interests, supposed effeminacy, etc; then what exactly *does* constitute being "gay" other than sexual attraction?). But, typical progressivist doublespeak aside, the key to me is--they came back. They ended sinful relationships out of a desire to pursue something better. And they weren't beaten into it by a series of relational, economic, or health setbacks--they just realized, for various reasons, that there wasn't enough God in the choices they had been making; and then Church members loved them the rest of the way back. What a story! Mormonism used to be a green field in the middle of a desert, and it didn't take much to keep sheep in the fold or to herd the wanderers back where they belonged. But Satan's spent the last thirty years seeding the desert with locoweed and then keeping the sick sheep from finding their way home. It may be that the best strategy for today is to re-design the sheepfold gate in a way that still deters exit but also facilitates re-entry for those lost sheep who finally realize they've been gorging themselves on spiritual junk food. I think I'll spend some time trying to understand how the shepherds are trying to rebuild the gate, before I start sniping about how different this gate is from the old one.

Thank you so much for the support you guys! You really made my day with your messages. <3 <3 <3 <3 I sometimes forget how far I've come and to take the time to enjoy it. I was able to wear jeans today that wouldn't fit up my thighs before coming to Rexburg today, so, that was another thing to just hammer home how much has changed for me. *hugs for everyone* @priesthoodpower I don't think I could do that diet. It would not be a sustainable lifestyle choice for me. Unless eating carbs made me ill, I will probably never be able to let them go(unless it became a commandment, then I'd have to pray every day for the Spirit to console me through the loss of pasta and Italian bread and bagels). I really respect people who are willing and able to give certain things up for the long haul.

I think the test is leftist values. Which is to say, the test is "love". The true love of Christ is the key to Sainthood. The false "love" of the progressive left is the obvious correlative state that deceives. How else could we look at fellow members and fail to see who is and isn't a true Saint? Pornography and the like doesn't cut it for me. No one aware of another, or even themselves, engulfed in that chasm considers such a characteristic of Sainthood.

I hate to break it to you @skippy740, but you're reacting to what you expect to be there rather than observing what is actually there. Or you are making massive assumptions without sufficient grounds for so doing, and responding to the result of your assumption. Either way, your side of this debate is not following what the other side actually said. (My personal assumption is that you've had this conversation so many times that you've stopped listening to the person with whom you're supposed to be conversing.)

I think its important to address the difference between agency and rights. Agency is simply the ability to choose for ourselves. This however does not mean we get to do whatever we want (even when it can be argued that it doesn't impact anyone else). For example, the war in heaven was fought over agency. One third of the hosts of heaven wanted to follow Satan's plan. Did they get what they want? No. God essentially said too bad and gave them the royal boot. Why was he able to do this without depriving them of their agency? Because following Satan's plan wasn't an option or a right that God had given them. Everything comes from God and we have no right to demand anything except that which he chooses to give us. Its no different in this world, especially here in the US of A. The Bill of Rights was our inspired forefather's attempt to address exactly what those God-given rights are. So to argue that God (and by extension His Church) does not have any say as to what right's people have just doesn't hold water. IMO.

I appreciated the article, as I have many of the similar ones posted here recently, because it shows that you can repent of serious sins even when you have been entrenched in their practice for a very long time. While I appreciate the message on familial love and the efforts the Christofferson family went too, to love their wayward son, the true beauty for me was when he rejected everything to come back into the gospel of Jesus Christ. He rejected the World's teachings and the feelings of his partner and decades of poor personal decisions to become clean again through Christ's Atonement. I feel like the Church is demonstrating that you can reject even the most insidious of inner desires, in an effort to reach out to people who may have considered themselves lost long ago due to their participation in homosexual activity. While I may quibble with some of the words Brother Christofferson used to describe his journey, I feel as the father of the prodigal son when he told the faithful brother in Luke 15:32 "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found." Brother Christofferson was dead but now is alive again and found and to me that is reason to celebrate.

@zil: Maybe that is a reason for both of us to stay home, watch it together on the internet or BYUTv, and cuddle together on the couch (making sure to maintain a firm hold on each other). That way, it will be both or neither (as if I really had any aspirations that my puny strength could defy God's decrees if He really was going to only take one of us). @laronius: That sounds like an excellent idea. Jupiter is pretty low in the west, though it should still give a decent view in the twilight. While there, scoot up and look at Saturn (which is higher in the sky and easier to see), maybe over to the east where Neptune and Uranus are near opposition and check out these little blue dots. If I can get out of town and away from city lights, Andromeda should make a good target along with the Ring nebula and... What does the weather look like this weekend? If my wife comes home to find the house mysteriously empty, she may not know if I was raptured or if I just went out of town for a few hours. Who wants to go on a rapture star party?

Seems to me that the church has always maintained the difference between temptation (which happens to all of us) that we do not control, and Sin (which happens to all of us) which we do control. So the church repeats the Lord's commands to us to be virtuous... while knowing we will be tempted not to be so, and knowing at some point sin will mean that we are not virtuous. The fact that we fail does not void the command nor the church need to repeat it. The church has clearly condemned the sin of homosexuality (just like it has condemned all other sins)... This has not changed... what has changed is the world altered and convinced people that we are not defined by the choices they make (collectively)... but by the temptation they face. In the past people where not homosexual unless they engaged in sex with a member of the same sex. Thus in the past the church could make blanket statement condemning homosexuality because everyone accepted that it took action to be that. However now a days the world will teach you that if you ever had a fleeting thought about that you are forever a homosexual or bisexual or whatever sexual except being heterosexual. Because the world has smashed the two different things together the church has to separate them to maintain the standards it has always has. And that standard is Temptation is not sin...(although dwelling on temptation can be) you can be a faithful and good member of the church no matter your temptation. Repentance is the answer to sin and a repentant person can be a faithful and good member of the church no matter what your prior sins were (assuming repentance). The unrepentant person is not in good standing but the Christ-like response is to love the person anyways and hold the door open for them to repent and be healed

President Hinckley says, "I do not know precisely the nature of that test. But I am inclined to think the time is here and that the test lies in our capacity to live the gospel rather than adopt the ways of the world." The ways of the world are made up of "divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them (Mosiah 4:29)." And I don' think President Hinckley in his commentary was was referring to Utah alone.

Thanks, but she's not wrong. I could learn to be less blunt in my responses. I have a bad habit of calling things as I see them. I try to have compassion, and I truly believe I do, but I have no patience for not "adulting" about certain things. Personal responsibility is one. You can't fix a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it.

Get off your high horse. You cheated on your husband. I am a lot of horrible things, including a jerk, but I've never betrayed my family. You should be looking inward. You came here for help. Stop acting like a petulant child looking to blame someone else for a missing cookie and worrying about whether mom's punishment will be severe. It doesn't matter what the penance is. Accept it, learn from it. Beg your family's forgiveness. You shouldn't even be worrying about your husband's addiction. You shouldn't even have mentioned it. It is irrelevant to the issue. Yet it was the first thing you posted about to generate sympathy and/or share blame. THAT is why my response seems "jerky" to you. You aren't truly repentant. That said, your husband's issue is your husband's issue. You're making it a problem with your marriage. The church doesn't view porn like the rest of the world. The natural man doesn't view porn like the church does. It doesn't diminish his feelings for you. Get counseling to work through your feelings of inadequacy. Get counseling to help bring passion back into your marriage. The porn is a use issue. Stop making it the central issue. Your infidelity is now the central issue. EDITED TO ADD: I know I sound harsh. Infidelity bugs me. The title of your post didn't help. It says you don't want to hear about your blame in this. Then the content of your post didn't seem to be looking for advice at all. I just felt bad for your family and don't think you realize that you're the problem that needs addressing nor that you're committed to fixing it. Those are the details you provided. Go talk to the bishop. Go talk to a counselor. Get on your knees.

You've already received the encouragement, guidance, and counsel, so I won't go there. I cannot take away the hurt. In fact, I'm going to make it a bit deeper: You physically became what you were afraid of your husband doing to you emotionally, virtually, that could also lead to physically. Why? Because you let FEAR into your marriage. Sure, you can blame his habit, and I can blame the church for teaching paranoia about it, but you have to take responsibility for your own reaction. 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Personally, I think the women in the church are 'trained' to be 'parents' to their husbands, to withhold sex if he has a problem, to leave and abandon him when he could need her spirit the most, and to consider it grounds for DIVORCE. (What happened to 'in sickness and in health'? It's turned into "unless he has a pornography problem".) The women in the church who think this COULD be cowards and spineless about all this. This is why you think you're less attractive and he's less attractive to you - you changed into a PARENT instead of being his WIFE. You're EMASCULATING him while trying to heal yourself. How can that help anything? Yes, pornography is far worse than it was 50 years ago when it was just magazines under the bed. But the paranoia around it... I think is uncalled for. Consider this: there are healthy marriages where they both drink alcohol and smoke. As long as it is not abused, their marriage is okay. No, it's not a Celestial marriage, but it can be a fully functioning marriage with love in it. How do I know? I have non-member family and they smoke and drink... and they've been together for at least 35 years. It can be done. (Yes, he can get drunk, but he's still responsible about it and he's NEVER abused his kids or his wife.) Of course, as LDS with the WoW, we also say "why take the chance?" Can you have a loving marriage with pornography? I won't say yes or no, but I will say that I'm sure it can be done, if you love him for him... and not just his worthiness. Pornography will interfere with having a Celestial standard of marriage... with potential eternal consequences. But to have to leave? I think that's overkill. Don't ask me how I know all this. I just do.

I definitely see it as the left wing movement. Just walking down the street one may never know who is on the right or the left. Its rather scary that SLC itself is now run by left wing politics. The church, with heavy conservative right wing views, is surrounded by people and politics ramping up left wing views in their face. the church is definitely being tested and some are choosing to leave it because the voice and reason of secularism from the left more coincides with the lifestyle of their fallen natures. Abortion, same sex marriage, legalizatiin of drugs, gun control, feminism, socialism, big controlling government, equality, gender neutrality, government ran and controlled healthcare, separation of church and state, atheism, are all principles the left promotes. The real trigger behind this though is Satan himself- the father of lies. Almost every LDS doctrine as contained in the Proclamation is under direct attack from the left. If the left were to make their own family proclamation it would write exactly the opposite. And yet, there are supposedly faithful LDS who side with the left. Im baffled, honestly baffled that someone would fain believe themselves to be faithful LDS who support everything opposite our church believes in.

I agree with almost everything you wrote, JoCa. But not this: I do not believe this is true. I don't have much experience with which people engage in porn usage, but I feel quite sure in saying that even a perfect wife might have a husband who uses porn. I believe those who say that porn usage is not about the wife, it's about the husband. I believe this is the nature of sin in general, reflecting weakness and deficiency in the sinner far more than in anyone else.

Harsh words, with which I vigorously disagree. Frankly, I'm saddened to see such open disloyalty to the kingdom of God and its leadership. You are mistaken. Identifying as someone who has a short temper, or who craves Mountain Dew, or who is sexually attracted to aquatic mammals, or who is attracted to pornography, is NOT sinful. It's recognizing one's proclivities toward wickedness. As long as the person's thoughts and behaviors remain chaste, the person is fine to participate fully in Church activities, including temple and exercising the Priesthood. One's proclivities are not one's thoughts, and the hope and promise is that the former can be overcome by keeping the latter pure. If your reasoning above were correct, then neither you nor anyone else could participate in Church activities. Your weaknesses would prevent you from doing so, no matter how disciplined you tried to behave. I happen to agree with much of what you say, but you go much too far in some areas. This weakness is perhaps no more evil than other commonly exhibited traits; unfortunately, our present society demonizes the particular weaknesses you demonstrate, making them more problematic. You may want to consider following the example of the apostles more closely in this.

I realize Mormons are generally very tolerant and non-judgmental, but in all fairness as a heathen, I realize that sometimes you just need to beat the stupid out of people.

Yesterday: You do know that's friggin' amazing, right? Everyone do their happy dance for a mustard seed!

Revelation for couples should be received as a couple. That's not to say it can't come to one spouse first, but that the other spouse should also receive it too.

There is this thing called the law of witnesses. When a revelation is from God, it will not come to just one individual, it will be confirmed by a another person with a stake in the matter receiving the same revelation. So please do bring it up with your husband. He may be having similar feelings, or if he gives it some thought and prayer he may get a confirmation and then the two of you can move forward united in faith. Or he may receive a different prompting and you can have some comfort that you are not violating God's will in waiting a bit as you plan. Just say 'Honey, I need to tell you something I've been feeling and get your thoughts on it...' you aren't dictating to him what will happen, you are trying to work something out together. I proposed to my wife 6 weeks after I got back from my mission, we were married 6 months later. I was in school full time and she had a job at a retail store so we didn't have a lot of money. We didn't wait however, she was pregnant a month after the wedding and over the next 10 years our first 5 kids were born. Yes there were financial challenges and sacrifices, but we kept paying tithing and it worked out. We did have to have a friend babysit for a couple years while she was at work and I was at class, but after I graduated she was able to be a full time mom up. Our kids are older now so recently she was able to finish her degree. She has a career and I do too and I can work from home so even though our youngest in in high school he still has a parent at home. My wife says it is better to chase kids when in your 20s and do home work in your 40s than the other way around. Now that might not be the right path for you guys, but just because you are young poor newlyweds doesn't mean starting a family is impossible or wrong. You both need to take this to God and then act in faith on the answer. It doesn't matter if it doesn't seem logical, if you feel peace and confidence from the spirit over it, go with it and trust God to clear the path before you.

Welcome to the forums, @newlywed! Congratulations on your marriage! First, I'm going to refer you to a post I made in another thread: Next, I'm going to point out that in my experience, you will have the most success getting clear guidance if you study out the issue, make a decision (that doesn't mean the decision has to be what logic or math tells you, it just has to mean that you've considered everything you can think of to consider, and then made a decision), and then ask the Lord whether the decision is right. (This seems to work better than asking the Lord to tell you what to do.) Finally, you of course need to counsel together with your husband about this. Find the right time, when he's not stressed or rushing to do something or too exhausted to think straight. Let him know about these feelings you've had, your doubts about them, and that you'd like to consider the issue with open minds. God is a God of miracles, and I think that's what my dad's story shows. But He also expects us to work and think and make wise choices, so there's always a balance. In your case, you need to consider everything, plan what you can, trust in the Lord, and be open to his reply to your prayer. I wish you and your husband a long and happy life together with a beautiful family. I hope you'll stick around and tell us how it goes. Next you'll get replies which are perhaps wiser than mine (though I consider my dad's story to be wise counsel), and certainly more experienced (since I have no children, so I haven't been in a similar situation).

I've been away from the forum for quite some time. When I last visited, there were (and I'm sure there still are) some threads addressing same sex attraction, family acceptance, and other topics. I remember reaching out to a member of the Christofferson family a few years ago, but she never responded back to me. (Wasn't sure if I was treading on something too hard to share, or if she never really got my message.) I genuinely wanted to know how their family dealt with such a hot topic for so long. This article embodies a GREAT example for us and how we can and should treat our family members - particularly those who have same-sex attraction. I found the motives to be right - we are going to keep our family together through love and acceptance. http://www.ldsliving.com/One-Gay-Man-s-Powerful-Journey-Away-from-the-Church-and-Back-Again/s/86366 I look forward to reading Tom's book when it becomes available (I prefer Kindle books whenever possible). I would guess that it would be a decent reference for families and church leaders on how we should BE when relating to those with same-sex attraction. I suggest, that for any family that is dealing with this, to consider this article as how we should be - not that it will change things - but so we can be the kind of people we should be, so others may want to be like us and see the Light of Christ shown in our lives.

This is true. But I do want y'all to know my husband has told me multiple times that I'm the reason he is getting stronger because I'm patient and try to help him. So yes, I'm angry, but that doesn't mean I always take it out on him. So in this case, that's not an issue

Thank you for the tone of your comments. It's refreshing to hear the side you need to hear in a way that has some compassion to it instead of condemnation. I understand what you're saying which is why I'm in counseling. I can't seem to let go of the hurt I've felt these past 5+ years. The moment I feel like I've got it under control, he'll mess up again and it all comes back which tells me I never got past it in the first place. I don't know how. I am currently figuring that out.

What Grunt said. But it's not. And I'll tell you why. His sin is his sin, not yours. I detect this hint of justification for your actions as in well he was cheating on me with porn so I'll cheat on him and I'll show him. Look, there is no way that you just "happened to let yourself get into a situation". Don't make excuses or justifications for why you chose to cheat on your husband. Quite honestly you have to decide what you really want . . .now maybe, just maybe your sin has caused you to wake up to your awful situation and caused you to realize some things about your marriage and your situation. As in maybe your husband isn't all that bad of a guy, maybe he is a good father, maybe he is a pretty good husband (not the best, but pretty good). You quite non-chalantly said "I'm pretty sure he'll forgive me"??? Really, that's the attitude you are going with towards your husband who you cheated on? Yeah hey hubby . .. just to let you know while we were separated I let some other dude get it on with me . . .we didn't copulate but he was all over me, you'll forgive me won't ya!, no big deal? Him forgiving you isn't a forgone conclusion. You never know, he might have had it with your constant nagging him for 6 years and he's sick and tired of it . . .but he has been committed to trying to make a marriage work. Maybe this is the last straw for him-maybe he says good riddance. "I'm not saying which sin is worse because honestly I feel that is completely up to Heavenly Father and I do think situation plays a role in everything so he will decide in this circumstance." Oh really now. Which sin is worse? Does it even matter? Which sin is worse is the sin you committed!!! Being married ain't a competition (hey your sin is worse than my sin). The only sin that matters is the sin that you commit. This much I can tell you, sins of action are greater than sins of thought and sins of action committed with other people are greater than sin committed alone. In other words, the greater sin is the one that is much harder to repent of and whose consequences are much larger. Is there any chance that your husband sitting at his computer watching porn will get STDs, get a woman pregnant? Is there any chance that with you making out with a man who is not your husband that you will have sex, get pregnant, get STDs, etc? You tell me which sin is the greater sin? Look, his sin is his sin-it is not your responsibility to fix his porn problem-it's not your responsibility to make him understand how bad it is (yes it is bad and yes it is a sin). Only he can fix it and the sooner you let go of his sin and stop trying to carry his sin on your back-the happier you will be. He will stand accountable before God-not you for his sin. Porn use has very little to do with whether you are pretty enough. Porn use is (in general) an anti-social behavior, as in generally there is something else broken that is driving the urge to commit sin. My guess is that it in large part revolves around your broken marriage. He needs to find a better outlet for what is driving this behavior. Fix your marriage or at least start working on it and he will fix his porn use. No man who has a good marriage will result to porn use. Porn use is just like drug use-it is used to mask something. Good luck, you are going to need it . . .that and the Atonement of Christ. You are going to need a lot of that.

Sorry, applauded. I started typing before pulling up the statement and didn't think to check it against what I already wrote.

lol . . .this doesn't surprise me in the least bit. When members of the Church are more swayed by current political mores and cultural doctrine this is bound to happen. In some ways, I think this is actually good . . .it might wake people up to what is actually occurring to society (and inside the Church); all is not well in Zion. There was some dude that had a severe mental problem who committed suicide by cop at Georgia Tech this weekend. The dude was either trans or homosexual or wanted to be . . .regardless the guy had some very serious mental problems. He was President of the local PRIDE chapter. In the PRIDE's announcement they referred to him as "they". As in we will never forget what "they" did for us. Yeah . . .well now unfortunately the guy is dead. Maybe had we actually had some sanity and not indulged the kid in his mental fantasies and actually got him help rather than encourage his mental delusions (probably influenced by evil spirits), the guy might actually be alive today. Maybe one day we will wake up to the mess we are creating in society. I really hate the redefinition of words; when an article says "he" I don't know if it's an actual male or if it's a female that pretends to be male. Just read 1984 . . .playbook of what happens to language.

Do you have a current temple recommend? If so, then no problem. Go to the temple, enjoy the wedding. Trust me, your bishop isn't going over roll sheets, and comparing them to temple recommends held. If you have an expired temple recommend, and you are new to the ward, then the Bishop is required to contact your former Bishop to discuss if there are any problems or reasons why he shouldn't issue you a new recommend. If that conversation goes well, then you should have no problem. If you are concerned about your attendance, then discuss with the Bishop. He will understand your constraints.

Now's the perfect time for your sister to face herself and learn the difficult lesson of true forgiveness. If she can't do it, I suggest she asks for the principal to move the child to another class. You don't want that negative vibe to put a cloud on the teacher-student relationship. It's highly unfair to the child.

Goodness, gracious batman! That is AWESOME! Excuse me while I wipe drool off the floor.

And that's another legal issue. In the same way that it has become deemed illegal to ask someone for proof of legal residence, it is also deemed illegal to ask someone with a service dog for proof of legal service. Of course, this is a law based on emotions rather than practicality but lawmakers have a hard time striking a balance between the two.

Hi and welcome In Idaho. A few things: - You are not alone. You're not the first person to deal with a husband with an issue like that. You're not the first person to mess up the way you did. - Kudos on getting counseling, and yes indeed, go confess to your bishop. Be as open and transparent as possible - your bishop will help you. - "he's been off and on doing well with his addiction" This is code for "my husband's addiction is totally out of control". Do you have any LDS-based recovery groups in your area? There may even be a recovery group for spouses of addicts. It's something to ask your bishop. But yeah, you need to learn some things about addiction, and one of those things is there's no such thing as "off and on doing well". There's "he is getting help, and it has been X months since the last time". - You have a path to walk, to be worthy of his trust. You walk your walk, and he walks his. Both of you will need to walk your individual walks, in order for your marriage to succeed. - Forgiveness is important. But it's critical to understand what forgiveness means, and what it doesn't. You can forgive, and still understand he is not worthy of trust. Forgiveness is something you give, but trust is something he must earn. You can't force yourself to extend trust - I suggest you don't try. You can admit you have zero trust in him. That's healthy. You can think about whether it's appropriate to trust him. It's totally healthy and righteous to have the answer be "no". God doesn't expect you to ignore destructive harm, that's not what forgiveness means. If/when he hears about your infidelity, you can see how this stuff will work both ways. God bless and good luck! Let us know how things go with your bishop appointment.

First of all *HUGS* Second of all, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry you're going through this horribleness. Your post brought up a lot of big issues so I'll tackle them one by one: In regards to what to expect in regards to repenting from your mistake with this other man: read Alma the Younger's experience. The depths of sin are dark and harrowing-- I'm sure you know that right now. But the forgiveness of Christ is WONDERFUL and joyous. The Bishop's larger purpose is not to punish you, but to help guide you through the repentance process to find that joy-- like a midwife helping you push through the pains of labor to experience the joy of a new life. Yes, the process of getting through this probably won't be fun, but it's totally worth it! Will you be excommunicated for making out with this guy? No! The Bishop is there to help, even when it hurts. If there's discipline, maybe something like very short term disfellowshipment. In regards to staying with you husband: we, strangers on the internet, cannot remotely make that call. That needs to be between you and God. So, being totally disqualified to make that judgement, I'll just comment on a couple of other things-- -- You are 100% justified feeling hurt here. -- Counseling is good. Both for you and the marriage. -- Porn addiction is not something anyone can just white-knuckle through. Addicts need years of intense therapy with proffesionals to work through things, including digging out all the root causes of the problem and taking care of them. -- He may treat you like a queen when it comes to taking out the literal trash, but a man who chooses porn is figuratively treating his wife like trash. -- God can indeed work miracles in marriage, given time and both spouses giving is 300% in with Him.

Service animals are half science and half art. We met a war vet with various behavioral issues at a WalMart once. His service dog was a tiny vicious Chihuahua, who would bite him if he got out of line. It was the coolest thing in the world, once it was explained to us what was happening. This guy was basically too damaged to be out in public by himself. But he could go places with that dog. If the dog detected too much anxiety/fear, or if the guy's arms started reaching towards someone, dog would give him a quick nasty growl/bite. The guy said he had his social boundary awareness shot off in the war. We spent ten minutes having a pleasant conversation with this guy about all the places he was able to go because his dog kept him in line. The dog sat there and glared hatefully at everyone and everything.

Oh absolutely that was wrong. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1997/04/pray-unto-the-father-in-my-name?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-8-praying-to-our-heavenly-father?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/prayer?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/the-lord-jesus-christ-teaches-us-to-pray?lang=eng

Full disclosure: Just a few weeks ago, my wife and daughters took chickens to a public park. Like, on leashes. (No, this is not the latest thing, this is just our thing.) That said, we don't take any animals into buildings or big crowds of people or anything like that. The exception being PetSmart, where that sort of deviant behavior is expected and welcome.

Most bishops I've known, are very happy to have the chance to just talk to people and get to know them a little. They have access to reports that tell them things (like a list of members with expired recommends), but most of them learn to not jump to conclusions after their first week of being a bishop. One thing bishops learn real fast - they have more than enough work to do, no reason to add guesswork to the pile. Music to a bishop's ears: "Hi bishop, I just wanted to stop by and say that I know my recommend is expired, and no, it's not because I'm inactive or apostate or whatever. Just things have been hectic."

I was at a Subway once and a person had their cat and sat the cat right on the counter where they place the completed food for the customer. And then one of the employees petted the cat and then went back to making sandwiches. One of many, many, many, reasons I won't eat at Subway. I've seen too many things working retail with a Subway in the same building. I realize that many things happen at many food establishments but when you see so many infractions at just one Subway, it sours you for life.

However, most states don't exempt ESAs, since there are no standardized training requirements for them, either.

Not entirely true: https://www.nsarco.com/faq.html The only animals allowed to serve as service animals are any breed of dog and, in some cases, miniature horses. With respect to Emotional Support Animals, there are no species or breed restictions. Consequently, cats, rabbits, miniature pigs, ferrets, birds, etc. may be ESAs.

Be the best teacher to that child as can be. Show him/her the ultimate Christ-like love. That's the best thing which can be done for the kid, and for her own hurting heart.

I wanted to add that it's NOT the fact that Tom came back into the membership of the Church that I find fascinating. That's a complete by-product of this whole thing. I also had no idea that Tom was rebaptized and returned to the Church until I read these articles. I wanted to learn from another family who successfully raised their children, and integrated their faith along with welcoming and loving their same-sex attracted son and his partner into their lives. Quite frankly, I'm not sure I'm "big enough" to do that, but learning from another family AND ward family of how and why they did it has been of interest to me. I would think it would be of interest for anyone who has ever served in a leadership capacity. I would imagine that some members of Tom's ward/stake probably went to their bishop to discuss "their" concerns, and that the Bishop would've had to counsel with them. It's the journey and the other people I find interesting, not the fact that Tom came back into the Church.

This is a similar article, but different. https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865688689/Gay-brother-of-Mormon-apostle-shares-his-spiritual-journey.html I wanted to highlight this particular paragraph: This should be an interesting program to watch.

"We could go camping this summer," was Tom's tentative suggestion. "We haven't nearly enough slates to cover the roof," said Tom, realising the project was futile.